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Tartan 37 Glassed over CB

9K views 17 replies 10 participants last post by  DanBR 
#1 ·
I live in south Florida and I am currently considering a sailboat for trips to the Bahamas and possibly in the future farther Caribbean islands. One boat I came across that I am considering is a 1976 Tartan 37. I was very high on this boat until I was told that the centerboard no longer drops and has been glassed over. It is now in a constant 4' 2" draft.

How much does this affect the performance, comfort, safety, and construction of the boat? Also, Does it make it significantly less seaworthy? Would the boat be likely to capsize in heavy weather?

I am also considering a late 80's Tartan 31 with Schoal draft 4.5'. Would this be a better choice?
 
#2 ·
I live in south Florida and I am currently considering a sailboat for trips to the Bahamas and possibly in the future farther Caribbean islands. One boat I came across that I am considering is a 1976 Tartan 37. I was very high on this boat until I was told that the centerboard no longer drops and has been glassed over. It is now in a constant 4' 2" draft.

How much does this affect the performance, comfort, safety, and construction of the boat? Also, Does it make it significantly less seaworthy? Would the boat be likely to capsize in heavy weather?

I am also considering a late 80's Tartan 31 with Schoal draft 4.5'. Would this be a better choice?
I'm not a designer, and I'm not even very smart, but I wouldn't buy a boat that was designed and built with a centerboard that someone later glassed over. It's kind of like when people ask me about increasing the sizes of their standing rigging when it's time for replacement. I usually tell them that someone a lot smarter than me and them designed it that way for a purpose and it has served well for many years. Why change it?

Bob Perry, a well known and respected yacht designer has recently joined our ranks and I bet he would be able to answer your question more intelligently. You might want to send him a PM. :)
 
#3 ·
Whenever you alter the designers original intent, there are nearly always serious consequences. Best case, I'd say that your boat is going to be crippled going to weather. Worst case is that the centerboard weight being in the hull will throw off the balance of the boat...making it a lot more rolly. On the positive side, 4'2" will get you nearly anywhere in Florida and Bahamas...perhaps this is why the PO did the modifications.

Also think about resale...this is the equivalent of putting on an unpermitted addition to a house. Some people wont care, but most will run away from buying this boat.
 
#4 ·
I'm guessing it will affect the boats windward performance A LITTLE, but probably not enough to worry about. I believe the 37's board is non-ballasted like the 34's and adds basically nothing to her stability. There are a lot of these boats that have had problems with the CB and the owners just removed them. On the bright side you won't have to worry about any maintenance or repairs on the board, pivot, or its control mechanism.
 
#5 ·
The centerboard on the T-37 just has enough weight to allow it to drop, so it really does not add anything to the stability. It does allow you to point a good 5-7 deg higher with less leeway, balance the helm on a reach and with it up on a run you'll see a good bump in your speed do to the reduced resistance.

But with all that said, the T-37 is a very capable boat with or without the centerboard and I would not hesitate cruising the Caribbean in one.
 
#13 ·
SOLARE,

Is the increased leeway due to lack of centerboard significant or minimal? Is the 5-7 degrees a big issue? Would you say that the boat is more tender without the lowered centerboard?
You would not hesitate cruising in a T37 without a centerboard? Last question, if the Phrf for a T37 averages 132 what would it be approximately without a centerboard. Just trying to get an understand just home much the performance is compromised.
 
#6 ·
Dan, from Solare's firsthand experience with them apparently it is not a deal breaker. Still, I've found that when something is "built to a price" that the builders don't waste a lot of money on things that have no value, i.e. centerboards. Someone must have thought it does something.

You'd have to bum a ride on the same model, board up and down, to see how you feel about that up close and personal.

I'd factor in the cost of repairing it (haul, grind, line, maybe bearing?) and whatever surprises might be in there. Glassing it over sounds like a somewhat overpowering way to make sure it just never needed routine cleaning and antifouling in there.

But when you mention "capsize" that's something else entirely with a centerboard boat. My impression is that fixed keels have always been preferred for crossings where a capsize might happen, simply because a centerboard may become a guillotine slicing into the hull during an inversion. Or at least, a rather rude loud noise.

For shoal waters they certainly serve a purpose though!
 
#9 ·
But when you mention "capsize" that's something else entirely with a centerboard boat. My impression is that fixed keels have always been preferred for crossings where a capsize might happen, simply because a centerboard may become a guillotine slicing into the hull during an inversion.
There is no way that the loss of the centerboard on a S&S designed T-37 would compromise the seaworthinesses of the vessel, be it glassed in, missing, or just not bothered to be dropped and the notion of it to "become a guillotine" during an inversion is simply ridiculous.

The majority of Hinckleys & Bristols also have centerboards, not for ballast, but as a performance boost....
 
#7 ·
I have sailed two friend's Tartan 34's. One has a functional board and one has the center board glassed in. One is a fine little sailboat that I would take anywhere and the other is a total dog.

Imagine a stormy night off a dangerous lee-shore and your engine fails the difference between survival and disaster is the boats ability to sail to windward off a lee shore...Which boat would you choose?

Phil
 
#10 ·
You must not have sailed them much because I can tell you the difference is minimal. Yes, you might point a little better, but not a life and death difference as you imply and you also have the trade off of added drag with the board down.
 
#8 ·
I'm with Yorksailor and others who would want to have a working center board on this model boat since it was designed to be sailed with one. If I were considering buying this T 37' I'd deduct the estimated cost of restoring the center board to functionality from my bid price and it may not be all that easy or cheap to do.
Tartan made quite a few boats with center boards. Is this the model you are looking at: TARTAN 37-2 Sailboat details on sailboatdata.com

My boat is a smaller, older sibling of the T 37' but the Tartan 27' is a full keel design and the centerboard really reduces our leeway when going upwind when deployed.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for all the quick responses. I appreciate everyone taking the time. I agree with both sides to some degree. My biggest concern was stability. Do most of you agree that a glassed in centerboard will not affect the stability? I understand that the boat will not point as high without the board down, but I didn't think 5 degrees was that big of a deal. Am I right with that assumption? Does the lack of centerboard affect speed or diminish the performance on any other point of sail other than close hauled? For example, does the lack of down centerboard affect the speed or overall performance on say a beam reach? Also, will the boat roll more and be less comfortable to sail on?

One other concern I have is resale value. If I sell the boat someday prospective buyers will surely be thinking the same thing I am thinking right now. Thus hurting the chances of selling it at its suggested value or even selling it at all.

I really don't want to buy a boat where I have major repairs such as fixing a centerboard that has been glassed over, so I don't think I would do that. Plus from what I have read it is fairly expensive to restore a centerboard. Anyone have any idea how expensive this is?
 
#14 · (Edited)
I guess I'll chime in as well....Dan, I believed you also posted on the Tartan 37 website??
What I said there also echoes what Solare is saying here. I've had our T-37 for 16 years now and I can tell you, we only use our board about 5% of the time, even going to weather. Sure, the board helps out pointing, but unless you are really trying to tack through 80-85 degrees, you don't need it. Without the board we tack throu 90-95 degrees, no problem...even closer if it's blowing above ten knots. The fixed part of the keel is fairly long, about 8ft or so at the bottom, and leeway is not that noticable either and I don't think the board significantly improves leeway. This boat has a 48% ballast/displacement ratio so she's quite stable....check out the other specs and you'll see she's quite respectable.
All that said, I wouldn't hesitate buying the boat but just make sure it is priced accordingly, maybe 10K less than others of the same vintage and degree of repair?
I am guessing it is hull #2 that you are buying? This is(was)the yacht "Tigger"(later renamed), which circumnavigated and lost it's board in the Pacific and they glassed over the slot. Must not have been too bad if they continued on with their circumnavigation.
Hope this helps,
Tom
 
#15 · (Edited)
Just adding my $.02

Glassed over centerboard wouldn't be a deal breaker for me knowing how the boat sails without it down.

If a thorough survey goes good, don't let the centerboard thing stop you. Did you ask the PO why they glassed it over? Maybe it could be undone, for all we know its because they didn't want the maintenance aspect of it? Worst case, its because the penet pipe has failed or something structural?

I am not familiar with the T31 first hand so add much, but I would think the additional size would be most appealing ;)
 
#16 ·
Are Tartan 37's that rare that one would have to opt for a owner modified one? Or is it that the price is really attractive? :confused:
It seems to me that there are a glut of used sailboats on the market. I for one would opt for a boat that was well maintained in it's originally designed configuration.
If someone glassed over the centerboard because they didn't want to maintain it or because they didn't maintain it, that would signal a red flag for me.
 
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