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Got caught in a Squall today

11K views 36 replies 24 participants last post by  SeaLifeSailing 
#1 ·
Hello Sailors

I need a bit of advice and hope that more knowledgeable salts could help; I went out today single handed for a half day sail on a 40’ monohull. The for-cast was for 20 to 25 knots in Moreton bay, Brisbane. All was fine until I noticed a storm approaching. About 15 minutes later I noticed the water ahead was white as the rain bucketed sideways. I was already on second reef on the main and the Furling jib was reefed to around 100%. The oncoming squall was pushing me toward a lee shore about a mile away and so I decided to head into it instead of galloping with the wind at 8 knots towards the lee shore. I was also thinking that the wind wouldn’t be more that 30 knots - pretty dum really. In heading into the wind I thought that I would cope by sheeting in the jib (not too tight) and the mains and simply feather the boat close hauled as I have done many times. This worked fine until the wind started to gust to 40 knots and the half furled jib began to beat in an intermittent and uncontrollable manner. I managed to keep it calm for much of the time but every now and then the rig would vibrate with the shock loads administered by the jib.

It seems to me that the windage of furled part of the jib is large in 40 knots of wind and maybe the forstay is not tight enough (even though I manage to point well). I didn’t want the rig coming down and so I heaved to; this calmed things down with a drift speed of around 3.2 knots and 10 minutes later the wind dropped to a respectable 20 to 25 knots again.

The shudders in the rig scared the hell out of me and I was wandering what others have to say with respect furled head sails and sailing into stiff 35 to 40 knot winds. Should I have furled the jib completely and simply relied on the mains which was behaving well; the argument against the main only I guess would be that I wouldn’t be able to heave to nor even make head way.

Would love to hear if others have had similar rig vibrations from a furler head sail or indeed what they might have done differently.
 
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#2 ·
I've seen that before as well. The amount of turbulence at 40 knots coming around the furled jib is enough to break the air off the surface of the sail. One way to cope is to set the furling line tight, cleat it off, trim the remaining jib tight and then tighten the windward sheet as well. You want what bit of sail ya have out trim pretty hard in heavy winds. At least, that's been my experience. YMMV.
 
#4 ·
but every now and then the rig would vibrate with the shock loads administered by the jib.

The shudders in the rig scared the hell out of me and I was wandering what others have to say with respect furled head sails and sailing into stiff 35 to 40 knot winds.
Excellent post, I would like hear from others too.
I wonder if you can fall off a bit on your heading will eliminate the shudders which I believe it was caused by harmonic vibration.

Without knowing more, I am most likely to heave to in your situation but then one mile to lee shore is nerve wracking. :)
 
#6 ·
CharlieCobra said:
The amount of turbulence at 40 knots coming around the furled jib is enough to break the air off the surface of the sail.
I like that explanation. I've read a number of threads on reefed furled headsails and didn't expect to experience a con I was unaware of. A deep reef on a furled headsail looks horrible and I guess they behave the way the look. A stay sail like imagine2frolic suggests is something I need to look into. The mast on my boat is way forward, unlike a cutter rig, with J=4.32m and E=5.9m; I think that I should still be able to fit a stay with a J of maybe 3m -must talk to a rigger.

rockDAWG said:
I wonder if you can fall off a bit on your heading will eliminate the shudders
This may have helped but the feeling I had at the time was that I had too much sail up to fall off; my guesstimate was even with a second reef on the main and sheeted out there would have been way too much heel. Were it not for heaving to I would have then attempted to drop the main completely.

Probably also worth mentioning that I have spent a total of 193 days on the bay sailing and often 20 knots plus; today was different due in part to the behaviour of the rig.

What I'm trying to get at is how would a 100% jib that is not furled behave; my thought is that it would have been fine. I've read a lot on overlapping versus non-overlapping headsails and I am still lost as to what way to go. The current boat moves well to windward with a 135% overlapping head sail in anything under 15 knots of wind; above that though I find that the 135% is too much and the furler is used for reefing - a PITA.
 
#7 ·
I have a masthead rigged boat and encounter the same problem with my 130 Genoa. Even rolling it up to a “postage stamp” will not eliminate the harmonics – way too much fabric rolled around the headstay. You just have to pull out a little postage stamp and crank on max backstay tension then grin and bear it. My local San Francisco conditions might be similar to yours. In our summer winds (20-30kts), we swap down to a 110 jib. I had my sail maker cut in a full roach supported by vertical battens which gives me pretty good performance. Downwind, we usually rely on the kite for extra power.
 
#9 ·
I've only sailed in 40 knots once. Lots of times in 20-30. But in that 40, I felt the exact same shuddering you're talking about.

However, I was under double reefed main only (doused the hank-on 110) and stayed off the wind quite a bit (beam-to-close reach). This let me control the shuddering by easing off the main in the gusts.

Definitely spooky though.
 
#10 ·
squall

The only luck I had was to far reach. I guss what I really did was roll up the head sail and reef the main tight, head into the gusts at 35 to 45 degeres off the wind and the boat responded well. Not always the direction you may want to go, but this has worked for me in these conditions. And yes my friend it was scary as hell for the first 10 min. It thought it almost got quiet when it lowered down to 30/35 kts, nuts ha?
 
#12 ·
I was in the slip working on the boat when a 50 knot squall came through. I can not even imagine being out in that. HOLY CRAP!

One step at a time.

I'll tell you one thing...I want to make sure my boat is WAY more solid than the Smacktanic currently is before I face something like that. (And that I have clean underwear on.)
 
#13 ·
...I'll tell you one thing...I want to make sure my boat is WAY more solid than the Smacktanic currently is before I face something like that. (And that I have clean underwear on.)
Actually I think it would be more important to have clean underwear to change into, if you know what I mean. :p
 
#14 ·
I have only had the fun of Sailing in 40+ knots once. But an experience like stays with you as if it were a few hours ago. My take is that while we think of wind as constant speed and direction, it is anything but constant in either speed or direction. So, when the speed is up, the forces are magnified. At those high speeds, a small change in direction will make the boat shudder. Also, the forestay that was taught at 15 knots seems loose at 40 knots which only adds to the problems. There is nothing to do do but either tough it Out and cope with the shuddering or remove sail and motor in. I thInk your instinct to have-to was a good one.
 
#15 ·
Hi Aac ..I'm a little afraid to ask this...but do you have an engine?

My tactics with those fast moving squalls, I've been hit with 70mph winds, has been to start the engine, roll up the genoa tight, double reef the main and hold the boat as close to the wind ( sometimes directly into it ) as I can. I have felt that shudder as it gets over 50 mph..it's eerie.
You never really know how much punch those squalls have until it's too late, and I don't want to deal with a poorly shaped headsail that's set too high or a loose sheet that might get away....

The combination of the engine with just enough power applied to hold me to wind or pinching .and the double reefed mainsail has worked for me.
The squalls are often relatively short lived ( 20 minutes or so). Then I'll make decision of what to set up to get sailing again.

I also don't like being pushed off the wind with just a DR mainsail up, I've seen boats get knocked down like that, If the wind finds a fifth gear.

I do have a gale sail,,,,,, with 15 minutes to prep... single handed..I could probably set the reefs in the main and get the storm jib up...get foul weather gear on..but it might be close. I should time that process someday.
 
#17 ·
Hi Aac ..I'm a little afraid to ask this...but do you have an engine?

My tactics with those fast moving squalls, I've been hit with 70mph winds, has been to start the engine, roll up the genoa tight, double reef the main and hold the boat as close to the wind ( sometimes directly into it ) as I can. I have felt that shudder as it gets over 50 mph..it's eerie.
You never really know how much punch those squalls have until it's too late, and I don't want to deal with a poorly shaped headsail that's set too high or a loose sheet that might get away....

The combination of the engine with just enough power applied to hold me to wind or pinching .and the double reefed mainsail has worked for me.
The squalls are often relatively short lived ( 20 minutes or so). Then I'll make decision of what to set up to get sailing again.

I also don't like being pushed off the wind with just a DR mainsail up, I've seen boats get knocked down like that, If the wind finds a fifth gear.

I do have a gale sail,,,,,, with 15 minutes to prep... single handed..I could probably set the reefs in the main and get the storm jib up...get foul weather gear on..but it might be close. I should time that process someday.
I was totally in the engine mindset until I read a story around here about Jeff-H in a squally using sail to help him out will the engine-only dudes were having trouble. After he'd explained it, it made perfect sense - although it was counterintuitive.

I'll try to find that story. I think it's in the Holiest of Holies...the BFS Thread.
 
#18 ·
Hello,

I was caught in similar conditions a few years ago. My family (3 kids plus my wife) were out for a simple day sail on the Long Island Sound. My wife pointed out some thunderstorm type clouds and asked me if we should head in and get off the water. I remarked that the storms were far way and moving further away.

I was wrong. We sailed for a bit, maybe 30 minutes, and then I saw what appeared to be a solid wall of water moving towards me. I didn't even have time to scream 'holey sh*t' before we were hit. I sent the kids below, put my wife on the wheel and I went below (just kidding). I had her steer into the wind while I started the engine and rolled up the headsail. Then I sent her below and I hung on while I pinched up into the wind. My wife asked if we were going to head in now. I said 'no way, we're going to open water so we have plenty of room.' The rig made a lot of noise but the boat was easy to control.

This past summer we were stuck in similar conditions. I was (a little) smarter this time and rolled up the headsail and started the engine BEFORE we got it. Unfortunately, this time we were in the ocean and the waves got large. With the engine on and the main up I was able to pinch up into the wind and things weren't so bad. About 30 minutes later it was all over.

Barry
 
#19 ·
With the risk of coming off as a purist (which I'm definitely not, having probably motored 50% of the time when we were out cruising)... in a storm, on a sailboat, sail it. Don't depend on the motor. They give out at the most inopportune times (as I can tell you from experience). When you get hit by a storm there's the opportunity for waves and wind to thrash your boat around, stirring up all sorts of muck in the tanks and sending it to your filters where it will clog them and then stall the engine. If your engine goes out and you're not prepared to deal with it (i.e. you're not set up to sail), it can get very dangerous. Once again - I've had my engine conk out at very inopportune times. So... use your engine if you want, but be prepared to fall back to your sails if there's a failure.

We got hit with close to 70mph winds while sailing from Norfolk to NYC. We were off the New Jersey coast with no place to duck in. We had our genoa completely furled and a double reef in the main (in retrospect we should have put our third reef in but didn't think the wind would be getting that high). We ran in front of the storm at a slight angle to it, keeping the wind on our aft quarter. Our main was sheeted out pretty far. When I'd head up even a few degrees, the rig would bang itself crazily due to the amount of wind turbulence spilling off it. We definitely got some good harmonics coming off of our genoa furler. It's just what happens.

The most important thing to do is to make sure you get your standing and running rigging inspected as often as possible (once a year in our case for the standing rigging) - even checking the chainplates where they enter the deck (this is where the highest chance of failure is) - and then trust in the rigging. If the mast topples, it topples, but set your sails for the appropriate trim and then commit. I don't think I'd head into the wind or even slightly off the wind in a big blow. There's too much chance of losing momentum, falling off and then broaching as a result. You could do it with an engine and no sails, but see my above warnings. The best bet in VERY heavy winds (50+) is to run ahead of them, heave to (if you're far enough away from a lee shore) or forereach. We've done all three and make our decision based upon the anticipated length of the storm and the wave conditions. When we got hit by the almost 70mph winds we knew the storm would only last about 45 minutes, and we had headed close to shore so we knew there would be minimal fetch (wind was blowing away from shore). We picked running ahead of the storm. If it was going to last more than an hour we probably would have heaved to. As it was, we hit over 9 kts with just our double reefed main and I wanted to let out a little whoop of excitement (but my wife would have killed me since we had lightning crashing around us too).

Anyway - I wouldn't worry as much about the stress on your rig from the harmonics/wind shear/turbulence as much as I'd worry about damage to your sail. If you have your genny out, just tighten it up as flat as it will go, yank down on the leech line if you have one and try not to freak out too much :). The decision on whether to have your genny out should be partially made by understanding how your boat sails under main alone and whether you want to heave to or not. You certainly don't want to have to be dealing with letting your genny out in 40kts+ of wind (make sure you have several wraps of the furling line around a winch if you do need to ease it out).
 
#21 ·
#22 ·
Great thread, thank you all.
I2f, I know sudden changes can foretell squalls, but sometimes it's just local conditions. I was out on tuesday in LI Sound. Left the harbor in a warm moderate SSW. About a mile out I ran out of that breeze into a very light N, bringing with it cool damp air. It was a local sea breeze, fighting the ocean's sea breeze that blew across the island. I could see the line where the two met, a funny little noisy chop. Soon enough the real sea breeze came across fresh and warm from the island.
By the way, the worst squall I've sailed through was in a gaff yawl. I furled the jib and mizzen, scandalized the main (lowered the gaff). That led to some flogging, but the flexibility of the wooden spar mostly just let it bend. I don't know what the wind speed was, but an observer from shore said that my boat just disappeared in the spray and waves. I did have one break over the windward side, but it didn't get into the cockpit.
 
#23 ·
It's funny but I remember sailing Oh Joy from Seattle to Anacortes (at least, that was the intended destination) in what started out as 20-25 and worke it's way up to 45 before I notice the difference. When sailing offwind, wind increases can sneak up on ya. I had full main and 135 out until a wave turned us beam on and I couldn't get her turned back offwind. So I spun into the next wave, hopped the crest and then doused the Genny (furler), hoisted the staysail and put one reef in the main. I should've put two in so the weather helm wouldn't be so bad later.

By the time twilight hit and I diverted to Port Townsend, it was blowing 62 and gusting to 78. I didn't appreciate doing a beam reach in that at all, especially with a single reef in the main. Lots of crackin' and poppin' going on as I eased way out to keep her feet. Don't rightly know how that old mainsail survived this long.
 
#25 ·
I've been through a few like that; honestly, none were a real surprise. Big black clouds, you know.

The first few were in small boats and I struggled with to much sail. But with a tight jib and a main traveled down, they are "manageable." After a few more I learned: reduce sail early! Struggling with too much sail up generally does not make you look like a wise sailor; it makes you look foolish for fighting nature. A boat with tight reefs, sailing under easy control, looks smart.

I'm not saying you need to go right for the engine, but be realistic about how much wind it "may" pack, reduce, and get on a tack that takes you somewhere safe.

In squalls I will generally roll the jib way in, since it's dangerous to the gear to fool with it once the wind hits, and the main cleared to drop quickly if that's what's needed. 40 knots is tough, but what if there had been an 80kt microburst in there? Your sail would be gone now.
 
#28 ·
I'll Say It Again

Roller reefing on a headsail is absolutely fine if all you will ever do is puddle around in modest weather; or go with a full reef and start the iron spinnaker.

But in winds of serious sorts, roller reefing of the headsail increases issues.

Think about it, it's just physics. When you genny is set at full and your main at full, the vasrious centres of effort (the sails) compared to the cente of lateral resistence are in harmony...At least they should be.

Moreover, the wind on a full-set headsail passes by with minimal obstruction.

Now roller reef in your headsail. Apart from lessening the sail size, what does it do? First it creates a huge source of leading-edge eddie. Second it lifts the centre of effort by the degree of furl.

Do you all know how to calc the centre of effort of a sail? Sure you do. Tripex three lines from head, clew, and tack, to the opposite centre, (head to centre of foot. Luff to centre of leech, clew to centre of luff) and the trisect is the centre of effort.

See how roller reefing lifts it ever upward and creates and ever-increasing horizontal load on your boat?

Slab-reefing of a headsail creates none of these issues. As a slab comes down, so does the centre of effort, and the luff is still nice and clean.

Slab-reefing of a headsail is way-less arduous than roller reefing and presents none of the issues presented by roller-reefing. But it's essential only when one is playing in winds exceeding 25 knots.

I hope that helps.
 
#30 ·
Roller reefing on a headsail is absolutely fine if all you will ever do is puddle around in modest weather; or go with a full reef and start the iron spinnaker.

But in winds of serious sorts, roller reefing of the headsail increases issues.

Think about it, it's just physics. When you genny is set at full and your main at full, the vasrious centres of effort (the sails) compared to the cente of lateral resistence are in harmony...At least they should be.

Moreover, the wind on a full-set headsail passes by with minimal obstruction.

Now roller reef in your headsail. Apart from lessening the sail size, what does it do? First it creates a huge source of leading-edge eddie. Second it lifts the centre of effort by the degree of furl.

Do you all know how to calc the centre of effort of a sail? Sure you do. Tripex three lines from head, clew, and tack, to the opposite centre, (head to centre of foot. Luff to centre of leech, clew to centre of luff) and the trisect is the centre of effort.

See how roller reefing lifts it ever upward and creates and ever-increasing horizontal load on your boat?

Slab-reefing of a headsail creates none of these issues. As a slab comes down, so does the centre of effort, and the luff is still nice and clean.

Slab-reefing of a headsail is way-less arduous than roller reefing and presents none of the issues presented by roller-reefing. But it's essential only when one is playing in winds exceeding 25 knots.

I hope that helps.
Gosh do you think I should tell this sailor how dangerous her boat is, she has no less than three roller furlers.

From Hoot Mon

Whoops too late she has sailed it round the world through the southern ocean and all in record time, shame that innit. :rolleyes:
 
#29 ·
Squall

I have found that fully furling the headsail and luffing into the sqall so that you have minimum headway but you still have control works best for the short time it takes for the squall to pass through. Then you can happily unfurl your headsail and get back on course with the least stress to you and your gear.
 
#31 · (Edited)
My old Centaur has boom roller reefing and handles the weather well, I generally put a couple of rolls in both the genny and main and keep the traveler tight in heavy seas, wind gusts don,t bother a Centaur so much anyway with the bilge keels and heavy displacement. She just heads up into the wind if pushed to hard.:D
If I need to take more than 50% down I generally drop the lot and bring on the Yanmar.:eek:
Safe sailing
 
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