SailNet Community - Reply to Topic
Thread: Production Boats and the Limits Reply to Thread
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.

User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:


Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.

  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below

  Topic Review (Newest First)
14 Minutes Ago 06:17 PM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Sorry Out I missed this post....

Unfortunately the boatbuilding industry here in Australia is on it's last legs.

The only boats getting built here( or in NZ) are one off's or very small niche runs which = $$$$
Whilst you're correct that yachts built here tend to be small-run high-$$$ vessels, in fairness to the industry, it simply doesn't make sense to make high-volume sailing yachts in a country where (a) cruising options are severely limited and (b) the only serious racing action is a trip to Hobart once a year. Each of those criteria mean those folks with money to spend generally have their own requirements on what they want their vessel for - and it's been that way ever since the sailing boom post WWII eg. my boat was specifically designed for cruising Sydney Harbour and Pittwater with the occasional stint down the coast. That doesn't mean it's unsuitable for a Tasman crossing.. just that it's designed for a specific set of wind/weather/sea conditions requested by the original owner.

Yes, there was a boom-time in the '70s soon after the trailer-sailer was invented (in New Zealand) that resulted in a high demand for small cruising yachts, but with a smaller market than Europe and the US and faced with high shipping and labour costs it was never going to last. Perhaps that's why folks like Ron Holland and Bruce Farr left when they did?

Interestingly though, Australia has several high-volume luxury powerboat and power-yacht manufacturers that export to the world: Riviera (built on the Gold Coast) being perhaps the biggest of them.

Maybe the market here right now is for people who can only cope with the wild blue wet stuff for the shortest time possible?!?
8 Hours Ago 10:01 AM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Many thanks for that update. Sure makes me feel good.
I never thought of the Valiant 40/42 as "beautiful". I think it's good looking but that cabin trunk has bothered me since the day I first saw it. I went back to the office and pulled out the drawings and asked myself, "Did I really draw it like that?" I turned, looked myself squarely in the eye and answered, "Yes." But I learned a lot on that deck and apparently it still works ok.

Glad so many people appreciate the boat. It's nice when I don't have to manufacture my own "glowing reports".

This is not the original sail plan. I gave that to a friend in Poland to hang on his wall. This is a later sail plan I drew for Valiant's founder Nathan Rothman. I like it. I was pretty good at hand drafting. Lots of love and attention to detail in that drawing. I have enjoyed my work.
8 Hours Ago 09:35 AM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Chall- beautiful well thought out vessels. The B52 is gorgeous but I'm in the same boat. Money buys comfort not happiness. If wishes were kisses. Showed the bride some pics of the CF cutters. She said " doesn't make the sunsets prettier". From the little you posted about your search I'm sure you will pick a great boat and have too much fun. If you buy in the Newport area (other than winter) or the Cheasepeake during late summer early fall please PM me. Love to take you out to dinner.
There's a Valiant 50 in my current yard which is structurally sound. Young family lived on it one year. They trashed the sole and interior but with elbow grease could be brought back to its glory. Was repainted so exterior is a very pretty blue. Heard it would sell for short money
We hope to do the carribean again and then maybe South Pacific. Maybe buddy boat next year.
11 Hours Ago 06:53 AM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Originally Posted by outbound View Post
What local boats are built in series down by you? The only things I've seen from NZ and Oz have been one offs and beautifully done.
Sorry Out I missed this post....

Unfortunately the boatbuilding industry here in Australia is on it's last legs.

The only boats getting built here( or in NZ) are one off's or very small niche runs which = $$$$

Buizen make beautiful boats but at a premium that places them well beyond the average cruiser.

The comparative equivalent of Outbound yachts here is perhaps Bluewater.
They have been hurt by the high Australian Dollar over the past couple of years. They build solid no fuss cruising boats for people who actually want to go cruising.

Unfortunately these and other local offerings are premium priced and firmly out of our budget. Older boats here also seem to still be asking( but maybe not getting?) silly money.

Which is why we are looking at Moodys on the other side of the world
18 Hours Ago 12:27 AM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Thanks for the feedback Bleems. That's what I want to hear.
Here's a bit more "feedback", Bob...

Just staggered in from the final awards ceremony and dinner of the Caribbean 1500... The crew of the good ship VALHALLA were the Last Men Standing at the beach bar after the festivities tonight...

Your Valiant 42 took 2nd place in the Cruising Division B, behind the Swan 48 ISBJORN owned by the rallymanager... finishing 2nd was essentially preordained, a bit like being the runner-up in a golf tournament organized by the Supreme Leader of South Korea, in which he shot a final round score of 18...


But VALHALLA's owner also took home some additional silverware, receiving a more 'democratic' award decided by a vote of the rest of the participants in the fleet...

On our chart table sits a silver plate that reads:

2015 Caribbean 1500 - MOST BEAUTIFUL YACHT

I'd bet the voting was close to unanimous... All week long back in Portsmouth, I''d meet people, and the response was pretty much always the same:

"Whoa, you're sailing on VALHALLA ? Damn, you lucky bastard, I LOVE the look of that boat, what a sweet ride that's gonna be..."

To some of the more 'shallow' Bluewater Chuckleheads amongst us, looks still count for something...

1 Day Ago 06:04 PM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
In comparison taking a boat to Phuket from here would be a fairy party.
Light winds and mostly day sails. As long as your AIS worked your biggest issue would be having enough beer, fuel and ice.

This illustrates the silliness of the term 'bluewater'.
Agree totally!

FWIW, where I sail (Port Phillip) is classed as 'open water'.. Yachts have sunk and people have drowned here even before you get to Bass Strait, although none of it is necessarily dangerous - you just really need to know what you're doing and have an intimate knowledge of the local weather patterns.

Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
I am more impressed with the Hanse circumnavigating Australia than I am with the Hanse's doing the ARC.
Personally, I'm impressed with anyone circumnavigating Australia in anything. It's not just the boat - it takes a determined and very well-prepared crew also. Besides the dangers of the Bight and the south coast in general, the North West Shelf offers little or no shelter and no harbours to speak off for hundreds of miles at a stretch.

The East Coast is the easy bit.
1 Day Ago 05:57 PM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

At the risk of putting more fat on the fire would say a cruising boat's sailing life is often more arduous and needs more safety quotients in its construction.

The race boat is pampered the cruising boat often is not.

A boat maybe raced for a few years then downgraded to cruise. A cruiser has a longer horizon. Sails are replaced every season or less.

Simple things like having the rig always in tune or having the sails always in balance. God bless the crew of that Hanse.

Would say the overwhelming majority of the time cruising boats on passage they are on the AP. Most the times on a bearing not a wind angle. As much as a captain rags on crew to look at the sails, take it off AP frequently and feel the boat it doesn't happen enough.

Whereas racers may change out headsails cruisers may give it a wrap. Often too many wraps so sail shape is lost. Many don't carry multiple headsails making due with a genny alone which wears and gets blown out. Sails are used well past their expiration date.

Often due to schedule or money or time or lack of expertise maintenance is deferred or done incorrectly.

All too often I past cruising boats on their ear when I'm reefed and flat. Which boat is working harder?

Boat handling with full experienced skilled crew makes for less bumps and bangs. Boats spending much of their lives in cradles don't get banged into by other boats.

Clean bottoms and running gear makes for less stress on mechanical elements. Cruisers may haul when they can- where they can. Full hauls and repainting may occur a couple of years apart with just rubs and zincs done on dives in between.

I've had idiots having done all the ASA courses on my boat. Racers are usually more competent. Example- after fighting to go to windward for three days going from R.I. to Norfolk through unending line squalls wife said " go below you are exhausted. You need to sleep". Turned boat over to a crew. Told him" no closer than 45 apparent, leave double reefed main up and engine on, wake me if it builds more than current , otherwise wake me in 3h". The line jumped out or was pulled out of traveler jam cleats. Main was slamming back and forth. Woke me to find him running straight into the wind revs up from usual 2100 to 3200 and boat launching off waves to keel stub. This would never happen on a race boat. Don't get me going on powered winches in the wrong hands.

We cruisers learn from our mistakes and we make quite a few but the rock star racers make less and have more resources at hand to fix them.

So I don't buy a boat campaigned by skilled, well funded racers with access to the best yards suffers the same kind of day in day out abuse a cruising boat maybe exposed to. I don't subscribed to thinking the rig, sails and hull of a race boats in the hands of a skilled full crew has the same torture a cruising boat has.

I don't think the beercan racers who can scrub when it blows see the weather the cruisers do.

Yes someone sailing the Southern Ocean is seeing unimaginable forces but we don't cruise the Southern Ocean too often. Yes, there is less force when you aren't always pushing the boat but I think for a variety of reasons having nothing to do with boat speed cruising boats are often ridden hard and put away wet.
1 Day Ago 05:13 PM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Originally Posted by RobGallagher View Post
I don't think the family in question circumnavigated Australia. They sailed around part of australia. I sail around New England, that does not mean I make long passages or circumnavigate much of anything.

However, as they could have been in some barren places, I stand corrected.
My turn to stand corrected.

I was vaguely aware of this boat through friends etc and before they left on that trip and my recollection was that their plan was to circumnavigate Australia.

What they did do is cruise the East Coast( Which we have also done as with our family).

While no small undertaking and the Tasman sea particualrly can bite, you are correct in saying it can be done with only a few overnighters and the northern 1000nm is in semi protected waters behind the Great Barrier Reef. A far cry from the southern waters of Australia.

In which case I leave you with another Hanse 445 I know of.

Charm Offensive sailed from Europe to Australia (with it's rudder bearing intact).

Charm Offensive is sailing the world | Sailing a Hanse 445 from Europe to Australia
1 Day Ago 04:21 PM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

The only other autopilot I trusted completely was a Robertson that was spec'd for a North Sea trawler. Rock solid.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
1 Day Ago 04:00 PM
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Thanks for the feedback Bleems. That's what I want to hear.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome