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Bottom paint in N. Chesapeake

8K views 25 replies 10 participants last post by  Minnewaska 
#1 ·
I wondered if you Chesapeake sailers could weigh in on this one. I have a very small sail boat that I bought last year. It is 20+ years old. The boat was living in the Delaware River at the time it was purchased.

It has not one bit of bottom paint. I am guessing prior to its life in the Delaware it was someone's trailer sailer. I sail in the Bohemia River, mostly, and given the size of the boat, I'd be surprised if I ever make it past Turkey Point. The boat is in a slip 6 months of the year.

Does this boat need bottom paint? Do all in the water boats need bottom paint? I grew up sailing in the Great South Bay, and of course bottom paint was not optional.

Thanks!
Chris
 
#2 ·
I wondered if you Chesapeake sailers could weigh in on this one. I have a very small sail boat that I bought last year. It is 20+ years old. The boat was living in the Delaware River at the time it was purchased.

It has not one bit of bottom paint. I am guessing prior to its life in the Delaware it was someone's trailer sailer. I sail in the Bohemia River, mostly, and given the size of the boat, I'd be surprised if I ever make it past Turkey Point. The boat is in a slip 6 months of the year.

Does this boat need bottom paint? Do all in the water boats need bottom paint? I grew up sailing in the Great South Bay, and of course bottom paint was not optional.

Thanks!
Chris
If the boats going to be in the water 1/2 the year then yes you need bottom paint.

I've been using Pettit Hydrocoat and think it would be perfect for you since its waterbased making it less expensive and its easy to apply and clean up after. Its multi-season even after hauling out so you'd only have to paint every couple of years. I think it does loose some effectiveness after a haul out but I've never had any hard growth on the bottom. I usually have the bottom de-slimed by a diver once a season.

This on the Chesapeake 5 years at the Rappahannock and one a Herrington.
 
#3 ·
Yes you need the paint. I would go for an ablative. We have used Micron Extra for 6 years and actually have great results with it. First year great...secoind year good, but we have noticed it does not slough off the slime as well as it should,


I am thinking of switching over to Petit Ultima SR on recommendations of T37chef. The research I have done is that the self polishing of the ultima occurs at a slower speed than the micron extra and I shoulhave less problems with slime. ( I beleive West Marine uses this as a knockoff on one of their lines also somewhat cheaper.)

Check out Practical Sailor Tests for ratings at 6, 12, 18 months and 2 years.

Micros Exrtra/ Petit Ultima SR cant go worng here.

Dave
 
#4 ·
I keep a boat at Worton Creek, just south of the Sassafrass R. and Still Pond.

I would strongly advise the use of an ablative bottom paint, especially vs. the huge amount of barnacles that will attach if you dont.

The prevailing winds over the Chesapeake have changed in the past few years, changed to westerly from the normal southwesterly and the west winds dont 'turn over' the bay sufficiently .... and on the Northern Cheasapeake we now have a humongous slime and barnacle problem. I recently changed to Micron-extra since the Micron CSC doesnt do a good enough job of slime prevention ... with enhanced slime the barnacles have a much better chance to adhere to even ablative type paint. The Micron-extra retards the slime ... hence few barnacles.
 
#5 ·
deinfitely need bottom paint

I am also on the bohemia and my boat is covered with barnacle worse this year than last. I suspect that was because it was on the hard for a repair to the rudder and I think the pressure wash they did washed the abalive paint off. It was spotless in july when it was pulled on the sling.
 
#6 ·
Thanks, guys, this is what I thought (feared). Is there some reason why this is more expensive than reapplying? The quote I got was 450 and the boat is only 17 feet. I was thinking it was going to be $20/foot or something.

Any advice? And how does the yard figure out where the water line is going to BE?

Chris
 
#7 ·
Thanks, guys, this is what I thought (feared). Is there some reason why this is more expensive than reapplying? The quote I got was 450 and the boat is only 17 feet. I was thinking it was going to be $20/foot or something.

Any advice? And how does the yard figure out where the water line is going to BE?

Chris
Yes. Do-it-yourself. It's not difficult at all; for a boat your size, a few hours start to finish (2 coats, so this is spread over 2 days).

If you use an ablative paint and run it 2 years, you will not have to sand (other than a few loose spots), only recoat.
 
#8 ·
$450, particularly if that includes the paint, hauling and launching, does not sound unreasonable.

If you can get it out of the water onto a trailer or such, you could do it yourself. However, it is messy, a tad miserable and the weather may not allow it to be done on the day you have available. That's why people make a living doing it.
 
#9 ·
Minne is correct here, The cheapest place I have found to haul powerwash is $8 per foot or $285. Good paint is at least $175 per gallon. For my boat 35 ft boat that equates to 2.5 gallons which is 2 coats as well as some extra on the leading edge of the keel and rudder which is $525. This is an every other year expense. The power wash take of all my old ablative so not much prep is needed, however it has to be done in an enviro firendly pit. I also put a special paint on my prop and drive shaft. My expense without that is $700 for a 35 ft boat

One thing to do is have a diver go under it or quick haul and wash it in the middle of the season. The diver may become a thing of the past soon with the environmental concerns.

Your price seems quite reasonable

Dave
 
#14 · (Edited)
The diver may become a thing of the past soon with the environmental concerns.
Not likely. Because even the geniuses who determine water quality policy are waking up to the fact that it's not in-water hull cleaning activities that are the probem, it's the paint's load of toxin that is the problem. That toxin is leaching into the water 24/7, whether or not you have a diver clean your bottom. What is much more likely to happen is a move away from copper as an anti foulant and towards a different metal, like zinc. In areas of moderate or high fouling, in-water hull cleaning is a necessary part of boat maintenance (regardless of which paint is on the hull) and cannot be easily dispensed with.

FYI- Senate Bill 623 is before the state legislature in Sacramento right now. If adopted into law, it would prohibit the manufacture, sale and distribtion of copper bottom paints in California beginning 2015.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0601-0650/sb_623_bill_20110218_introduced.pdf
 
#10 ·
Applying ablative is quite easy and economical. A 17ft. boat should only require 2 quart maximum of a good ablative like Micron-extra. Consider that the yard charges $70-90 / hour to apply this ... and then usually 'slops' it on with a coarse roller resulting in a rough surface that enhances 'slime growth' and retards the 'release' when the boat is 'moving'.

If you apply the ablative with care, using a short-knapped 1/4" foam roller and get the ablative as-smooth-as-you-can ... it will 'release' the growth easier and will last much much longer (due to the reduced total surface area of the smooth surface).

An alternative for the low salinity / brackish Bohemia would be to coat the bottom with a Copper/PTFE (such as VC-17) and then simply use a 'squeegee' on a long pole once every 2 weeks to 'knock off' the growth ... if the slime growth is constantly removed it will minimize barnacle attachment. VC17 will last for MANY seasons in fresh or slightly saline conditions. The only problem with VC17 or Baltoplate, etc. or any PTFE based bottom paint is that it can not be applied over anyother bottom paint ... just over bare gelcoat, or barrier coat; plus you cant apply anyother paint on top of it.
Especially if this boat has a trailer and you do get humongous growth, just 'short haul' with the trailer and then occasionally power wash or scrub the bottom - VC17 can safely be power-washed (at reduced power) as its considered a 'hard' bottom paint.
If you select VC17, you may want to consider mixing a simple 'antibiotic' to the VC17 such as oxytetracycline (a veterinary anti-biotic) about 12-18 'pills' smashed and ground into a very very very fine powder and then mixed into the VC-17 before applying will take care of the slime for a long time; less slime = less barnacles.

;-)
 
#11 ·
I agree that bottom painting is a do it yourself task, that is once the bottom has been painted and you thus know where to apply the paint. That said it might be worth it to have them do the first time. I would not want to be the one taping the waterline for the virgin coat of paint as I have no idea how to go about doing that part of the job.

I do disagree that decent paint has to be over $175 a gallon. Hydrocoat is advertised at West Marine (not known as the low priced source) for under $140 a gallon and it is way better than decent. It's pretty darn good for the Chesapeake in my experience and its rated well in PS evaluations in the Chessy and FL as well.

The only reason I'm considering going to Ultima SR is the "SR". Hydrocoat doesn't have an anti-slime additive. Price will play a part in my decision though and if I think the Ultima is too high when I need paint, I'll have no qualms about sticking with Hydrocoat and having the bottom wiped down by a diver a couple of times a year.

I know plenty of owners paying for the expensive paint that still have their bottoms scrubbed a few times a year, so I'm not at all certain I'll see better results even if I decide to try the Ultima SR40.
 
#16 ·
I do disagree that decent paint has to be over $175 a gallon. Hydrocoat is advertised at West Marine (not known as the low priced source) for under $140 a gallon and it is way better than decent. It's pretty darn good for the Chesapeake in my experience and its rated well in PS evaluations in the Chessy and FL as well.

The only reason I'm considering going to Ultima SR is the "SR". Hydrocoat doesn't have an anti-slime additive. Price will play a part in my decision though and if I think the Ultima is too high when I need paint, I'll have no qualms about sticking with Hydrocoat and having the bottom wiped down by a diver a couple of times a year.
FWIW ... in the low-salinity of the upper Chesapeake 'most' of the bargain ablatives no longer seem to be offering adequate protection, especially in those areas that have low flow ... and that includes the Bohemia R. Only the top-shelf anti-slime ablatives seem to be 'working' well, such as Micron-extra, etc. and then, as with all ablatives, unless you often sail the boat on a minimum regularr basis (at least ~weekly) so that the slime is released you can still be plagued by barnacles, even with the 'top-self' anti-slime paints.

Ditto the 'anti barnacle' coatings for prop/strut/shaft ... because of the recent 'water changes' over the past 3-4 years, the increased nutrient burden and extremely high turbidity coming down the Susquehanna R., etc. even such products as Petit Barnacle Barrier is no longer protecting the underwater metals. (... worse, the infamous zebra mussels are now 'coming down' the Susquehanna and only time will tell if they will 'explode' on the low salinity upper Chesapeake). Hopefully the prevailing winds will change back to SW'er that better 'mix' the bay waters and we can once again enjoy less problems.
 
#12 ·
As a relative newbe, I really appreciate all this advice. Both owners of this boat are horse vets with unending access to oxytetracycline... now I know what to do with all those out of date bottles...:)

The boat is on a trailer, so will not need hauling. But I guess then need to put it on a cradle to paing, etc.

I don't think we will need to hire divers, we can haul it out and clean from time to time. I think the best thing may be to let the yard do the first paint job and we will see what happens in subsequent years. At least htat way if the water line gets messed up, we can blame someone else..:)

I will ask some specific questions about what they are using.
 
#18 ·
I hope you are right Fastbottom. Our diver is great and he has been invaluable. There is a talk of a new MD law prohibiting them working on the bottoms of boats mainly aimed at in water hull cleaning ..we actualy just signed a petition against that in the club. The law had no mention of CU based bttom paints.
 
#20 ·
I hope you are right Fastbottom. Our diver is great and he has been invaluable. There is a talk of a new MD law prohibiting them working on the bottoms of boats mainly aimed at in water hull cleaning ..we actualy just signed a petition against that in the club. The law had no mention of CU based bttom paints.
I'm actually having a discussion about this with a Maryland hull diver right now over on Cruisers Forum. We're going over the discharge permit and I think I've shown that in-water hull cleaning is not prohibited. It seems the cleaning of ablative paints is, but not hull cleaning in general.

Go here to read the thread:

New Rules for Bottom Paint - Page 3 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
 
#21 ·
Fastbttn,,

The indivigual in the thread you posted is our diver actually.. very knowledgable. He is right about using ablative paints on the Chessie. The slime away properties are superior we have found on a consistant basis. This is the hull cleaning they may outlaw as I posted before. We may have to get shorthauled and powered washed instead of having the diver. Hard paints such as Petit Trinidadad dont do as well ehere.

Dave
 
#23 ·
Puget Sound in WA is sorta outlawed in the hull cleaning part. Mostly for ablatives. Hard paints one can have a diver clean the hull, ablative no. My marina will not let you dive and clean ANY bottom, outside the break water, no biggie!

But there does seem to be a "get rid of the copper paints" locally too. Not sure if this is good or bad.....

But this could spread........

Marty
 
#24 ·
Discharge permits are being rescinded by the dozens, perhaps hundreds, in New England. There are marinas that are voluntarily making changes, such as prohibiting hull diving or requiring e-green type paints that are getting an extension before having to put in pressure washing containment units. It's like legislating from the bench. The laws themselves haven't necessarily changed much . Its all just a game, but the direction is clear.
 
#25 ·
Friendly reminder. There are a number of posts here that discussed the use of oxytetracycline as a marine antifoulant paint additive. Be advised that in 2005 such used were cancelled by the USEPA. To add the compound, veterinary drug sourced or what have you, to marine antifoulant paint could be interpreted as a violation of FIFRA. Procede with due dilligence.

"Use of oxytetracycline as a marine anti-foulant additive for barnacle control was cancelled in 2005."
Oxytetracycline Summary Document
Registration Review: Initial Docket
December 2008
Case # 0655
 
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