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  Topic Review (Newest First)
1 Week Ago 03:30 PM
capttb
Re: To capsize or not!

I always figured it must be near impossible to capsize a keelboat or I'd have done it a couple times by now.
1 Week Ago 02:59 PM
capta
Re: To capsize or not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnstratarrow View Post
I had the same Neptune 24 in Everett for many years, shoal draft keel and all. During those years I had the occasion to be in some fairly heavy winds including a severe storm which came up suddenly on a clear May afternoon and ultimately cost the life of a crewman aboard a much larger sailboat which was racing around Hat Island. I found that yes, the boat is initially very tender owing to the shoal keel, but then it will harden up at about 30 degrees and simply luffing the main in puffs should be adequate to keep her on her feet. The sail area/displacement ratio is right in there with most cruising sailboats so there's a very wide safety margin built in. As I remember the boat came with a 130 genoa so buying a 100% jib may be the answer to your concerns with a knockdown, however I don't really believe this boat can be knocked down. She has a very strong weather helm and will round-up first.
In all honesty I wish I'd purchased the fin keel model as I've heard they're not as tender and also quite a bit faster, albeit my partners thought they wanted to gunk hole in the Juans so having a retractable bilge board sounded good to them. Live and learn.
Ultimately, you have a very solid little cruiser that I can tell you from experience will take a lot of punishment and if tuned correctly, will sail quite well at hull speed. Hope this is a help. John Lewis
Very nicely stated.
1 Week Ago 01:15 PM
Barquito
Re: To capsize or not!

Quote:
Uncontrolled roundups are also a good sign that you waited too long to reef.
Another one is, if a snorkel is required to crank on the leeward winch, you should reef.
3 Weeks Ago 08:21 PM
Arcb
Re: To capsize or not!

Keel boats are generally pretty tough to capsize by wind alone. Often as the boat flattens herself out, the wind will naturally dump out the top preventing her from turtling, but a boat laying on its side can have the cockpit flood eventually causing the boat to downflood and sink.

If the wind is gusting hard enough to cause concern, it's time to reef, don't wait till you have 50 gallons of water in your cockpit to reef.

Uncontrolled roundups are also a good sign that you waited too long to reef.
3 Weeks Ago 07:48 PM
Johnstratarrow
Re: To capsize or not!

I had the same Neptune 24 in Everett for many years, shoal draft keel and all. During those years I had the occasion to be in some fairly heavy winds including a severe storm which came up suddenly on a clear May afternoon and ultimately cost the life of a crewman aboard a much larger sailboat which was racing around Hat Island. I found that yes, the boat is initially very tender owing to the shoal keel, but then it will harden up at about 30 degrees and simply luffing the main in puffs should be adequate to keep her on her feet. The sail area/displacement ratio is right in there with most cruising sailboats so there's a very wide safety margin built in. As I remember the boat came with a 130 genoa so buying a 100% jib may be the answer to your concerns with a knockdown, however I don't really believe this boat can be knocked down. She has a very strong weather helm and will round-up first.
In all honesty I wish I'd purchased the fin keel model as I've heard they're not as tender and also quite a bit faster, albeit my partners thought they wanted to gunk hole in the Juans so having a retractable bilge board sounded good to them. Live and learn.
Ultimately, you have a very solid little cruiser that I can tell you from experience will take a lot of punishment and if tuned correctly, will sail quite well at hull speed. Hope this is a help. John Lewis
07-09-2011 04:13 PM
eddie nelson Seat time is the key with anything. I cant wait to start learning and practicing.
07-07-2011 02:44 PM
chrondi I would not suggest to force by all means a fixed keel 20+footer to capsize. Such boats do capsize but this is rather the result of a combination of wind and waves, i.e. a potentially dangerous situation if no other boat is nearby ready to help. The tendency of the boat to turn to windward is her designed natural defence and filling the cockpit and cabin with water doesn't cover any meaningful learning need. These skills are rather acquired by means of dinghy sailing, not with heavier boats!
07-05-2011 06:24 PM
deniseO30 When I had my H23 We were hit with a gust.. took us to starboard. sails out and boom dipping.. Wind kept us down but the boat just slowly moved into the shallows of the river. Nothing I did mattered Other then when in "doubt, let out" the boat basically saved herself! All in about maybe 2-5 minutes. I've never feared heeling since!
07-05-2011 04:40 PM
turbulicity 20-30 degrees of heel may feel like much but your keel ballast have just started working at that point. What you have, as pointed out above, is probably an initial stability issue which will happen if your boat is not very beamy or has a round underbody. You will find that capsizing a keelboat is harder than one might think.

Even my sailing dinghy without a keel surprised me. You step on it and it feels like it will roll over on slightest imbalance. Feels much more stable when heeled under sail.
07-05-2011 02:23 PM
hellosailor Mark-
"What does it really take to capsize a boat "
One good squall, that's all.
Consider the J/24 which was considered "uncapsizeable". Squall line came through the NY/NJ area in the 90's while a fleet was out racing, put one over on her ear, water came in through the cockpit lockers and flooded the boat out below. Capsized. And that's not the only one.
Push hard enough, and anything goes over. Most stuff also rolls back upright, if you have prepared the boat. That can mean sealing lazarettes off, or at least securing their covers, and putting in the companionway boards in rough wx.
The capsize ratios give you a way to compare you boat to others, and to see how much push it will take to start it over. But as long as you don't plant the mast in the mud, you can take reasonable steps to ensure it will keep rolling right over and come back up again.
Some boats have high "initial stability" meaning, you step aboard and they don't rock. Others are tender and have more "form stability" meaning, they'lleasily roll and put a shoulder to the water, and then dig in and remain stable at that heel angle. Most are one or the other these days, very few are actually tender AND tippy AND inclined to keep rolling on over.
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