SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > Forereaching?
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Thread: Forereaching? Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
02-02-2011 05:02 AM
centaursailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
+1.

Especially when conclusions like this come out of the exhaustive resarch (from the JSD website):



St. Paul could have been the first Evangelical-Viking-American if only he'd had the JSD! Heh-heh.
Reckon the vikings would have had some intresting comments when they arrived and found St Brendan the voyager waiting for them.
Blessed voyageing.
02-01-2011 09:56 PM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by RXBOT View Post
I doubt many breaking waves get by the hurricane barrier in SD'S neighbourhood.
Something I'm grateful for every time there's a named storm.
02-01-2011 09:46 PM
RXBOT I doubt many breaking waves get by the hurricane barrier in SD'S neighbourhood.
02-01-2011 08:59 PM
smackdaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
Still, I'm a little skeptical about placing complete faith in any one engineer's theories, test results, and solutions. We could use a lot more of his systematic, thoughtful, and engineering-discipline based approach.
+1.

Especially when conclusions like this come out of the exhaustive resarch (from the JSD website):

Quote:
Conventional storm survival lore and literature is no longer necessary or pertinent.

With the help of the drogue; St Paul on his biblical voyage across the Great Sea could have safely made passage to Rome instead of being shipwrecked in the wilderness, and the spread of Christianity would have taken a different course. The settlement of the American continents might have been advanced by 400 years if the Vikings had the drogue. Their vessels, although ideal for fast coastwise voyaging, were hopelessly unsafe on the open sea under storm conditions. Since they were undecked, they could not lie ahull without swamping, and if they tried to run off they would surf and plunge into the next wave. The Viking ships had no structural bulkheads and would have split open like a pea pod on impact with the green water in the preceding trough.

With the help of the drogue, the Vikings might have been able to support their colonies in the New World.

So much for conjecture!
St. Paul could have been the first Evangelical-Viking-American if only he'd had the JSD! Heh-heh.
02-01-2011 07:52 PM
sailingdog IMHO, you might get standing waves in this type of scenario, but not massive breaking waves coming in from multiple directions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MC1 View Post
I've read Jordon's assertions that this doesn't happen, but I've wondered if that only takes into account straight-forward scenarios where a single storm progresses through an area in a fairly uniform direction. How about cases where storms have made sharp directional changes (some have even back-tracked on their own path) or where multiple storms have passed through an area from different directions in a short span of time, causing dangerously confused seas? Concerning sailing south of the equator, I've also read of cases of very large swells travelling up from the southern ocean and interacting with storm-tossed seas from a different direction to make them even more dangerous.

It's clear that Jordon did a lot to further the science on this issue and the series drogue has proven itself to be a very valuable device for storm management. Still, I'm a little skeptical about placing complete faith in any one engineer's theories, test results, and solutions. We could use a lot more of his systematic, thoughtful, and engineering-discipline based approach.
02-01-2011 07:28 PM
MC1
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
The idea that a breaking wave is going to be coming from a significantly different direction is a crock of sH!T. From what I've read, a lot of study has been done on this and it just doesn't happen. Don Jordan mentions this in some of his writings, and that's one reason the JSD works as well as it does, since it helps protects the boat from breaking wave strikes.
I've read Jordon's assertions that this doesn't happen, but I've wondered if that only takes into account straight-forward scenarios where a single storm progresses through an area in a fairly uniform direction. How about cases where storms have made sharp directional changes (some have even back-tracked on their own path) or where multiple storms have passed through an area from different directions in a short span of time, causing dangerously confused seas? Concerning sailing south of the equator, I've also read of cases of very large swells travelling up from the southern ocean and interacting with storm-tossed seas from a different direction to make them even more dangerous.

It's clear that Jordon did a lot to further the science on this issue and the series drogue has proven itself to be a very valuable device for storm management. Still, I'm a little skeptical about placing complete faith in any one engineer's theories, test results, and solutions. We could use a lot more of his systematic, thoughtful, and engineering-discipline based approach.
02-01-2011 07:06 PM
smackdaddy Except when the rudder breaks...but I digress....

As for multi-directional waves, isn't that what a confused sea is? Waves either stirred up in multiple directions by rotation due to a TD or hurricane, or waves bouncing off landmasses, etc.? Seems plausible to me in a crazy storm situation.

Along those lines, I'm still interested to hear the rest of the story on Nereida's capsize off Cape Horn. A JSD was in the mix - but it's not clear how and when.
02-01-2011 06:29 PM
sailingdog
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamLein View Post
IIRC, the Pardeys admit the possibility that a wave could come from an unexpected direction and break on them, and that that would be bad. I think the idea is that most breaking waves that are dangerous will be approaching from windward.
The idea that a breaking wave is going to be coming from a significantly different direction is a crock of sH!T. From what I've read, a lot of study has been done on this and it just doesn't happen. Don Jordan mentions this in some of his writings, and that's one reason the JSD works as well as it does, since it helps protects the boat from breaking wave strikes.
02-01-2011 05:39 PM
AdamLein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barquito View Post
Quote:
If a big (half your boat length or higher), steep, breaking wave hits you broadside or from the quarter, it really could care less whether the water next to your boat is slick or rough.
Possibly the sea anchor the Pardy's use would keep the boat in position relative to the waves. The slick produced would keep most waves from breaking through your windward portlights.
IIRC, the Pardeys admit the possibility that a wave could come from an unexpected direction and break on them, and that that would be bad. I think the idea is that most breaking waves that are dangerous will be approaching from windward.
02-01-2011 04:52 PM
Barquito
Quote:
If a big (half your boat length or higher), steep, breaking wave hits you broadside or from the quarter, it really could care less whether the water next to your boat is slick or rough.
Possibly the sea anchor the Pardy's use would keep the boat in position relative to the waves. The slick produced would keep most waves from breaking through your windward portlights.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:54 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.