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ignition

4K views 15 replies 7 participants last post by  thekeip 
#1 ·
Ok, so i wasnt getting spark. new cap and rotor--then i was getting spark to the points but couldnt get it to arc from the plugs. new ignition coil solved that (the old one must have been weak-so if you ever have fire at the points but its week it very well may be the coil).

now im getting plenty of spark, but i believe the points are intermittently grounding out. any tips?
 
#6 ·
Is there an external or is it internal (built into the coil) resistor and did you replace it w/ the same type?

Is the cap and rotor the same brand? (some brands don't work together w/ the air gap)

Did you change the "condenser" w/ the points?

Are the point wire/s clear of grounding out?

Are the batteries fully charged?
 
#7 ·
i think the point wires may not be clear, the replacement set didnt have that extra nut as the original, so i had to fiddle with the original and think that may be the problem, but am having trouble getting them right.
 
#9 ·
after messing with the points the grounding problem has stopped.....

but....

ive got plenty of fire in the cap, but i have no idea why between the cap and the plugs there remains a problem, as i cant get the plugs to spark?!? now the moyer marine manual suggests w/no plugs attached getting the coil wire to spark, i dont understand why this would be any diff. than the plugs. i have new wires and plugs, and again plenty of fire at the point... im confused :confused:
 
#10 · (Edited)
1st, the plugs need to be grounded via the hex or threads and then you should see a tiny "blue" spark at the electrode. Personally, I like to hold it and jump j/k

2nd, the points will show a spark as they complete the circuit (goes to ground) and energizes (fires) the coil (primary coils) so it sparks (secondary coils), but that spark (points) isn't the spark you see at the plugs.

If the coil wire is sparking when it's close to a ground (needs an air gap/space) and is in fact firing when it's turning over, then the cap/rotor distance is usually too far apart. Matching a cap/rotor brand is very important.

A bad condenser can also cause this problem if it's a weak spark.

On top of all that, did you turn the distributor? (I hope not) That would also cause it not to fire properly. If that's the case, line up the timing mark on the front pulley/dampener w/ #1 (usually) on firing position and see if the rotor is pointing at that plug wire position. (just needs to be close)
 
#11 ·
thanks Mac, i think you maybe right, as we switched back to the old condenser and points which were creating hella fire...however we used the old rotor but new cap. i bet you are right on that rotor/cap tolerance being off. heck, now those points are set perfectly im gonna drop the old cap on. i bet the problem was a combo/points off and the weak coil referenced above. thanks for the tip, ill tell you how it works out.
 
#13 ·
After being in the Hogg bissness over the years ...you would be suprized how many COILS are "bad in the box" this is not to say a bad one wouldnt start & run an engine ... Just that new in box mesurements with the correct meters I found 1 in 14 that was perfect ...and yes the store will sell all of them , go figure....

Plenty one can do to a cap & roter bug to make them better parts ... but would take wayyyy to long to say here ....just to be simple here .. keep an old cap cut it in half or so just so you can see the bug strike buy the pole & allways pick a bug that comes closer to the pole without hitting it ...

Plenty of little things to do to help old type engs....if you can find another bug that fits great and has same dim. ( even tho it is for another eng) it may have a longer arc shaped striker play with it and you might be suprized how well your eng runs with it ...normally this would add + or - timeing by 2-4* and a longer spark burning time for better fuel burn...just make shure the burn doesn't continue into the intake valve opening phase..

Ok thats enough info to help most & to get the rest into trouble ,,,, after all these are simple engines and playing with them and knowing them will go a long way to helping them.....after all thay were mass produced & everything was left short & loose just for that reason ( which doesn't mean we cant clean some of that up ) ;)

For the ppl who think everything was designed and built as close to perfect as possible when produced ....Disregard this post your mindset can't be changed lol
 
#14 ·
havent solved her yet... the replacement points i got have a plastic doo dad for the wire--as opposed to the 'nut' on the original. im going to order a new set from moyer. the old ones are clicking, but while set just right, they are slightly askew. may get a cap/rotor from them while im at it. my mech buddy who is helping me just had rotator cuff surgery so is out of the loop for a bit. ill keep you posted. i also found a 'mystery wire' the PO installed that is not on any schematic i have! the joys of trying to get inside the mind of a PO (an obvious loon)
 
#15 ·
Did you replace the heavy insulated cable between the coil and rotor and rotor and spark plug. Often the insulation breaks down and the spark is lost to an earth on the metal body. It can be intermitent depending on the positioning of the plug lead.
 
#16 ·
One of the things that you need to check...most easily done if you have a voltmeter installed on your engine control panel...is that there is electrical activity at the panel at all when the engine quits. Often, VERY often in fact, the ignition switch fails...not the coil. You can see if that's the case just by looking at the meters. Sometimes you can "correct" the problem by jiggling the switch a little. No activity at the panel, no activity at the coil either.
Howard Keiper
Berkeley
 
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