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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > 2 dead, 8 injured in sailboat sinking
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Thread: 2 dead, 8 injured in sailboat sinking Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-01-2011 08:46 AM
TakeFive
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You are absolutely right and this is one of those cases where even the ones that are for total freedom in what regards the need of licences for sailing and to carry as passengers the ones it please them, will think twice.

If someone can do this kind of stuff without any kind of supervision (kind of licence needed, kind of boat that fulfill the basic requirements, number of people that boat can carry under these circumstances and so on) how can they have "trusted this organization to provide a safe sail. When "Captain George"... welcomed them aboard they assumed he knew what the frig he was doing" if, as you have said, they probably don't know nothing about sailing or boats?

How should they know if it's safe or not? Who is telling them that? In whom can they trust?. There are a lot of good intentioned people that don't know what they are doing.

Regards

Paulo
I am glad some people are finally agreeing with me. I stated before that this boat should have been regulated as a vessel for hire. There is no difference between a boat like this giving free rides (and apparently soliciting "registration fees" and voluntary donations) and a water taxi or ferry. There should have been captain certification, regular inspections of the vessel, etc., just like are done for vessels for hire.

Maybe that's what the local regs already required, and this organization simply ignored them. If so, there may be no need for new regulations, just after-the-fact charges against the captain/organization for breaking the law (on multiple occasions).

Even those regulations do not guarantee perfect safety of the passengers - think Baltimore Water Taxi and Philly Duck Boats. But they do hopefully minimize the incidence of egregious repeated safety violations, which some are saying was the case here.
04-01-2011 07:20 AM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailtch View Post
..The responsibilty lies with the boats captain, whether he was USCG liscensed or not. Although I would wager he is not. One of the poster states that the parent should have stopped the voyage. I take a strong objection to this. These people were not sailors. These people probably had never before been on a boat. They were brought to the boat by Heart of Sailing. They trusted this organization to provide a safe sail. When "Captain George"(this is how he is refered to by the web site) welcomed them aboard they assumed he knew what the frig he was doing. The absolute terror the parents of the disabled child/children must have felt is staggering for these children must have been extremely traumatized. I am not for more or bigger government. I am for common sense. Organizations such as these should state the qualifications of their skippers. Are they USCG liscensed, ASA qualifications, etc.
...
You are absolutely right and this is one of those cases where even the ones that are for total freedom in what regards the need of licences for sailing and to carry as passengers the ones it please them, will think twice.

If someone can do this kind of stuff without any kind of supervision (kind of licence needed, kind of boat that fulfill the basic requirements, number of people that boat can carry under these circumstances and so on) how can they have "trusted this organization to provide a safe sail. When "Captain George"... welcomed them aboard they assumed he knew what the frig he was doing" if, as you have said, they probably don't know nothing about sailing or boats?

How should they know if it's safe or not? Who is telling them that? In whom can they trust?. There are a lot of good intentioned people that don't know what they are doing.

Regards

Paulo
04-01-2011 06:58 AM
PCP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdbee View Post
Just curious where you located the max load figure?
Listen to the first posted movie. At the end the reporter says that the boat shipyard had said that the boat was badly overloaded and that the max load of that boat (according with the shipyard) was the one I had refereed. Max load is the weight of crew and passengers, luggage, equipment, everything except tankage.

Regards

Paulo
04-01-2011 06:28 AM
Minnewaska Often, mistakes are completely disguised by randomly avoiding consequences the first time you make them. In this case, perhaps the first few hundred times.
04-01-2011 12:24 AM
sailtch
tragic sail

Yes I just joined, yes this is my first post. I have been reading(lurking) this forum for longer than I can recall, never felt the need to post, or guess I never felt I had something to share.
I am the parent of a special needs child. This organization (heart of sailing) is new to me. The boat as pictured is clearly overloaded, as it was when the accident occured. The responsibilty lies with the boats captain, whether he was USCG liscensed or not. Although I would wager he is not. One of the poster states that the parent should have stopped the voyage. I take a strong objection to this. These people were not sailors. These people probably had never before been on a boat. They were brought to the boat by Heart of Sailing. They trusted this organization to provide a safe sail. When "Captain George"(this is how he is refered to by the web site) welcomed them aboard they assumed he knew what the frig he was doing. The absolute terror the parents of the disabled child/children must have felt is staggering for these children must have been extremely traumatized. I am not for more or bigger government. I am for common sense. Organizations such as these should state the qualifications of their skippers. Are they USCG liscensed, ASA qualifications, etc.
Also this boat was in Chicago last summer, 2010, with "Captain George", see schedule below. On their website they ask for boat donations, if you look you will see they want keel boats. The mac 25 is not. Hopefully this link works.
Edit: I have been informed that I can not submit links because I am new. Type the following into your browser. heartofsailing.org/regional77. If that fails go to their website, click sail with us, click chicago.
03-31-2011 09:45 PM
Boasun Some questions:
Did this Skipper have a USCG license?
Was the boat inspected, & certified for commercial usage?
Why wasn't he turned in for over loading his vessel time after time?
What was the number of brain cells is there in his brain pan?
03-31-2011 09:42 PM
smackdaddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I get 57 people with the formula. You're all invited. Uh, someone needs to bring more beer and/or pfds.
Who needs pfds? With that many empties, you'll have plenty of floatation.
03-31-2011 09:30 PM
Minnewaska I get 57 people with the formula. You're all invited. Uh, someone needs to bring more beer and/or pfds.
03-31-2011 09:13 PM
mdbee
Max Load

Just curious where you located the max load figure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That boat has a max load of 960lbs. It carried 10 people more the weight of equipment and stuff. It was clearly overloaded. As you well know no pilot would fly an overloaded airplane and if the airplane crashed he would be accused of criminal negligence.

Regards

Paulo
03-31-2011 09:09 PM
souljour2000 Ain't that the truth...just go out into the ICW channels in South Florida on any Saturday and Sunday...probably safer to drive a moped with no helmet thru New Delhi rush hour traffic...but instead I just try to get on the water REAL early and get back in REAL late...me two-foot draft keeps me out of the slot a fair amount too...
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