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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Child of the Year
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Thread: Child of the Year Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-28-2011 04:37 PM
chrisncate
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
Hey kids ... look at the sheeple aimlessly wonder where they are directed.

You talking to me?
01-28-2011 02:13 PM
CapnBilll SMack has some good points, before puberty a child need parental supervision. Regardless of what either the child or the parents think. The law is the final arbritrator for these things. But The laws in a particular country mey be based on something other than common sense, (I.E. labor laws that prevent teens from competing for jobs with unskilled labor, but in fact cause the teens to have to work for free and increase explotation).
I was just pointing out that a 16 year old is physically an adult. Just as a 40 year old is physically an adult. Either may have the same maturity emotionally, and or the same degree of sailing experience. At some point there has to be a limit. And just as we don't allow unlicensed drivers to race cars at Indy, and the law requires minimum age to drive be 16. Sailing out of parental supervision should make a similer age restriction. I just don't agree that it should be over 18, (or 21), (25?).

Just to add fuel. There was a case recently in Brazil where a 9 year old girl wanted to be the parade leader. After endless court hearings and lawyers, about how sexy the parade was and is this child being exploited, the parents got the right to have their daughter lead the parade. She got 3 blocks and ran in to the crowd crying leaving the parade leaderless.

The moral of this is a child, (pre-adolescent), cannot act in the capacity of an adult). The voyage of a preteen child who may be the most skilled sailer in the world, will likely fail. Not because of a sailing mistake, but something simple failing of a child without a parent. Forgetting to eat properly, not getting enough sleep, leaving the lights or oven on, etc... I'm not afraid of a 9 year old leaving me to shame. They are simply not capable of maintaining managment of their own household independently over the course of several weeks. A teenager though watch out. Their sharper, and quicker than us. The only advantage we have is experience, (if we have that).
01-28-2011 12:06 PM
HeartsContent Hey kids ... look at the sheeple aimlessly wonder where they are directed.

01-28-2011 11:47 AM
smackdaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
I don't. I leave it to Judge Dredd to decide.



But I do think that you cannot apply a blanket "neglect" judgement to all underage circumnavigators parents, regardless of what a law might say about age.
That's probably true. The Dutch courts, for example, found that Dekker could go at 15 (I think?) but not 13. Prior to that they had to step in and temporarily take that choice away from the Dekkers. So every country, every court will probably differ.

My point is that, regardless, the law will dictate "age of majority" and "parental neglect". That's the blanket to be used for judgement - like it or not. And I hold that that blanket is a good thing - especially in a world full of bonehead parents.

If it's legal, send your kid off into the briney by herself. No worries. If it's not, go with her and have a great time with your minor child on a huge adventure. Screw the "records". Pretty simple really.
01-28-2011 11:26 AM
chrisncate
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
If your child is a dependent minor as defined by law and you send him/her on a multi-month voyage around the world, solo, in conditions that will most likely be life threatening at some point, especially if it's all for a "record"....jail, or at least loss of parental rights, makes perfect sense.

How do you define parental neglect?
I don't. I leave it to Judge Dredd to decide.



But I do think that you cannot apply a blanket "neglect" judgement to all underage circumnavigators parents, regardless of what a law might say about age.
01-28-2011 11:10 AM
smackdaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisncate View Post
Smack, I think that's a bit extreme? Jail for all?

I thing SD had it when he pointed out the obvious: Some 16 year olds have "done it right", and others (A Sunderland for example) have clearly done it wrong and dangerously.
If your child is a dependent minor as defined by law and you send him/her on a multi-month voyage around the world, solo, in conditions that will most likely be life threatening at some point, especially if it's all for a "record"....jail, or at least loss of parental rights, makes perfect sense.

How do you define parental neglect?
01-28-2011 10:52 AM
chrisncate Smack, I think that's a bit extreme? Jail for all?

I thing SD had it when he pointed out the obvious: Some 16 year olds have "done it right", and others (A Sunderland for example) have clearly done it wrong and dangerously.
01-28-2011 10:37 AM
smackdaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnBilll View Post
At first in this discussion I was under the impression this girl was an elementary schooler. The discussion makes it sound like she is barely out of toddlerhood. Need I remind you most humans reach biological maturity by the age of 14, and in fact go through puberty by age 12. Until modern laws redifined adulthood, ( and societal pampering created 30 year old babies), Young men and women were expected to make steps toward their future careers in their teens. (apprenticeship, or even marriage).

She is 16 years old, adult in every way except recent law. The age when most take their first job, when historically, and even in most countries outside Europe and US, quit school and begin supporting their families.

While I had some some concerns, the same concerns I would have if a woman in her 20's would undertake such an endeavor. This is hardly as case of a "child" acomplishment. I would limit this post puberty.
See - this is the crux of the whole debate. I don't care what someone "feels" about what is "too young"...it's purely about the law. Those in this thread that can't believe someone would have a problem with a "14 year old, mature beyond her years" doing whatever she wants to do are completely ignoring the legal aspect of what constitutes a minor, and in light of that, what constitutes parental responsibility/neglect.

Bottom line? Good on Jessica for getting a cool medal. Now, if her age at the time of the attempt was legally defined as a minor? Her parents should be in jail. Same for the Sunderlands, same for the Dekkers, same for the Perhams.

If the kid is underage, they should not be allowed to go...legally....period. This youngest around crap needs to stop.

Otherwise, one should spend their energy changing the law - not trying to make some emotional case as for why it's okay to circumvent it.
01-28-2011 10:33 AM
rikhall I love this group. How we ramble and digress:
  • was - Child of the year
  • was - Young Australian of the Year
  • was - circumnavigating in general
  • now - about Abby
How about the age we push kids to be the best in the world in:
  • hockey,
  • tennis,
  • figure skating,
  • gymnastics . . .
Is 15 too young, 12, 8, turning pro at 5??

Come on you guys - we can take this anywhere we want. And besides, it is too cold to go work on my boat.

But, I fly to Toronto in 3 and a half hours to sit through three days of safe boating meetings.

Oh joy! But I will have my iPhone and will watch where this thread goes.

Shalom all

Rik
01-28-2011 09:31 AM
sailingdog nicely put.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Not to mention, Zac’s roundabout was a westabout Milk Run via the Panama Canal, whole different ballgame than Abby’s route via the Southern Ocean/Great Capes…

Make no mistake, I give Abby a lot of credit to have made it as far as she did, she’s obviously a pretty tough cookie… However, the entire stunt should serve as a cautionary tale to any passagemaker, the poor choice of a boat relative to her minimal offshore experience, the rush to meet a departure deadline and astonishing absence of shakedown time, her lack of familiarity with the boat and its systems, her dependence upon her shore team and sat phone, and on and on - it was truly a disaster waiting to happen… In the end, she is very lucky to be alive…

Always a lot of sheer luck involved in such an endeavor, as well… A single wave amid a trackless expanse of ocean can spell the difference between success, and disaster… As we have recently seen with what happened to Jeanne Socrates – a sailor of vastly more experience than Abby, in a very well-found vessel far more suitable than WILD EYES, and being sailed very prudently – such a voyage can easily come to grief in that part of the world, it’s often little more than a crapshoot down there…
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