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Boat Aground In Annapolis, MD- Can someone help this man

14K views 103 replies 36 participants last post by  Ilenart 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Yikes,, Poor guy.

I was thinking floats right off the bat but with out anything for the floats to float against..

I just hate to think what pulling and tugging on the boat will eventually do to it damage wise. What about inlisting a bunch of people with boats to maneuver around it,, hook on to it (in a well coordinated effort ) to pull,, and while they are doing that maybe the engines will create enough chop and buoyancy to float it out a bit?



What about a really big boat comes by leaving a huge wake,, time it right and give a tug? Attempted a few times it might work,,,, but it might also just destroy the boat..
 
#6 ·
Without seeing drawings...I'd have to guess that by simple geometry, you can't heel a boat with an 8' draft far enough to get the keel out of the mud, until you've got the toerail well submerged. Which means flooding and sinking the boat.

At 84,000 pounds she's beyond helicopter lift capacity, too. that means they'll need a barge and crane to lift it and float it out, unless they really think they can kludge a lift "collar" around the hull that will raise four feet of it (essentially, everything but the keel) out of the water. At some 62# per cubic foot and maybe 75,000 pounds to lift? Easy, just rig about 1200 cubic feet of lift bag under the waterline. Capped PVC pipe, lift bags...

I leave it to someone else to figure out if that's gonna cost more than the barge and crane. :)

Or hauling it ashore and making it into a hot dog stand?
 
#7 ·
Assuming the bottom is silt or sand what he needs is a dredger. Dredge a hole to float the boat then dredge a channel in front of the boat and drop the fill in behind it.

Essentially move the hole with the boat in it.

I saw something like it in Alaska with giant gold dredges that were actually moved across dry land in their own little pond.

No idea what it costs to rent a dredge but it might be worth it.
 
#8 ·
I'm sure EPA, or DNR, or some enviro agency, will want permits before dredging, ugh. But whazzup with the owner saying he "can't afford insurance" when confronted with the damage his boat did to the docked powerboat, and yet he has a $500K boat? Doesn't he have responsibility whether he's insured or not?
 
#9 ·
As I read the article , I understood the owner to say that insurance for a 60 year old wood boat was difficult to get or possibly, not available. Not that he couldn't afford it.
I think, the insurance necessary to remedy the injuried party in this instance (the gentleman who was claiming his boat was damaged) would be liability isurance. And as I understand it this is not underwritten w/ necessarily the age of the vessel in consideration but rather the operator and intended use of the vessel.
As per the liability of the owner of the vessel causing the damage, I believe he would still be financially responsible,wether or not he is solvent for the damages is to be determined.
I read the comments of the readers on the linked sight and one poster indicated he had first hand knowledge of the parties involved and stated the damage amounted to a scratched or bent bow rail.
Also the injured party had come out on the dock and "yelled " at the grounded vessel's owner on numerous occasions and summonded the coast guard on more han one occasion hampering and delaying the efforts of the stranded vessel's crew/owner to effect the recovery !
What's wrong w/ people ?
This was obviously a misfortunate situation and not an intended action.
And a beautiful craft as well, I hope it gets floated. And it would be correct to see the damaged party made whole again as well, even if he seems to be acting a bit poorly.
just my observation.
would be curious to know how it plays out.
 
#11 ·
Plenty of jerkiness here to go 'round. Not clear from the article whether the sailboat owner accepted responsibility for the damage and indicated he intended to make good, or just used the lack of insurance as an "oops." If the latter, I could understand the powerboat owner's frustration, although it in no way excuses his bad behavior. I suppose the powerboat owner could go to his own insurance company for the repair, then let the company and their army of lawyers try to recoup from the sailboat owner.

I read the comments of the readers on the linked sight and one poster indicated he had first hand knowledge of the parties involved and stated the damage amounted to a scratched or bent bow rail.
The article indicated a "marine appraiser" estimated the damage at $4K.

Also the injured party had come out on the dock and "yelled " at the grounded vessel's owner on numerous occasions and summonded the coast guard on more han one occasion hampering and delaying the efforts of the stranded vessel's crew/owner to effect the recovery !
What's wrong w/ people ?
Just inexcuseable! It sounds like the sailboat owner is indeed making a diligent effort, and has been responsive to things like the possibility of leaking fuel. But calling the Coast Guard? Repeatedly? Really, don'cha think there are smarter ways to spend their time?

This was obviously a misfortunate situation and not an intended action.
And a beautiful craft as well, I hope it gets floated. And it would be correct to see the damaged party made whole again as well, even if he seems to be acting a bit poorly.
just my observation.
.
Totally agree.
 
#16 ·
I agree with you, without a major major expense this boat will not move. The article says the man is waiting for a high pressure system to raise the water- He should want a low pressure system. I used to live a mile where the boat is, normal tides are only a couple feet. Spring tides maybe up to 4 to five feet. This guy needs a northeaster for several days or a hurricane to get the water level where he needs it, and then once he has the boat to the open bay, he could be dealing with 8 foot seas with 50 knot winds.

I wish him luck.
 
#18 ·
From the article:

Emmet said he cannot afford to carry insurance.

---

"The boat was worthless, you could stick a rattail file through the deck at the mast," Emmet said.

An employee at a local boatyard began fixing the boat up, and Emmet joined the project sometime around 2005. He ended up buying the boat for $1,000 and dedicating himself to fixing it up.

---

Orca II is now worth about $500,000, Emmet said.
 
#20 ·
#22 ·
Hooray, I am glad. :) Good for both of them. Hope they live in harmony thereafter. Life is too damn short to sweat on the little stuff. It is only money, we can always make some more.

I also noticed that last nite at around 11:30 pm, the tide was way up there, I needed to jump off from the sailing boat for about good two feet. This was highest I can remember.
 
#25 ·
It's always good when a man ('s boat) gets off LOL

Seriously; Sailnet Mods,, why don't you invite him to the forum and write or have his story posted?

I'd actually love to have a tour of the gentleman's boat.
 
#26 ·
Glad to see it. I hope he can at least find some liability insurance on his old boat, since a boat like that can do some serious damage.

I tried to get to my boat yesterday and couldn't. We normally have 6' tidal swings, but it was up to 8', and was even higher than NOAA's 7' spring tide prediction. I was wondering if someone was emptying a big reservoir upriver, since there had been no recent rainfall or winds pushing the water in.

When I parked my car the water was into the parking lot about 18" past the end of the dock. I quickly changed my shoes and went back to the dock expecting to hop the 18" but it had moved to about 6' from the dock. It was still about 30 minutes to high tide, so I gave up and left because I did not want to wait over an hour for it to recede.

FYI, here's how it looked in Annapolis:

 
#28 ·
Noaa is very bad at predicting tides on the chesapeake. I lived on the bay and in about 1995 Noaa predicted 3 foot above msl and a hurricane surge caused an 8 foot above msl tide. Sometimes Conowingo Dam will release a lot of water (during heavy rains in PA) and the water will cause the bay to rise and when topped with winds and spring/fall tides it can amount to many times the normal tide. The release from Conowingo a few days ago might have helped the water level rise: USGS Real-Time Water Data for USGS 01578310 SUSQUEHANNA RIVER AT CONOWINGO, MD
 
#27 ·
I applaud the owner's patience, and ingenuity but as John quoted from the original article he said #1- insurance is hard to get for a wooden boat, and then later said #2 that he couldn't afford insurance.

Maybe you can't insure the boat, but he should be able to purchase liability insurance. If no one is willing to issue him any kind of insurance, then he should take greater precautions than normal to insure that his boat doesn't blow down on anyone else's property. This is sort of a case of someone biting off more than they can chew.

I'm not trying to crap on the guy, I'm glad for him. I just hope that he takes greater care in the future to secure the boat against adverse weather.

The other thought that keeps rattling around in my brain is: "Who the hell keeps a pleasure sailboat that draws 8 friggin' feet in the Chesapeake Bay???" That thing belongs in Puget Sound.:laugher
 
#29 ·
Maybe you can't insure the boat, but he should be able to purchase liability insurance. If no one is willing to issue him any kind of insurance, then he should take greater precautions than normal to insure that his boat doesn't blow down on anyone else's property. This is sort of a case of someone biting off more than they can chew.
I am afraid that the uninsured boaters are much more common than we realized, especially there is no requirement by the state. I wonder if there is uninsured boater insurance just like in the automobile side.

In today's economy, the first thing many boat owners will do is to drop their boat expense. This particular true when the owner has no net worth at all, he is not risking much when he is being sued. Suck to be the other boaters :)
 
#31 ·
Talking about insurance, say you run agound or are sinking and it is in the middle of the night. Do you try to contact your insurance company to get help or do you contact a salvage company directly to save your boat. In many cases time is of the essance. What do you do if your insurance company is slow to respond or does not answer the phone in the middle of the night? I have progessive so maybe they have 24 hr phone- but I could see any company dragging there heels and that time could mean if the boat is recoverable or not. Any experience on this?
 
#32 ·
I seriously doubt that you will be able to find an insurance carrier that does NOT have a 24-hour hotline these days. It's such a highly competitive field that they all want your business--any way they can get it. Look at the way auto insurance has gone in the past 20 years. Two decades ago they all claimed they were loosing money on auto insurance. Today, those same carriers are spending hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in advertising their car insurance.

Fortunately, I've only run aground (softly) twice in more than 55 years of boating. Both times I was in a well-marked channel, and I was able to extricate myself in just a few minutes.

One of the locations was Chincoteague, VA, where recent storms had caused a sandbar to shift more than 100 feet out into the main channel. The Coast Guard knew about the problem, apologized for the mishap and actually came to my rescue and towed me to deeper water.

The next location was the Havre de Grace, MD channel which is quite narrow when there's a tug pushing a pair of side-by-side barges near the turn at Battery Island. I gave him a wide berth, eased about 50-feet out of the channel near the Sand Island and came to an abrupt halt. As the tug passed his wake actually lifted me off the bottom, which made it easy for me to motor off the soft sand.

Hopefully, since I purchased the Morgan 33 O.I., which only draws 3'-11", groundings will be even less of a problem. But, if it happens again, I have Boat U.S. unlimited towing package, which I hope never to use. :)

Cheers,

Gary :cool:
 
#53 ·
I seriously doubt that you will be able to find an insurance carrier that does NOT have a 24-hour hotline these days. It's such a highly competitive field that they all want your business--any way they can get it. Look at the way auto insurance has gone in the past 20 years. Two decades ago they all claimed they were loosing money on auto insurance. Today, those same carriers are spending hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars in advertising their car insurance.

Fortunately, I've only run aground (softly) twice in more than 55 years of boating. Both times I was in a well-marked channel, and I was able to extricate myself in just a few minutes.

One of the locations was Chincoteague, VA, where recent storms had caused a sandbar to shift more than 100 feet out into the main channel. The Coast Guard knew about the problem, apologized for the mishap and actually came to my rescue and towed me to deeper water.

The next location was the Havre de Grace, MD channel which is quite narrow when there's a tug pushing a pair of side-by-side barges near the turn at Battery Island. I gave him a wide berth, eased about 50-feet out of the channel near the Sand Island and came to an abrupt halt. As the tug passed his wake actually lifted me off the bottom, which made it easy for me to motor off the soft sand.

Hopefully, since I purchased the Morgan 33 O.I., which only draws 3'-11", groundings will be even less of a problem. But, if it happens again, I have Boat U.S. unlimited towing package, which I hope never to use. :)

Cheers,

Gary :cool:
All true. A phone call is best.

Additionally (and not really related to your words, just a private rant), however, most (all?) insurance policies have some language describing a "sue and labour" clause. Generally the ship owner is requested to make every attempt to reduce or save the exposed interests from loss. Under the terms of the clause, the insurer pays for any necessary costs incurred in carrying out the requirements of the sue and labour clause. Thus, if a ship is stranded, under the sue and labour clause the hull owner would be required to hire salvors to attempt to save...

(Italicized portion quoted from Encyclopedia Britannica, not my policy, but there are similar words in my policy.)

In my mind I will always do what seems prudent and practical, as soon as humanly possible, even if it is not easy. I consider this to be basic responsibility. I am greatly addends when I see owners do nothing because they have a secret (or not secret) wish for the boat to be declared a total loss. It's easier for them and safer. But I do not respect that approach to life.
 
#34 ·
Couldn't be happier to find the grounded vessel was recovered. Yea ! Hurray !

Sorry to see this has turned into another "if only he'd had isurance" thread.
But, you "went there" so ....
I'm not a proponent of forced insurance,regardless of the scenario and there are many plausable arguments on both sides.
The ONLY reason I purchase insurance is if I CHOOSE to participate in activities where I must purchase it under threat of arrest,i.e. automotive insurance.
Oddly 2 years ago I was struck from behind at a stop light by an unlicensed driver! My vehicle was deemed "totaled" by the insurance company after they inspected it. The insurance of the other auto owner (not the unlicensed operator) paid me almost as much as I purchased the vehicle for originaly,several thousand dollars. I accepted and repaired it for about $100 and am still driving it today and actually get compliments on what a nice vehicle it is !
I'm not sure what this means,except that it is indicative of the problems w/ waste and exspence of the insurance industry.
Insurance and MANY vehicle/traffic laws did not,will not, and cannot halt unfortunate accidents or incidents like these.
Mandatory insurance laws will make boating less affordable,more regulated,and give law enforcement one more excuse/reason to detain/approach/harass and fine everyone and anyone they selectively choose to. under the justification of Safety and enforcement.
Is this the path you want recreational boating to take ? I don't.
If you are too scared to get out on the water w/your vessel without your insurance underwriter and your attorney, then please, stay in the yacht club dry storage and keep mailing in your checks to your premium and retainer fees.
I, whom enjoy freedom, and am confident my own abilities, as demonstrated by years of adventuring and traveling safely, would prefer to continue to do so, and feel confident that my children will be free to enjoy the same, unencumbered by govermental intrusion brought by those less bold or able.
In Vegas they have a saying "insurance is a sucker bet"
 
#36 ·
I'm not going to re-read the whole thread, but I only remember a couple of brief passing comments about insurance...until you decided to kick the hornet's nest with your lengthy comment.

Frankly I think my annual insurance rate is reasonable and does a good job of protecting my fellow boaters against the significant damage that my boat can do to them, especially in cases where Mother Nature decides to take my boat on a joy ride.

But Human Nature being what it is...

...The ONLY reason I purchase insurance is if I CHOOSE to participate in activities where I must purchase it under threat of arrest...
...which is EXACTLY why I favor mandatory insurance.
 
#37 ·
If you read the attached article from the local paper the bow rail "sprung " back.
Of course I have not personally viewed the damage as "you" apparently have, nor am I sure the reporting is completely accurate as to the amount of damage claimed by the injured party.
I am mearly making judgement on what has been reported second hand.
I am however well aware, as I'm sure many are that the "whiplash" factor must be taken into account when injured parties are questioned about the extent and value of the damages.
Based on the information reported as well as the responses of those in the area I would surmise the injured party may very well be a bit unreasonable based on the oft-reported hostile response to an unfortunate situation.
Or to put it more buntly . the fellow seems a bit of an A**.
What's more , if the injured party was concerned about his hard earned craft and the safety of it, as it is situated on the bank of a public waterway where accidents (quite aparently) coul and do happen.
I would contend that, in this instance, the injured party was culpable by virtue of not adequately preparing himself for the possibility that an unfortunate happening may occur and if concerned with this possibility he was remiss for not taking action to protect himself (by purchasing insurance for himself)!
Possibly the unforsean expense he may now bear could have been mitigated by purchasing the very heralded INSURANCE that many have been crowing about !
The injured party would have been covered. But ,alas, he Chose not to purchase insurance for said incident. As did the fellow whom craft unquestionably caused the damage.
So instead of attempting to influence others to purchase insurance ,those concerned should mearly purchase there own coverage , if they feel so inclined .
simple solution if your scared about it , take your own action to protect yourself if you feel it's justified. the isurance companies will be more than happy to assst you in making an appropriate level and type of coverage you feel you'll need.
In the meantime I'll continue to take the actions I feel the situation merits as has been the practice employed by mariners for centuries. without the need of further intervention/regulation.
 
#46 ·
Well, I read this post twice, and I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.

You state, you don't have insurance for your boat (which by the way is not that expensive..), and your skill and equipment is so superior, there is no chance you will ever damage your boat or others. But we all know S*** happens while boating, and here are two scenarios:
Your boat damaged the hull of the...
1) Oyster 74 anchored leeward of you. Well, the other guy, with the expensive boat will have insurance to cover for your responsibility. His insurance will go up, but not really your problem...
2) Sabre 38 anchored leeward of you. Needs repairs, and new awlgrip, but the guy, like you, decided not to insure(hey, its the other dudes responsibility!). Court decides, your boat broke anchor(despite great skills and equipment), and it's time to shell out the $25k. This is when you will reason, that the other boatowner "did not take action to protect himself by purchasing insurance", and it is not your responsibility.... Think the judge will buy it?
Either way, your screwup was not your responsibility.....
I am cancelling my insurance tomorrow! :rolleyes:
 
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