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Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > Pacific Seacraft > Feathering Prop vs. Fixed Blade Prop
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Thread: Feathering Prop vs. Fixed Blade Prop Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-11-2011 08:52 AM
Maine Sail
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I cannot imagine why PS thinks that the transmission needs to be left out of gear. Its not like a car transmission with syncros which do not like to be shifted with the engine off. Actually race boats do this all the time. Typically the shaft is marked when the boat is out of the water so that you can locate the blade up position (mark both blades). When you want to center the blade, you put the transmission in neutral and then rotate the shaft with your hand (in the engine compartment) until the marks show teh blade is in the up position. Then you put the transmission in reverse. That locks the shaft on most marine transmissions.

Jeff

From that thread I posted a while ago:



We finally have a definitive statement from Yanmar on the proper gear position to use while sailing. According to the guy I spoke with this does not apply to hydraulic gear boxes or the few models that used Hurth/ZF.


.pdf File (LINK)


Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

If the customer desires that the propeller shaft not spin while sailing, either a folding propeller, shaft break, or other suitable device may be used. However, Yanmar accepts no responsibility for the selection, installation, or operation of such devices. Please also refer to Marine service advisory “MSA07-001_Yanmar Sail Drive Propeller Selection” for additional information.

If you have any questions regarding this advisory please contact a Customer Support representative.





Before folks ask, the reason for failure mode, as was describe to me, is that in reverse the clutch cones can chatter or vibrate against one another causing wear which eventually leads to slippage and a gear box re-build. Many already know how difficult a Kanzaki can be to get out of reverse after sailing with it locked.

Here's a quote from SBO:
Quote:
Originally Posted by glengrey
Unfortunately I can attest to the proper Yanmar gear position. In the summer of 2008 my transmission (Kansaki on a 3GM30F engine) started slipping. Engine had 440 hours. always placed gear in reverse when sailing. After considerable discussion with Yamnar they advised they would not consider warranty (was passed the hours for that anyway). Upshot is new transmission. They advised that the cone clutch does "quiver" (my term) even though locked into reverse, producing wear and eventually slippage. [b]

Also, I am trying to cover all the bases because I know how this thread will go as I have posted this TSB on other forums.

1) Yes, it mentions sail drives but this is in reference to another TSB bulletin.

2) Yanmar chose their words very carefully. They did not use words like "suggests", "may" or "might" they use and chose words like "requires", "must" and "will" these words are never chosen lightly in the world of manufacturing. I think the key wording is as follows:

"Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS: All Sailboat Engines"


"Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result."

P.S. Sailnet will not allow me to upload the .PDF file of the TSB if you want to see the actual document you can find it here.






Disclaimer:
I do not have a dog in this fight as I do not currently own a Yanmar. I post this because it is a topic that comes up often and Yanmar never addressed this well in their manuals. I know many have sailed for years locked in reverse with no problems but they have apparently had enough failures to warrant the strong language and publishing of this TSB..
02-11-2011 07:50 AM
teejayevans Interesting, I've always just put in in reverse. Usually I forget and once I'm sailing I'm NOT going to try to stop the spinning shaft. I never had to mark the shaft, the shaft coupler with bolts up/down indicates the prop is vertical (don't know if that's by design). When sailing in with this config, I never hear any chattering, the force seems constant but after an initial test when I went below, I haven't checked it since different conditions.
Tom
02-10-2011 06:23 PM
RainDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
I cannot imagine why PS thinks that the transmission needs to be left out of gear
Not PS, Yanmar.

This applies to (almost) all Yanmar engines regardless of the boat they are installed in.

The Yanmar service bulletin in the first post of the thread linked above explains why.
02-10-2011 06:11 PM
wsmurdoch Thanks for the link.

It looks like I will be getting used to the noise.

My wife will appreciate not doing the "put it in reverse, no that is not right, put it in neutral, now reverse, no that is not right, put it in neutral...." She will also positively glow saying it doesn't make us go faster anyway.

Bill Murdoch
02-10-2011 06:08 PM
Jeff_H I cannot imagine why PS thinks that the transmission needs to be left out of gear. Its not like a car transmission with syncros which do not like to be shifted with the engine off. Actually race boats do this all the time. Typically the shaft is marked when the boat is out of the water so that you can locate the blade up position (mark both blades). When you want to center the blade, you put the transmission in neutral and then rotate the shaft with your hand (in the engine compartment) until the marks show teh blade is in the up position. Then you put the transmission in reverse. That locks the shaft on most marine transmissions.

Jeff
02-10-2011 04:48 PM
RainDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsmurdoch View Post
Why does the transmission have to be left out of gear while sailing? I have not run across that in the Yanmar material that I have for my 3HM35F with a KBW 10-E clutch.
I got that from: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel...e-sailing.html
02-10-2011 04:27 PM
wsmurdoch
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
With the transmission on the PS boats you need to leave it out of gear while sailing.
Why does the transmission have to be left out of gear while sailing? I have not run across that in the Yanmar material that I have for my 3HM35F with a KBW 10-E clutch.

I have painted marks on the shaft between the coupling and gland that correspond to the two blades of my prop. I also have a mirror in the engine compartment that lets me see the marks through the opened door below the companionway steps. I look in while my wife shifts in and out of gear until we get the marks stopped in the right spot to have the propeller up and down. I think the boat goes faster; she does not. Both of us think it a lot less noisy and much easier to sleep when sailing at night with the propeller stopped.

Bill Murdoch
Irish Eyes
1988 PSC 34
02-10-2011 12:49 PM
RainDog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
There's no way the prop is going to stay vertical with the tranny out of gear. I think you'd need to install a shaft brake. Like I said, it's a PITA.
As I feared. I guess it is a freewheeling two blader for me.
02-10-2011 11:49 AM
Fstbttms
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainDog View Post
With the transmission on the PS boats you need to leave it out of gear while sailing. So part of the question is once it is vertical in line with the skeg, will it stay that way with the transmission disengaged. The other part is how do you get it vertical in the first place. Seems like taking it out of gear at exactly the right moment would be a low probability exercise, but I have not tried so maybe it is easier than I think.

I was hoping the anwer would be that with the transmission diengaged it will automatically line up with the skeg and stay that way.
There's no way the prop is going to stay vertical with the tranny out of gear. I think you'd need to install a shaft brake. Like I said, it's a PITA.
02-10-2011 11:46 AM
RainDog With the transmission on the PS boats you need to leave it out of gear while sailing. So part of the question is once it is vertical in line with the skeg, will it stay that way with the transmission disengaged. The other part is how do you get it vertical in the first place. Seems like taking it out of gear at exactly the right moment would be a low probability exercise, but I have not tried so maybe it is easier than I think.

I was hoping the anwer would be that with the transmission diengaged it will automatically line up with the skeg and stay that way.
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