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Go Back   SailNet Community > Boat Builders Row > C & C > C&C 34 mainsail shape problem
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Thread: C&C 34 mainsail shape problem Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-25-2011 09:06 PM
markandconnie We have a 1978 C&C 34 and do a bit of informal club racing. I have experienced the some occasional backwinding (new sails) under certain conditions. The 34 only has one genoa track and I have found that placing a snatch block on the toerail for the genoa sheet helps the sail trim in some wind conditions. You can also rig a barber haul to adjust the clew position in or out. I am going to add a second track outboard of the existing which will also allow both the staysail and genoa to have separate tracks when both headsails are up.

Mark
Spark
Lake Champlain
03-26-2011 07:12 PM
RichH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondinesail View Post
The main was totally backwinded in many of the puffs. But with the cart lower, we heeled less had less helm and drove well most of the race.
If the helmsman wasnt 'luffing-up' in the gusts instead of someone dropping/playing the traveller during the gusts .... The higher the wind speed the further the clew goes OUT from the centerline; the lighter the wind the more you close the 'slot distance' ... until you 'backwind' and speedo drop, then let it out a bit. Got ***barberhauler*** or inside/outside jib tracks??? Are you sure that your original problem with the main is that you ONLY using the 'inside jib tracks' (besides pulling the boom across to the windward side of the centerline)?

In high gusts forget the wheel, keep a fairly straight course, keep the boat on its feet by 'playing the traveller' to control-dump the main and the angle of heel ... much faster and the boat wont skid off to leeward because you've heeled too far over. If the helmsman is steering all over the place in a gust, the mainsheet/traveller trimmer and the jib sheet trimmers wont be able to 'follow' ... and 'control' will become a writhing bunch of snakes .... its the main trimmers job to keep the heel angle from becoming excessive, and if he/she cant do it then next the jib trimmer, ... and only when the trimmers cant do it .... THEN the helmsman as a last resort. In a heavy gust also too the apparent wind will slightly 'back' and the helmsman 'should' bear OFF slightly to match not go 'up' ... Up in the slows and down in the 'blows'.

Summary - its the mainsail trimmer's job (correctly working/playing the traveller) to keep the boat on a reasonable heel angle during gusts, etc., not the helmsman. If the helmsman overrides the mainsheet trimmer the boat will be slow and will skid off to leeward when the boat is 'overpowered', and the mainsail will then be seen to be 'backwinding' especially if the 'slot opening distance' isnt continually 'adjusted' (by mainsheet and jibsheet trimmers).

Also....
'windshifts and gusts': WINDSHIFTS ... clouds and gusts. - SailboatOwners.com
Shoreline and land effects: WINDSHIFTS - land & shoreline effects - SailboatOwners.com
Gusts and shifts, using the compass: WIND SHIFTS..... using the boat’s COMPASS to know WHEN to ta - SailboatOwners.com
03-26-2011 05:04 PM
ondinesail I can't recall off hand, I think its a 7:1 purchase. Let me check with the owner. But this is a real interesting idea. Basically though I think the bottom panel in the main is blown out and the genoa leads aren't wide enough for the the size of the jib. The baby stay and forestay tension adjustments we made helped some by getting proper bend in mast. Cart setting changes on the light 150 also helped a bunch. Thanks for the idea. Ribaut Cup next weekend. Tougher competition/longer course. New bottom paint. We shall see!
03-26-2011 01:30 AM
KeelHaulin What is your mainsheet configuration? On my C&C designed Newport 41 the 5:1 mainsheet needs to be tensioned with a winch to get it flat enough to not have a bubble in it along the luff. Many boats only have 5:1 with no winch to grind. If you can't get the mainsheet tension up you will need to tension both the mainsheet and the vang to help pull the sail flat.
03-08-2011 08:19 PM
ondinesail ZZ- we don't have a #2 or 3 yet.
Jack - we should have the cunningham rigged next race.

Cheers all
03-07-2011 12:37 PM
jackdale Really glad every thing seems to be getting better.

If the sail is going into the sailmaker, have them install a cringle for a cunningham.
03-07-2011 12:06 PM
zz4gta Sounds like you guys made some improvements. That's great. Around 15kts is the usual time to change to a #2 if you have it, depending on the boat. Does the owner have a #3?
03-06-2011 10:49 AM
ondinesail
Results from this weeks racing

Thanks to all the forum members for the suggestions. We had winds of 15kn gusting to 18kn yesterday. We first set up with an extra hard forestay, then added prebend with the baby stay to get about 1.5in, perhaps more at the masthead. This was half the range on the babystay and I figured we could add/subtract from there. Most of the bend appeared above the spreaders. Hoisting the main, we laid on max outhaul. We sailed under main alone for a bit and had much improved shape. We were not satisfied with the bottom panel on the main. The sail had been recut to accept full battens. It appeared that either the lower batten is too long or set in its pocket with too much tension. Either way there is too much draft in the lower panel. We tried a jury rig cunningham but it was inconclusive. A proper purchase is on order. Experiments with the vang were inconclusive. A better vang will be rigged next week, but the leech above the top batten may need some attention from the sailmaker. We left the prebend as set although a bit more than recommended by forum.

We tried several ideas from the forum on the genoa. We set the furling 150 which was too much sail for the conditions. If the roller furler had been rigged we would have been well to reduce to about a 110. But given the tools at hand, we moved the carts back as far as possible to flatten the sail getting improved performance as the sail became flatter. The draft moved substantially forward in the sail and the leech looked far better. We had good drive with the sail being trimmed a bit looser, as suggested. The main was totally backwinded in many of the puffs. But with the cart lower, we heeled less had less helm and drove well most of the race. The main should have been reduced to the first reef points in my opinion.

Owner took all this in (speedo and helm presure were obviously better). I had given him a copy of the materials from RichH and Jackdale. I think we are going to get better from here. One more frostbite race, then the boat gets hauled prior to the season's first race in in the sound.

Again I am very appreciative of all the suggestions and assistance.
03-06-2011 10:15 AM
ondinesail
Replying to Rich H re: tell tales

RichH
Regarding your two points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Most notable on the pics of your boat beating is the lack of tell tales .... You simply cant set up, shape up and race a boat without a FULL set up of tell tales

There is a picture of the boat reaching, not sure what you are looking at. I agree regarding tell tales. We need more tell tales and shape lines than we have on the sails. Its not my boat.

And as the other poster noted your genoa foot is too loose for the wind conditions --- the telltales would so indicate that.

In the picture, we had dropped the Light No 1 to about 3/4 height to help the spinnaker on this broad reach. Given our rating vs the balance of the fleet we need to fly every stitch we can. The foot will always be loose in such a partial hoist position unless I am missing something. :-)
02-27-2011 03:24 PM
ondinesail We had no wind and racing was cancelled yesterday. Will need to wait another week to try some of the suggestions all have offered.
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