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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Crew Blues
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Thread: Crew Blues Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-21-2006 04:19 PM
hellosailor Some interesting stuff there guys, thanks for posting it.

I'm a bit confused by the unspoken questions of "Crew" as in, paid crew, versus the casual and incorrect "Crewing" as in sailing unpaid on a boat. When money changes hands, whether it is a share or a training payment, etc. that does change everything.
Crew. Passengers. Cargo. Supercargo. And a few more precise nautical terms that don't belong in a PG13 forum, right?
07-21-2006 09:28 AM
Surfesq Eric: Not trying to give you a hard time. Just trying to let you know how to protect yourself from liability. I agree that if you are just bringing people along for a passage you don't need paperwork.
Sailinaway: I think you have proven my point.
07-20-2006 09:21 PM
kimberlite
surfesq-additional

Hi,
i re read the recent posts on this topic and have a few comments.
First- I am THE Captain- but i have never had to use those words with anyone i have ever sailed with. ( it kind of like saying it my ball so you play by my rules).
I gain my "power" as captain by experience, calmness, ( i have NEVER raised my voice on any boat ever), example ,and respect of my crew.

i mention the points about smoking and drinking as many of my crew come from as far as the west coast (we being in europe, the caribbean, or east coast).
it would be unfortunate for a crewperson to show up in france facing a trans atlantic trip having a serious smoking/drinking habit and not be able to smoke or drink.
this is therefore mentioned as a courtesy.

the matter of the $400-
i sail frequently with a new crew members who i have never met.
even though we are all in the sailing fraternity, i do not leave Cash sitting out in plain sight. If i am sailing with old crew then i will leave all my stuff out. After all when i am sleeping ,the crew on watch has my life in their hands, a little more valuable than 400 bucks.

with respect to crew retention, i have had about 30 crewmembers who have come from either OPO or the internet and my difficulty now is who to pick for my next passage and not where i am i going to find crew.

as a final note. i use the crew agreement only once with a crewmember.
after that, on future passages, we are friends and understand each other.
Fair winds,
eric
07-20-2006 08:57 PM
kimberlite
Crew Agreement--SURFESQ

Dear Surf Esq,
first let me say that the agreement that i use is published by Offshore Passage Opportunities and is their Standard agreement for a passage.
it is used by about 500 boat owners. I never charge anyone for a passage on my boat or even have them share expenses therefore i am performing legally as a captain not charging for a passage..
i don't know where you got that idea that i charged for anything.

Incidentally my sons and grandchildren do sail with me.

I do not need this agreement for short trips only trips that are over 7 days non stop. I now have some 40,000 bluewater miles using this contract and have not had a complaint from any crewmember or ever have had to ask a
crewmember to leave.

additionally i have about 47 years sailing in local waters and a number of trans atlantic passages. all without crew problems.
therefore, what is wrong with spelling out what is required of a crewmember on a passage.
Fair winds,
eric
07-20-2006 02:00 PM
administrator I will ask those of you who are getting passionate to remain passionate but let's tone down the rhetoric a few notches. Let's not forget that we're all here because of a love of sailing and with fuel prices being what they are we should love it more as every week goes by and the prices at the pump rise.

Please treat each other with the respect and courtesy with which you would like to be treated.

Remember, respect for the individual is vital.

thanks so much

Jeff
Your Humble Forum Slave.
07-20-2006 01:34 PM
Dewey Benson Sailinaway!

In your initial post, I raised an eyebrow when I heard you use the expression "Cherries" in reference to your inexperienced crew. Now I understand.

Dewey
07-20-2006 12:29 PM
sailnaway Why don't you people go over to Latts and Atts where they bash people all the time with name calling. You are a bunch of gutless punks and I am glad your not my crew. How is it that some morons can turn a simple thing like this post into a pissing contest. This is exactly why I don't go to Latts and Atts this has been a traditional sailing site for real sailors for a long time gusee its time for me to move on because if I wanted to hear from an ass I would have farted. Maybe the crew will fill in the missing spaces. And when you call someone gutless you need to know first who your talking to. Seven years and nine months in the Marine Corps a tour of duty in Viet Nam and a comission I think makes me at least part of the man that I am. So when you have been use to telling people this is what you need to do and you give them three weeks of that same training and they don't get it right then it is a problem.
As for the playing captain I don't play I am the Captain and like I said no piece of paper makes you the captain but it may be a lisc to learn. This post is finished.
07-20-2006 06:26 AM
Surfesq I AM THE CAPTAIN DAMN IT!!!!

Those poor people. You are running a scam not a saililng school. You have no right to use unsuspecting people to serve your fantasy. Look, I am sorry I was the one guy who didnt help you cry in your beer over the pocket change you clearly misplaced. (Either that or they decided they deserved a refund). But my instincts proved correct. One difference...I would not have rolled away in a cab. I would waited for you, (heartily contragulated you)(Happy Mr. Admin Guy?)and then left.

As for you believing that you know more about sailing than I do...thats just rich thanks for the laugh. I do have a "clew" lol.

Look, do yourself and any potential victim a favor. Stop trying to run a sailing school off your daysailor. You obviously do not have not have the expertise or the temperament for it. If you are such an old salt get your license and get your "school" accredited with the ASA you ( really great guy)..(edited by request).

As for the rest of you listen up. Being old does not necessarily make you smarter as evidenced by our friend here. The ability to teach sailing comes from several factors. 1. You have taken lessons such as ASA training so you have a sense of what goes into teaching. 2. You have people skills 3. You have lots of actual experience. (Not just motoring or sailing your own boat but crewing on other boats in ocean races or long passages with other more experiened sailors). 4. You are accredited.

If you really want to do something like this get the experience that is required. Try teaching at a place like Maryland Sailng School (An offshore school on the Bay). In other words, put the time into doing this just like you would to become a CPA or whatever.
07-20-2006 03:57 AM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnaway
I ask them to pay nothing but to supply their own food drinks ECT. I paid the tab for marinas fuel and all other cost. It took two months to ready the yacht for this trip. Lots of planning and making sure that everything was in as good of shape as it could be to ensure the crews safety which is a captain’s duty. This was to be a working learning cruise not a pleasure cruise and that was set in stone from the” get go”. I sail like people walk in the park I am very forgiving due to my ability to sail single handed and the only thing that got on edge was me having to check our course every two hours for a month. No sleep will do that to you and finding people off course by several miles over and over was a safety issue which as the captain I had to address. Oh and the missing $400 was a real drag, I am not pointing any finger at anyone but it did not walk off the boat buy its self. For the most part they were ok but if you have a problem with something you speak up that’s what a crew is suppose to do not hide feelings. It was my job to teach them seaman ship not baby sit them. A captain that becomes lax in his authority soon looses control of his crew. As far as all this Captains liscence crap I have seen so many captains with a certificate that could not sail out of a harbor let alone cross an ocean that it makes me sick. Captain’s liscence should only be given to experienced captains not computer junkies. And I would like to say that respect for the captain is part of seamanship. In closing the thing to do would be to have waited till I returned to the boat before departing. If the waited ten minutes more it would not have been a big deal. I was one hundred yards from the boat walking as fast as in could in 100 + temperatures when they rolled past me in a cab. So between the 38 year old smoker huffing two packs a day and missing money and doing without my favorite cruising juices I think they had it easy Could have raised all kinds of hell but I let it slide since the three of them were not well suited for each other I figured why make it worse. So if you tell someone it’s a working cruise and they don't work well I guess that makes you a grouchy old man. I sail like a true sailor I keep to tradition when I can and so if you need a contract bugger off mate. I have no use for whining even if I do my share of it that ticks me off to. So the sea is my home, don’t pollute it with your legal crap. Be a sailor not a lawyer.
First off, it doesn't sound like you did a whole lot of teaching of seamanship. If you're planning and preparation took two months, then why did you not have the proper supplies of drinks in store? And if it was their duty to supply their own food and drink....why didn't you make sure they did so... after all—you were the captain.

It also sounds like you were too gutless to confront them, regardless of what kind of face you put on your actions right now. Even if they weren't being paid, or paying to crew aboard your ship, preparation for a 30-day working voyage is not something that they sound like they were able to properly plan for... and apparently you gave them no such assistance in that area. If they were responsible for their own food and drinks, taking yours is nothing less than theft... as is the missing money.

It doesn't really sound like the crew had any respect for you...and given your whining about the way the cruise turned out, I'm not completely surprised. You say you have no use for whining, but isn't that exactly what your original post is all about...

Before I am sailing with anyone new, even if for just a day, I make sure to meet them first—or they have to have someone I trust vouch for them. I also make sure to find out if they have any specific food allergies, dietary requirements, or preferences if I can. This goes a long way to making sure that the meals are at least going to be shared, and that they do not starve. It also goes a long way to weeding out the riff-raff and the slackers.

I also have a very strict no-smoking policy aboard my boat. If they smoke, they're not welcome to do so aboard. Even my friends who do smoke, respect me enough to abide by my policy, and do not light up on-board.

I generally will provide food and drinks for my crew, while aboard the boat. Off the boat, they're on their own. If they have a preference, and haven't voiced it prior to the trip...and don't like the selection of drinks and food...well, then they're on their own again. I give them every opportunity to do so...and if they don't—that's their own fault, and they have to pay the price for it.

My boat is far too small for me to put up with crap from anyone on...and I don't. It is MY BOAT...so it goes by MY RULES.
07-20-2006 01:00 AM
sailnaway
Give a crap for some legal papers

Surffeq or what ever your name is you don't have a clew about cruising do you. You really donít have a word worth listing to on this matter because you express your lack of knowledge about the sea in your post. 30 days most of it off shore is not a weekend by the bay.
I ask them to pay nothing but to supply their own food drinks ECT. I paid the tab for marinas fuel and all other cost. It took two months to ready the yacht for this trip. Lots of planning and making sure that everything was in as good of shape as it could be to ensure the crews safety which is a captainís duty. This was to be a working learning cruise not a pleasure cruise and that was set in stone from theĒ get goĒ. I sail like people walk in the park I am very forgiving due to my ability to sail single handed and the only thing that got on edge was me having to check our course every two hours for a month. No sleep will do that to you and finding people off course by several miles over and over was a safety issue which as the captain I had to address. Oh and the missing $400 was a real drag, I am not pointing any finger at anyone but it did not walk off the boat buy its self. For the most part they were ok but if you have a problem with something you speak up thatís what a crew is suppose to do not hide feelings. It was my job to teach them seaman ship not baby sit them. A captain that becomes lax in his authority soon looses control of his crew. As far as all this Captains liscence crap I have seen so many captains with a certificate that could not sail out of a harbor let alone cross an ocean that it makes me sick. Captainís liscence should only be given to experienced captains not computer junkies. And I would like to say that respect for the captain is part of seamanship. In closing the thing to do would be to have waited till I returned to the boat before departing. If the waited ten minutes more it would not have been a big deal. I was one hundred yards from the boat walking as fast as in could in 100 + temperatures when they rolled past me in a cab. So between the 38 year old smoker huffing two packs a day and missing money and doing without my favorite cruising juices I think they had it easy Could have raised all kinds of hell but I let it slide since the three of them were not well suited for each other I figured why make it worse. So if you tell someone itís a working cruise and they don't work well I guess that makes you a grouchy old man. I sail like a true sailor I keep to tradition when I can and so if you need a contract bugger off mate. I have no use for whining even if I do my share of it that ticks me off to. So the sea is my home, donít pollute it with your legal crap. Be a sailor not a lawyer.
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