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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Swivel Shackle or Not?
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Thread: Swivel Shackle or Not? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-14-2013 12:36 PM
Reef33
Re: Swivel Shackle or Not?

Since we're on the subject of swivels, does anyone have an opinion on whether to use an eye-to-eye or an eye-to-jaw type swivel on a mooring chain? I had read somewhere that someone did not recommend using the eye-to-jaw type, but they didn't give a reason.

If you use the eye-to-eye type then you have to use an extra shackle, so I don't see the benefit of doing that. I actually can't see a reason to not use a jaw-to-jaw swivel and eliminate the extra shackles altogether. Thoughts?
08-13-2013 09:54 PM
RobGallagher
Re: Swivel Shackle or Not?

I had an oversized swivel shackle on my rhode. When I transferred it to my new (to me) boat with an anchor roller I found that it created more problems than it ever solved.

My mooring does have a huge swivel, but that's semi-permanent so it needs one.
08-13-2013 07:27 PM
JonEisberg
Re: Swivel Shackle or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierradave View Post
I'm just off the phone with Lewmar tech support, because I've been having troubles with my new anchor rode (50' chain, 200' rope) jamming on retrieval. He highly suggests the swivel, because the rope wants to twist (or untwist) as it gets paid out or pulled back. That all gets "pushed down the line" to the chain, and the anchor has way too much inertia to be spun around so the twisting gets bottled up in the chain.

From that advice I think I'm going to go ahead and add the swivel, sizing it as large as I can to attach to the chain. I may just keep it on there for a while, in hopes that the twists inherent in a new rode all smooth out over time. (For now we're just in San Francisco Bay; we're upgrading things before the big cruise.)
If you're having a problem with 'twist', I'm assuming we're talking about 3-strand rope, no? In that case, it's a bit surprising to hear such a recommendation from Lewmar...

Because, the use of a swivel with 3-strand rope will allow the rope to begin to 'unlay' under extreme loads... Not likely to be a problem in ordinary anchoring scenarios, but I certainly wouldn't want to head off on your big cruise with such a setup...

HyLyte is right, if you're gonna be using a mixed rode, brait is the way to go...

Next time you're out sailing, you might try trailing your rode behind you for awhile, might be a short term solution to eliminating some of the twist in your new rope...
08-13-2013 06:54 PM
svHyLyte
Re: Swivel Shackle or Not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sierradave View Post
I'm just off the phone with Lewmar tech support, because I've been having troubles with my new anchor rode (50' chain, 200' rope) jamming on retrieval. He highly suggests the swivel, because the rope wants to twist (or untwist) as it gets paid out or pulled back. That all gets "pushed down the line" to the chain, and the anchor has way too much inertia to be spun around so the twisting gets bottled up in the chain.

From that advice I think I'm going to go ahead and add the swivel, sizing it as large as I can to attach to the chain. I may just keep it on there for a while, in hopes that the twists inherent in a new rode all smooth out over time. (For now we're just in San Francisco Bay; we're upgrading things before the big cruise.)
If you are determined to add a swivel, use a short length of chain between the anchor and the swivel such that the swivel cannot be subjected to side or prying loads, which are a major contributor to their failure. Using "Brait" rather than 3-strand eliminates the issue of twist in rope rode; and, takes less space in one's chain locker.

FWIW...
08-13-2013 12:50 PM
sierradave
Re: Swivel Shackle or Not?

I'm just off the phone with Lewmar tech support, because I've been having troubles with my new anchor rode (50' chain, 200' rope) jamming on retrieval. He highly suggests the swivel, because the rope wants to twist (or untwist) as it gets paid out or pulled back. That all gets "pushed down the line" to the chain, and the anchor has way too much inertia to be spun around so the twisting gets bottled up in the chain.

From that advice I think I'm going to go ahead and add the swivel, sizing it as large as I can to attach to the chain. I may just keep it on there for a while, in hopes that the twists inherent in a new rode all smooth out over time. (For now we're just in San Francisco Bay; we're upgrading things before the big cruise.)
06-09-2011 09:10 AM
SVAuspicious If you bring your anchor up at a measured pace, any twist in the chain will have a chance to unwind as you spray our glorious Chesapeake mud off. *grin*

My last boat had a swivel that came with the boat. My current boat doesn't have one and I don't miss it at all. Fewer pro's than con's in my mind.
06-09-2011 06:14 AM
Omatako I've never used one before, don't use one now and probably never will. And my anchoring is not something I worry about now. It may be if there's a swivel in play.

It's an additional expense I can do without.
06-09-2011 05:01 AM
john1066 I'm with JE and the other anti-swivel guys on this one. Keep it simple by using a bow shackle.
I put the pin of the shackle through the anchor. Some people don't do this because if you use a shackle bigger than your chain size, as often recommended, the shackle won't go through the chain link. For this you need an oversize end link.
The reason for preferring the pin through the anchor stock is to do with bearing surfaces; the straight pin gives the best contact with the parallel sides of the hole through the shank. It just looks better fron engineering point of view.
06-09-2011 01:20 AM
jrd22 When I bought our Bruce 30kg I asked about swivels at a large local marine supply. I knew the fellow behind the counter had been around for a long time and had talked to him about different pieces of gear from time to time, a very knowledgable guy. Instead of giving me an answer about swivels he reached under the counter and brought out a horribly mangled and broken, large, heavy duty anchor swivel (an expensive stainless one, don't remember the brand). I don't use one. Even with all chain rode and anchoring extensively I don't have any problems getting the anchor up into the roller.
06-09-2011 12:26 AM
tdw
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
They have absolutely NO value, IMHO - other than perhaps allowing an anchor to "flip" over into the proper orientation when coming up over a roller... Anyone too lazy to deal with that manually, well, they deserve whatever might be the result of introducing something as needless as a swivel into their ground tackle system....

There have been many documented instances of failures of swivels, their main problem stems from the difficulty of properly inspecting them, many of the components are hidden from view even upon dis-assembly... And, if you're using hi-test chain, chances are any appropriately sized stainless swivel will be the weakest link in your system... ACCO makes a hi-test galvanized swivel sized for 1/4" hi-test, otherwise they are extremely hard to come by...

Boggles the mind how often I see swivels clamped right to an anchor , without any intervening bow shackle, just begging for a side load upon the anchor stock to pry the jaws of the swivel apart, or induce an eccentric load on another part of the swivel, a disaster waiting to happen...


KISS, a single bow shackle between anchor and chain, there is no reason to add additional complexity and potential points of failure, IMHO...

Here's just one recent cautionary tale:

Latitude 38 - 'Lectronic Latitude
There you go. A number of instances of failure. Interesting.

Thanks for that JE.

Have to say I've never had any particular problem in maintaining anchor orientation and that covers Danforths, CQRs, Rocna plus very lately a Bruce and a never used Spade.
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