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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#1,025 · (Edited)
Hei Eric,

By all means that is "much" inside the thread;)

I am not sure the problem is a quality problem, I mean regarding materials and workmanship. For that I would have to visit the boat. This seems to me a design problem. I am pretty sure that the one that have made the sketches for the Dehler interior was the same that made the sketches for the hanse 325. The interior sketches from the Hanse 325 and from the Dehler 41 were previously posted on this thread.

Hanse Yachts

You can see that is the same "artist" doing both drawings. The drawings are not bad but the quality of the design that is behind is mediocre. I had that sensation when I saw the drawings and now I can confirm it with the reality. You can make a drawing look good but you need trained eyes to see if want is going to be built based on that design is going to look good;)

It seems to me that the problem here is a design problem and extensive to Hanse. I don't know your opinion but I would say that technically the quality of the design of their interiors is a lot worse than the ones from Dufour, Benetau or Jeanneau (I am not talking about the quality of materials, that is equivalent). It seems that Hanse decided to take part in the design of the Dehler interior and the results are what we would expect.

They should have put instead the guys that used to design the interiors of the last Dehler designing the Hanse's interiors:rolleyes:

The design of the boat interior is so important that today many boat builders give the interior design to a specialized studio other than the one responsible for the design of the boat (they work together). Most French boats work this way and the difference in design quality more than compensates the extra costs. Design quality can even hide shortcomings in material quality and that's a lot cheaper to have a boat well designed than a boat built with prime materials and a bad design. If you build a boat with prime materials and workmanship over a nasty design...well, it is going to look bad anyway, no matter the cost:D

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,026 · (Edited)
Hi Eric and Paulo,
I have always found Dehlers (of modern age) very dark inside. Dark wood and small windows. Only the cws-range from early 90 is to my liking.

By the way I today finally decided and have signed for a Wauquiez Opium 39, hull 11, to be delivered 2011-06-15. It was a close call with Azuree 40 but the better size for me, lighter boat and much bigger cabin top windows where among important factors.

Regards from the cockpit of my sold Dehler in a natural harbour north of Gothebourg, in beatiful sunshine,
Anders.
 
#1,029 ·
By the way I today finally decided and have signed for a Wauquiez Opium 39, hull 11, to be delivered 2011-06-15. It was a close call with Azuree 40 but the better size for me, lighter boat and much bigger cabin top windows where among important factors.
Congratulations, Anders!
After what I heard and read about the Opium it seems to me you made an excellent choice. And I personally think the Opium also looks much better than the Azuree ;) .

Concerning Dehler, I could'nt agree more. The 39 CWS e.g., dating from the past century, looks much more innovative inside than what Dehler/Hanse are launching today.

But Wauquiez will certainly do an excellent quality job, also of your new interior :) .

Best regards,

Eric
 
#1,028 · (Edited)
Interesting the lounge room look of the insides of a boat is so important to some; maybe if you lived on a boat. To me as soon as I see too much wood I cringe. It smacks of the Marina Trophy Look (MTL) and all too often style triumphs over substance. It’s as if the sailors designed a good boat only to see it destroyed by the interior designers. Then there’s the weight issue; the hull engineer goes to great lengths to minimize hull weight only to see things like 30Kg teak cockpit tables and 11 Kg doors installed (on my boat anyway). Such tables/doors look great in a house but not a boat. Using composite furniture of course goes a long way towards solving the furniture weight issue.

There also seems to be shift from that lounge room look by some designers, B-Yachts and the Pogo for example, where the minimalist looks gives functionality and most of all easy maintenance. If I were to buy a new boat these are the ones I would much prefer.

I would be quite happy with the Dehler furniture look so long as it was light weight, functional and easy to maintain; anything less would be an abomination to a well designed and built outside.
 
#1,030 · (Edited)
Interesting the lounge room look of the insides of a boat is so important to some; maybe if you lived on a boat. To me as soon as I see too much wood I cringe. It smacks of the Marina Trophy Look (MTL) and all too often style triumphs over substance. It's as if the sailors designed a good boat only to see it destroyed by the interior designers. Then there's the weight issue; the hull engineer goes to great lengths to minimize hull weight only to see things like 30Kg teak cockpit tables and 11 Kg doors installed (on my boat anyway). Such tables/doors look great in a house but not a boat. Using composite furniture of course goes a long way towards solving the furniture weight issue.

There also seems to be shift from that lounge room look by some designers, B-Yachts and the Pogo for example, where the minimalist looks gives functionality and most of all easy maintenance. If I were to buy a new boat these are the ones I would much prefer.

I would be quite happy with the Dehler furniture look so long as it was light weight, functional and easy to maintain; anything less would be an abomination to a well designed and built outside.
One of the first boats to use that lounge room look was the Gozzard and that one is not very light:D

Today it is possible to have a good looking interior with very light materials. somewhere back there is a post about the FinnFlyer. Look at the weight of the boat and look at the beautiful interior. That interior is beautiful and light:)

There are many uses for a sailboat but if one of them is living in it for extended periods I will want to have a minimum of comfort and a nice ambiance.

Regarding the Dehler the weight of the furniture would be about the same, bad or well designed.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,033 · (Edited)
Dear friends I would need your support to choose the next boat for living aboard full time.
I have to tell in advance that I dont have enough time to sail far or crossing oceans. I do some nice weekend in the 40 miles radius and some holiday inthe summer, covering a distance of 400 - 500 miles. So my main use of the boat is like a house. In the beginnig I was considering to buy a new boat (azuree or opium) but now I changed idea. I'm considering to buy a Bavaria 49. I'm impressed by the space inside!
I know the quality is not comparable with Hallberg Rassy, but I would like to know some opinion regarding the safety and durability of such boats.
Do you think this is a reliable yacht or I will waste my money buying one?
The general opinion about Bavaria doesnt encourage the purchase, but what is the truth about this boat?
Thank you in advance for your suggestions.

Regards, yus.
 
#1,034 ·
Yus, are you for real?:D

Some posts back you have said:

.. We live aboard our blue water cruiser boat for 9 years and now it is time to buy a new different type of boat. We are very much interested in the new fast cruiser boats below 40 feet, we appreciate the concept and the main features. We need a strong and safe boat which is also suitable to live aboard. I know a 40 feet could be the best solution but our purchase budget is limited and also we need to keep low the expenses.
The Azuree 33 seems to be very attractive (I have read almost all your articles in the thread). In the same cat and range price I have found the Elan 350, which is pretty too. In a different category (cheaper also) there is the Oceanis 34, but I have some doubts about her general building quality and safety. Same feeling for the bigger sister Oceanis 37, which anyway could represent a good compromise quality-living space/price. But the first two boats are much more attractive. An other boat to investigate could be the RM 1050, but I don't know to much about this model. I don't like the galley and the front cabin. I loved the 1200 but out of range.
I would appreciate your comments about what I said and my needs. Any type of support will be more than welcome.
Yus
And now you want a Bavaria 49? what happened to the low budget? even if you are talking of an used boat the maintenance, the insurance and marina costs would be hugely superior.

You say that you have lived the last 9 years on a small boat and now you want a 49ft? Are you going to sail it alone, take it alone from the marina?

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,035 ·
Hello Paulo! I understand you are shocked, but few days ago when I got into a Bavaria 49 I was impressed by the space inside. So I thought "this is what I need in terms of space"! So I'm exploring the possibility to evaluate the purchase of such boat. Of course I mean to get an used one. Budget is still very low, but in the market you can find a good one for 100k€.
That is all. So pls give some opinion about Bavaria on the base of real experiences.
Regards
 
#1,038 ·
I don't think that you can find a Bavaria 49 for 100 000€ at least with the VAT paid. I think it is a 2002? boat and the best I could find was 125 000 € with VAT not paid. There is nothing wrong with the boat even if I would not call it an interesting boat. For a mass market boat is a strong boat that was made primarily for charter work and the fact that it was proven very well and was chosen in large scale by charter companies says well about its robustness. But pay attention, 7 years on a boat doing charter can be the equivalent of more than 20 years of use by a typical owner. Almost all the boats you will find in the market will be of decommissioned charter boats.

As I have said the maintenance of a boat will have to do with size and any 10 year's old 50 ft will have a very expensive maintenance if compared with a new or almost new 37ft.

That's my last advice to you:) , If you want a boat with a very good and big interior to live aboard but small enough to be sailed and maneuvered in a marina by a couple look for an used Oceanis 43 with two cabins. The interior is very well designed and the boat will have more than enough sailing abilities for your program. Probably all the boats you will find in the market with two cabins will not be ex-Charter boats but owner's boats and many of them will be very lightly used. The prices are not bad but well over 100 000€ but not more than what would cost you a new Benetau 37 or a new Azuree 33.

Oceanis 43 / Oceanis / Sailing Yachts - BENETEAU

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,037 · (Edited)
I also tried to find more info for the Pogo 12.50, even if I erlier excluded it from my shortlist partly based on communication with a Norvegian RM1350 ovner. It would be nice to compare ballast ratio and AVS with Opium and Azuree.

He found the 10.50 interior on the pretty new test boat alredy looking very batterned and more important the bare hull and deck visible everywhere causing to much noice and condensation. But if you do not intend to spend an extensive time aboard, and also not in our somewhat colder climate that would not be so important. Design wise both me and wife liked the Pogo interior.

Paulo, I had had so many question rounds with Azuree when you asked for the AVS-curve so I intended to ask for it later, and now when I stepped of the deal in the very last moment, it feels a little silly to do it.

Yes, latest Dehlers, or at least bigger ones before Hanse take ower, have brighter interiors at least as an option. But still they miss out on hull windows, and cabin top windows on a level where somebody less than 2m can see out.

Regards,
Anders
 
#1,041 ·
Thanks a lot, Paulo and Ulf!

These are indeed very similar curves, as one can expect from similar designs.
And I have been already told never to sail except with the keel fully down :D !

Only the absolute values of the righting moment are quite different. Is that relevant from a security point of view or is the shape of the curve most important?

Thanks again for your expert opinions!

Best regards,

Eric
 
#1,042 · (Edited)
Ulf and Eric,

Yes, they are very similar. As I have thought the one from the racing boat is marginally better, with just a bit better AVS. A very good stability curve with plenty safety stability and a good AVS:)

Eric, the numbers are different because those are different curves. The one I have posted is a GZ curve. It is about the size of the arm. the units are meters. The one that Ulf posted is a RM curve. The shape is the same but that one is the one that measures the real thing, the righting moment. The units are Tones for meter.

Regarding what I have said regarding the force that the boat is making to right itself up, to be correct, it is on that curve (RM) that you should measure that. The RM curve is obtained multiplying in each point of heel the GZ by the boat displacement.

And Eric, I am no expert, just a guy that likes to understand things, particularly boats. Experts are the ones that design them;) .

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,043 ·
Thanks a lot again Paulo, for what certainly is an expert opinion.

I think you need to be an expert to point out the difference between the length of the righting arm and the resulting righting moment. And an excellent moderator to explain the correct interpretation clearly in just a few words.
I also very much like to understand things, but this thread helps me a lot to look a bit further than B/D ratio, draft, beam and AVS.

And of course I am now very happy to read and understand that I did not make a bad choice, at least when it comes to stability :D !

Best regards,

Eric
 
#1,044 ·
The greatest sailboat (Cruiser, Racer, cruiser/racer)) under $1Million is the Dragonfly 1200 w/o a doubt. Now if you can live with the price good for you. I feel its about $200k overpriced.

The Sirius Werft 35ds (thanks Paulo)is up there if you have a family to consider along with the Fantasi Yachts 44 Pilot House out of Sweden. Both are the perfect family cruising boats.

Then you have the American classics semi custom (40ft) Morris, Shannon, Hinckleys

For me after that its a toss-up between these boats

Najad 440 CC
The new X-yachts 42c
Pacific Seacraft 40
Moody 45DS

This RM1350 though has some appeal.
 
#1,045 ·
The greatest sailboat (Cruiser, Racer, cruiser/racer)) under $1Million is the Dragonfly 1200 w/o a doubt. Now if you can live with the price good for you. I feel its about $200k overpriced.

....
Welcome to sailnet and to this thread in particular. I think you are exaggerating about the Dragonfly 1200. I think they should make a new boat to replace that one. It is an old one and not really deserving to be among the other Dragonfly. If they gave me to chose between the 1200 and the 35 I would chose the 35 in a heartbeat. The 1200 is slow and heavy, not really faster than a fast performance cruiser like the Pogo 12.50 or the Zou 40.2 and a lot more expensive with no more interior space and a much smaller cockpit. But that is just my opinion. I look forward to the boat that will soon substitute that one (I hope).

For Nemier that is looking to fast trimarans, a new one, the carbon 3 by Nigel Irens. Well it has no interior:D but it has certainly speed;) .





A damed fast 40fter:

Just look at this movie:

YouTube - ‪Carbon3 First seatrial‬‏

Carbon3 by Tuco

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,046 ·
Its funny how ones taste in interior can change. I was involved in the furniture industry many years back and at the time all I wanted was a pale beech or ash interior, alternatively while paint with some simple timber trim a'la Herreschoff.

Since owning Raven I've come to revise my thinking. She has a dark timber interior and rather than being oppressive I find it calming and surprisingly enough no great problem in warm/hot weather.

Our new boat is also dark timber interior. She has in effect a fully enclosed cockpit and my gut feeling is that we will spend most of our time up there even in winter as the enclosure with it solid screen is to a large extent a deck saloon with a drop top.

Anywho, Chimbatete, you overlooked one obvious contender from your list ..

Malo

This is the new M40 which replaces the M39.

 
#1,049 · (Edited)
Andrews,

The reason there are not Malos on this thread is because they have not a new model for ages (they only change each model once in a decade:) ). The last one was the 37, three years ago or something like that (great boat). Has you already know, when that 40 come to the market (6? years ago) that was my dream boat. It has still one of my preferred interiors. I love their saloon table system. Even if the standard boat comes with mahogany but as you know there are a lot of different types of mahogany and the one they use it is a clear type of mahogany, much clearer than the one that was used on the Dehler and in many boats, like the Bavarias for instance.

Today I favor a faster boat but I have still a soft spot for the Malo 40;) and if I could I would have a faster boat with the building quality of the Malo. But I can't, it would cost a fortune (it would be a Luffe or a X-yacht).

Regarding the 39, It has a great interior, not different in style or quality from the one from the 40:

By any chance do you know this boat:D :D :D :D

YouTube - ‪Malo 39 hand built in Sweden by Team Windcraft YT.m4v‬‏

It has a cozy and good looking interior;)

That's the teak platform that I was talking about (on the other thread):





The Classic version is much more beautiful, has more storage space but as you are going to find out, it is not easy to come aboard from the dinghy, groceries and all. This nice platform removes that inconvenient.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,047 ·
I did exaggerate abit on the 1200. They do need to change it up. The DF35 is kinda the perfect size but the seperate cabin of the 1200 is just a a major plus and very unique (which fits this thread).

I find the Malo's and HR's interiors not to my taste. I prefer the modern open interiors like the Najads, Hanses, X Yachts. The No-frills (Ikea) interior of the RM's works for me. Although the Morris 42 interior is drool inducing.

Silly question for you guys, big open cockpits thats found on cruiser/Racers like the x-yachts etc, good for the open ocean?
 
#1,048 · (Edited)
I agree with what you say about the interior space of the Dragonfly 1200. That's why I really would love a new one, lighter and with a performance close to the 35, even if I will never be rich enough to have on unless I win the lotery:D

I can understand your taste for less classical design on the Najad interior but mixing Hanse's interiors and Ikea style (and quality)? Nah, you can have the Hanse's interiors to yourself (and that's a big advantage to like that because they are a lot less expensive).

I have to say that even if I like some modern interiors I like also the warm that a classic interior provides. I would have changed most modern interiors by the quality and coziness of a Malo interior. I partially agree regarding the Halberg Rassies. Great quality quality but an overall worse design quality if compared with Malo's.

Take a look at this Malo interior. I would not mind to live there permanently ;)

YouTube - ‪Malö 47‬‏

Regarding the open cockpits, the answer is yes. These boats sail fast with bad weather and you will never be hit strongly from behind by a wave but if a lateral small breaking wave hit the boat laterally, in a closed cockpit boat you will have tons of water on the cockpit that will take time to go away. In the meantime you have a boat with a damaged stability. On an open cockpit the water comes in...and go out in a split second. Regarding going overboard, you should be clipped to the boat in bad weather, so that's irrelevant.

For me the ideal situation is an open cockpit with a seating bench on the back. Most of the boats that have an open cockpit offer that as an extra.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,050 · (Edited)
Paulo,

Seems to me that a boat with an open cockpit with enough weight is the way to go for offshore contrary to what you read in forums like this one.

I'm pretty new to sailing (5 years) starting crewing for my wifes uncle. I sail in Lake Ontario and I'm surprised that even hardened racers of 30 years have never ventured out of the lake. At the same time 70% of the boats are C&C and CS. But in a way its a good lesson on following reality (what you are really going to use the boat for) instead of fantasy (rounding cape horn) when getting a boat. But to me, I want to be able to know that I can reach the Carribean in our winters when I get older given the option.

Anyway, my contribution being from Canada. (Underrated country with great boat building traditions.

The Gozzard 41. I love this family run company and with their bulletproof hulls and innovative interiors. Highest quality throughout. It just seems like a very traditional slow boat and I also cant afford one.

YouTube - ‪Gozzard 41.mov‬‏
 
#1,051 · (Edited)
....

Seems to me that a boat with an open cockpit with enough weight is the way to go for offshore contrary to what you read in forums like this one.

...
Weight as little to do with offshore sailing. There are heavy boats that are pigs as well as light boats.

Take a look at this light boat and this solo sailor on the roaring fifties. Is not this seaworthiness enough for you? Is this not a great offshore boat?

YouTube - ‪Beluga Racer in Southern Ocean‬‏

YouTube - ‪Southern Ocean‬‏

Note that this boat is solo sailed, it means that sometimes he just take a bit sail out, put the auto pilot and is going to sleep, letting the boat take care of him...without loosing too much speed.

This boat is very similar in stability and seaworthiness (a bit faster) to one popular blue-water performance cruiser that is one of the favorites on this thread, the Pogo 12.50.

Regarding Canada you have one of the best builders of the Farrier and the one that has made the first Farrier 39:

The New F-39

Yes the Gozzard has a great interior, but regarding the rest in what regards hull, keel and performance is a boat from the past.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,053 ·
It has always bothered me that most think an offshore boat has to have a long keel and a displacement/length ratio over 300.

To me an offshore boat has to be strong, have a fast draining cockpit, an easily handled rig, and things like handholds in the proper place. But it does not have to be a heavy boat. And fast is good!
 
#1,056 ·
More information about the Salona 38:

Weight : 6300kg (less 400kg than the 37)

Ballast with 1.98M keel :2270kg (more 70kg than the 37)

Draft options: 1.75m and 2.25m

Beam: 3.62m (more 2 cm than the 37)

LWL: 10,15m (more 20cm than the 37)

Sail Area: 88.40m2 (more 2.70m2)

So, less 400kg of weight, more 70kg of ballast and more sail, this is going to be a FASTER boat and the 37 is a Fast boat:D . It will be also a stiffer boat with a better ballast/displacement ratio, 34% a bit better than the average for this type of boat. And the boat is a looker also. Pity the stern. This boat deserved a more modern one.







 
#1,059 ·
Man oh man you just have to love that foldaway swim/boarding platform.

Oh well , time to sell the old girl and buy a new one. :eek::eek:

Actually this might work and is what I may do. That way I can keep the vane steering, though I lose the ability to fold away. I'd like to keep the vane, at least until I have had the chance to try it out. If we did dispose of the thing the platfor will still work.

 
#1,060 · (Edited)
Andrews,

Yes, that is a good solution at least till you or your wife gets bruised on that menacing wind vane and you find out that it is of no or little use:D I hope it will be a small bruise;)

That way you can always remove the wind vane without losing the platform. But consider what I have said regarding not to be a completely closed platform, like that one, but one made wit a teak grid, like the ones you have in some heads. I think it is important to diminish the force made in the transom in bad weather and big waves.

You may think I am exaggerating, but let me tell you a story: Old "Traineiras" (Portuguese fishing boat) maintained this beautiful long stern even when they lost sails and were only motor boats:





Till they found out that in very heavy conditions that could be a liability. Several sterns broke when on huge waves all the weight of the boat stand on the stern (we have sometimes big waves along the coast). The boats were not new, but that was a weak point and they finished with that stern design (they used to built them here in Peniche).

The force that is going to be made upward on that platform when the boat is passing a big wave will be probably more than the one that is made there with two people standing. Make sure the design is up to it in what regards not only down force but also upwards force...or have a teak grid.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,061 ·
Paulo,
I agree re grid. Steel structure will be to Malo specs.
Cheers
Andrew
(Now get back on topic ... :p)

though I do thank you for your advice. :)
 
#1,062 ·
Showed spouse the Evosion 34 pics last night, YUCK!! was her comment, inside was not very salty, boaty, ala lots of teak or equal wood type stuff.......harrumph! oh well, not that I could afford one, or an X as she likes........can always dream!

Marty
 
#1,063 ·
Hey Marty, you are going to love this one, a small boat, the Juwel 28 also known as the Broker 28. Never heard about it till I saw an interesting movie and thought: a hell of a boat:D .

It is a Danish boat. I love Danish boats, it is incredible how such a small country as so many great boats (X yachts, Luffe, Faurby, Nordship). This one is a 10 year old design but is just beautiful. Enjoy the videos. Nice music too;)

YouTube - ‪Team ICE Mors Cup 2009 - Fast sailing, 35 knots tws‬‏

YouTube - ‪GoPro HD as headcam - racing with teamice.dk‬‏

Juwel 28





Regards

Paulo
 
#1,074 ·
Hey Marty, you are going to love this one, a small boat, the Juwel 28 also known as the Broker 28. Never heard about it till I saw an interesting movie and thought: a hell of a boat:D .

It is a Danish boat. I love Danish boats, it is incredible how such a small country as so many great boats (X yachts, Luffe, Faurby, Nordship). This one is a 10 year old design but is just beautiful. Enjoy the videos. Nice music too;)

YouTube - ‪Team ICE Mors Cup 2009 - Fast sailing, 35 knots tws‬‏

YouTube - ‪GoPro HD as headcam - racing with teamice.dk‬‏

Juwel 28





Regards

Paulo
oh man, how would that be for around the buoys and/or a bit of club twilight. Sweet as.

Now what about the Cigale - very nice indeed. Has the feel of the Steve Dashew Sundeers in some ways.
 
#1,064 · (Edited)
First Jeanneau 376 photos and more Drawings.

The boat does not look bad but the high free-board is a lot more apparent than on the Jeanneau 409:(

After the Jeanneau 409 it would be difficult to do better or even just as good. The interior looks good, but nothing outstanding. The port hulls on the saloon are high and will not provide a good view from the outside. The Galley seems very good for a 38ft, with lot's of storage space. The head, on the two cabin version seems also very good for the size of the boat, with a separated shower. The interior of the 2 cabin version is much better: Nicer saloon with two berths instead of one and much better head.

The keel solution with a center board is very interesting, providing as bonus two rudders.

On the short draft keel (the one that is posted) the rudder is about at the same level as the Keel. I don't like it and seems dangerous to me in case of grounding. This means that probably that boat has a good wheel control but also that the designer have designed it with a deeper keel, the one that is standard, with 1.95m. I would not have the boat with the 1.50m keel, what they call a lifting keel, that is in fact a short keel with a center board seems a better solution to me.



























more photos here:

YouTube - ‪New Jeanneau Yacht 379 Sun Odyssey Sailboat for sale By: Ian‬‏
 
#1,067 ·
Too early in the morning for me right now, and a few stressfull things going on, so probably not seing the differences right now. Apologies to all danes I insulted!

Back to finishing a few work things, boat things, maybe a weekend of rest and no stress! maybe.......

Marty
 
#1,068 · (Edited)
Marty,
Danes are from Denmark, Dutch are from Netherlands, they are neighbors and that means that in their long past they had necessarily some conflicts between them. A bit like calling Spanish to Portuguese or calling Texans, Mexicans, if you follow my drift:D

Netherlands also makes some very nice boats but they are a lot more conservative and they have being paying for that. Their production and number of boats has decreased.

Attention to all of you that like beautiful well made blue-water boats with a traditional outlook: take a look at the boats that are made in Nederlands.

They have a big problem however, like all boats make this way, they are expensive.

Some Dutch boats:

Contest Yachts | Home

Victoire Yachts

C-Yacht zeiljachten | Zeiljachten van klasse uitgeroepen tot zeiljacht van het jaar

Home

Atlantic Aluminium zeiljachten | home | Atlantic Yachts

Breehorn Woudsend

Naamloos document

Bijko Jachtbouw - home Noordkaper 40

Zeiljachten

Regards

Paulo
 
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