SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

First boat *want ad*, reality check please

5K views 19 replies 13 participants last post by  lawdawg 
#1 ·
Hello, We are looking for a sailboat to liveaboard year round in Boston and could use everyone's advice and guidance. Here's the rundown:

Sailing exp: limited, some local dinghy lessons in CA years ago and a couple of trips on a keelboat
Children: 2-year old and 3-month old
Purpose of boat - liveaboard first, and "one day I'm gonna" cruise. Coastal cruising, but don't want to rule out bluewater.

Non-negotiables:
Sufficient storage space for living aboard as a family
Sleeping accomodations: minimum 2 double berths (one needs to be
divided into 2); other options based on this thread: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/cruis...angement-really-works-living-aboard-kids.html
1 double + 2 quarters
3 cabins (ideal)
We are looking for 38 - 42 feet to accomodate our family. I know families have done it on 30' boats, but I'm not sure we are that family. Also, a little worried that we may have a hard time getting insurance for something that big as first time buyers.
Fiberglass hull - no wood or steel
Must be in good enough condition to sail - can't be a handyman's special.

Important:
Less than 6 ft draft
Mast less than 55' tall, for bridge clearance
Moderate cruising boat, but it needs to be sturdy
Rudder needs to protect prop shaft

Nice to have:
Cutaway keel preferable, fin acceptable - don't want a racer, or bolted keel, or centerboard
Prefer a sloop or cutter (as opposed to ketch), single mast
Good engine access and systems access for DIY fixing

Icing on the cake:
Composting toilet
Shower separated from rest of head (not a curtain)
Spinnaker sail for light winds
Less electronics on board
Good anchoring gear

Timing: from spring closing to whenever we find the right boat. We are
committed, but have no specific deadline.

Some boats we're looking at on yachtworld:
C and C landfall 38
Whitby 42
Pearson 422 or 424 - out of our price range
O'Day 38 - 40
Morgan 38
Cheoy Lee 39
Endeavor 40
Gulfstar 41
1970s or 80s boat may be good vintage

Ok, so that's what we've put down so far. Is this reasonable? What else should we consider in our requirements? Are we way out in left field? Let us have it (gently). Thank you in advance!
 
See less See more
#2 ·
My only advice has nothing to do with a particular boat. But as your kids grow, they'll develop social and recreational needs that may make this lifestyle difficult. I'm taking about sleepovers, birthday parties, soccer, tee ball... you get the idea. I'm not sure you and wife know yet the degree to which your priorities and lives are going to change. It will be hard (and maybe some would say unfair) to deny your kids the activities all their friends will be involved with.

So my advice? Go for it, but do so with an eye towards being able to "get out of it" with relative ease... get a mainstream popular boat that will be (relatively) easy to re-sell.
 
#3 ·
First, it'd really help if you had a rough budget in mind... that will eliminate/reduce what choices you have. I also recommend keeping 15-20% of the total purchasing budget aside for refitting, upgrading and modifying whatever boat you do buy.

I'd also ask how much actual sailing experience do you and your spouse actually have? Do you know whether you'll get seasick on a boat in a rolly harbor? You say you have a couple of trips on a keelboat, but that could mean a couple of daysails, so how much real time have you spent aboard?

Also, why are you limiting it to monohulls? There are a good number of small cruising catamarans that would probably be a good fit, if not a better fit than many of the monohulls you've listed. The Prout Snowgoose, the Gemini 105 Mc, etc. would give you at least as much interior living space and be far more comfortable at anchor than the monohulls.

I'd recommend you read the Boat Inspection Trip Tips thread I started, as it will help you determine whether any boats you look at are even worth going forward on, saving you the price of a survey on boats that aren't worth looking at further.
 
#6 ·
Lin and Larry Pardey have their third edition of Capable Cruiser published in 2010. They have a chapter “The Question of Cruising and Kids”. This is an upbeat chapter and is a description of various families with children with practical suggestions thrown in where appropriate. I will mention a few items from the chapter that might influence the choice of boats and cruising. “Boat size didn’t affect the kids we met”. “The very young cruising children we’ve met not only seem to thrive on board but also provide an instant attraction wherever they go…The relative healthiness of cruising children is amazing…safety is a far bigger worry with children afloat…only heard of this one drowning of a child…many young parents insist…children wear flotation vests constantly, morning to night…Once she could swim, we had to take our chances and teach her to be careful…Couples who have a child under three on board usually find that the husband has to sail as a singlehander while the wife works full time as mother and safety officer”. After age 14 children may want to start planning their own life. Parents who wish to enjoy sailing with children need a separate private space for each kid no matter how small. A dinghy for kids is recommended, especially one with sails. The book goes on about all the positive experiences of sailing with children. The book also has sections on boat selection, design, cost, insurance, medical, gear, safety, sails, tenders, outfitting, canvas care, steering failure, repairs at sea, safety aloft, keeping your lover, first time voyagers, communication, writing, photos, engine quitting, various problems sailing and anchoring.
 
#7 ·
I have been following sailboats on ebay for several weeks for boat length from 30 to 44 feet. There were 16 boats. Only three were sold and at low prices.
1982 Sabre 30', no bids, minimum opening bid $15,000.00, buy it now $24,900.00
1982 SHARP C&C 37' Reserve Not Met, 31 bids to $23,100 (claimed ready to sail)
1984 Bruce Roberts Mauritius 43ft cruising ketch, no bids, buy it now $75,000.00
1973 C&C Newport 41 no bids, buy it now $50,000 (minor repairs needed in cabin and the autohelm)
1975 PEARSON p30 Reserve Not Met 4 bids to $1225 (GEORGOUS)
1972 Ericson Flushdeck 39 no bids, buy it now $34,950.00 (claimed ready to sail)
1972 Grampian 34' Ketch boat angel ministries 32 bids went for $3,250
1975 Grampian 30' one bid went for $1,000 (claimed ready to sail)
1994 Morgan 38 (Reserve Not Met) 14 bids to $42,000
1987 hunter legend 40 1987 one bid at $48,000.00 reserve not met, buy it now $55,000.00
1982 BRISTOL 35.5 CENTERBOARD no bids, price starting at $40,000
1968 Hughes 38' MKI Sloop $25,000
1962 Lapworth 44 1962 Lapworth Sloop no bidsBuy it now $40,000.00
1980 Islander 36 no bids Buy it now $32,500
1970 Ohlson 38 opening bid $20,000 no bids (ready to sail)
1976 Hardin Seawolf 41 sold for $26,000 (needs bottom paint)
1982 Pearson 32 no bids starting price $22,000
 
#9 ·
Thank you all for your replies.

hriel1 - Yes, we will be mindful of when it *no longer works* for us or our children and make adjustments accordingly, even if it means moving back to shore.

Sailingdog - We are looking under $40k, which eliminates most catamarans. I would *love* a catamaran, but we also don't want to pay for double slip fee at the marina. Maybe we get a smaller starter boat and someday move up to a catamaran (though DH is resisting the starter boat idea). I've looked at the Boat Inspection Trip Tips. It is invaluable, thank you for sharing this resource.

olson34 - we actually know that couple! Funny, they are fixing up a 45' unfinished boat because they will be starting a family soon. We'd like to stay in the 38-40 range, though.

Lakesuperiorgeezer - wow, it never occurred to me to look on eBay. We've looked at yachtworld, fsbo listings, and craigslist. Will add eBay to the mix. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'm going to check it out.

Justjon - Yes, we've been visiting the marina every other weekend to meet with people living aboard. There is a whole system of winterization including shrinkwrapping that we are learning about.

Thanks all!
 
#10 ·
To find out what you are getting into, look at Beth A. Leonard's The Voyager's Handbook, 575 pages that are 8 1/2 by 11 inches in size of rather small print with lots of pictures and tables. This book is well written and researched and covers just about everything in boats the size you are considering. The first chapters cover purchasing and fitting out a boat and would be well worth the price I think for just those chapters.
 
#12 ·
One word of warning with eBay... most of the boats sold on eBay that I've seen were AS IS... and not subject to survey or seatrial. This is really not a good idea, since you're far more likely to get a boat with serious problems that devalue it, if not giving it an actual negative value.

BTW, with a budget of under $40k, many of the boats in the 38-40' range you'll look at will be in rather poor shape overall, and many will be in need of some major refitting. It is difficult to live aboard a boat and refit it at the same time, especially if you have children and do not have a house or condo to fall back on. I would highly recommend working to increase your boat buying budget a fair bit, especially if you want to get a boat in the 38-40' LOA range.

While you don't need what Maine Sail calls a two-percenter boat, one that has been meticulously maintained, you probably do want to get one that doesn't need any major work, especially interior work, and has an interior you can live with. I'd point out that a two-percenter 35' boat sold recently for over $60,000.

I'd also point out that buying a "boat angel" boat is probably also a really bad idea. Those boats are also sold "AS IS", and many have an actual negative worth.
 
#13 ·
What and Where to Buy

One word of warning with eBay... most of the boats sold on eBay that I've seen were AS IS... and not subject to survey or seatrial. This is really not a good idea, since you're far more likely to get a boat with serious problems that devalue it, if not giving it an actual negative value.
Never buy any boat sight unseen. I have emailed people on ebay who are selling a boat and arranged to inspect the boat. Ebay does allow you to email the seller. I am attracted to ebay because I believe this is where you will find the lowest prices when a person really has to sell. You might also arrange for a surveyor to drive by and have a quick look for for less than a full inspection. There are a few folks here on sailnet who may look at a boat for you that is in their area. There's a thread on it somewhere in sailnet. As for boats to consider, check this thread: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-...fshore-cruising-boat-list-january-2008-a.html
Sources for boats for sale:
Latitude38.com
sailboatlistings.com
yachtworld.com
craigslist
ebay
sailquest.com
marinesource.com
boattrader.com
 
#14 ·
That E-39 referenced in the earlier thread belongs to a friend of mine. Good boat, altho you would have to add shipping to move it to the right coast...
He is selling because he bought a much bigger boat.
Unlike some you hear about, that particular boat is ready to go sailing.

LB
 
#15 ·
I live in Boston as well and I have always wanted to cruise away as you dream about. The big question is, do you currently have a boat and how much do you know not only about sailing a boat, but also the endless task of keeping a boat? My Dad maintains a 25' sailboat at each of his homes(2) and there are times when it is a full time job. (fortunately he's retired and needs a job) My plan is to research and buy my first boat, something smaller than the one I take over the horizon, and then use owning that boat to make my mistakes and learn how to solve various problems before I retire into a bigger boat later on.
 
#16 ·
The kids would be my primary concern. At their current ages, you pretty much tow them around as you see fit. Very shortly, they will tow you around. Keeping a permanent eye on toddlers is impossible. Considering the number of backyard pool accidents with young kids, I would be nervous effectively having an unprotected moat surrounding my house and the walkway up to it. Most young kids keep PFDs on, but that isn't practical when its your 24/7 home. In fact, my marina requires all very young kids (forgot the exact age) to have a PFD on at all times on the docks. I suspect that rule was written after an accident.

You've recognized above that it may not work as well when the kids get older. You didn't say if they are the same gender or not. From experience, young kids of opposite genders are not going to be able to share a room, after the oldest gets to about 12. The conflict starts well before that. 3 cabins would be mandatory in my mind. Oh, and the kids cabins better be identical !
 
#17 ·
Try before you Commit

I am in the Boston area too and wish I could convince my wife to live aboard. I have talked to many people who are doing this and Constitution Marina in East Boston seems to be the best place for winter live a boards. Some people I have talked to, spend the winters there and move down to places like Hingham for the summer.

My biggest suggestion is to try living a board with the kids before you commit. At Constitution Marina they have a bed and breakfast were you stay on a boat. Bed and Breakfast, on a boat! They have a number of sailboats you could try.

As far as the boat, I would not be so quick to rule out Catalinas. While they are not typically the potential blue water boat that you may want, you can get a lot more boat for the money and they usually have great resale value. You could learn to sail on the Catalina, make your mistakes, then sell the boat and move up to the blue water boat.

Of the boats you listed, my preference would be the C&C landfall. We had a C&C before our current Catalina. They seem to be well built and have reasonably good access for maintaining most systems.

Also, when it is time to buy, I highly recommend Peter Hunt as a surveyor. We used him on our Catalina 310. He was great. Took the entire day and wouldn't leave until we were comfortable with the various system and explained everything from basic diesel maintenance (had a small out board on our last boat) to making sure we knew how to operate the radar.

Which ever way you go, good luck. Hope to see you on the water this spring.
 
#18 ·
For the record, my son grew up on a Gemini 105Mc for the first four years of his life and socializes just fine. There are no social norms he is kept from. I think actually raising kids on a boat gives them a better look at the world rather than letting them watch t.v. or play video games for hours a day. Aside from that... I would say a Gemini 105Mc or a Used Leopard are good starter boats for living aboard. They are relatively inexpensive and safe to sail on. I have an article on my website about living aboard based on my own experience for anyone pondering the idea. It is at Suenos Azules dot com. Fair winds...
 
#19 · (Edited)
As far as the boat, I would not be so quick to rule out Catalinas. While they are not typically the potential blue water boat that you may want, you can get a lot more boat for the money
I'd second that. Catalinas are great boats. I also would not worry too much about the blue water part. The reality is that the vast majority of people with sail boats do not use them in a truly blue water fashion. The reality is the a very few cross an ocean. Very few.

I recommend buying the boat that suits you now. Your needs will definitely change as your experience and the children grow. Your opinion of what you need will also change. Guaranteed. As the father of a 16 year old daughter who has been on the water since 3 mos, I speak from experience.

Stuffing 4 people on a 40' monohull during a New England winter is ...... challenging.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top