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Cal 21 Keel

23K views 57 replies 10 participants last post by  smrozek 
#1 ·
I am planning to doing some work on the keel of my Cal 21. I have done a thorough online search in hopes to gain some more info but have come up a bit short on detail. The keel leaks when the boat is heavy or has decent speed. I believe the leak is coming in around the pin. I plan on removing the fiberglass around the pin to get a better look to see what surprises I might find. If anyone has worked on their keel and has some advice please get in touch. I would love to have pics, advice, anything before getting started.
 
#27 ·
Looking good! Also let me know if there is anything you need. I can take pictures/get measurements off of mine for you as well.

I meant to reply to that PM, but I don't have 15 posts... which is weird, because I sent it to you. Maybe they changed the rules.

Anyways, the boat looks like it's coming together. Are you going to rebuild all the wood interior as well? If so, I'd be very interested in how that goes as mine is almost due to be replaced.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Well we have launched and been out twice in shakedown sails!:) No leaks anywhere. There is only one thru hull location and that is for a depth sounder. But I don't have a battery so not sure if that works yet.
Unfortunately the wind was howling and the Hudson was in heavy ebb mode both times, YIKES! As I was not reefed the first day I ended up doing a lot of luffing - not used to the serious heeling that was happening. I suspect the boat will stop at heeling at some point, but unfamiliarity with her characteristics except what I have read, "tender", I was a bit chicken:eek:...so to speak. Wind was gusting mid 20's:eek: first day. I tried to put a reef in the main second time out, but must confess again, lack of knowledge didn't give me a very clean sail. Wind subsided and I shook out the reef. Soon wind was up again and as I was beating back up river got a little hairy. Boat is very responsive to the tiller and turns on a dime. There is a tiller tamer on the boat but not sure I like the mixup of main sheet and tamer lines. I expect to install hardware to lead halyards back to cockpit as too short(me) to reach mast even through the open hatch. A proper roller reefing/furling setup on jib might be called for, but not sure I want all that weight hanging on or near the jib stay. Enough for now. Best all, rippy
PS. Not sure the keel was completely down as the hole for the locking pin is not really visible. I suspect that the keel might be butting up against the pin(if there is one in there) before fully down. I know doesn't make much sense, but anything possible over 40 years!
 
#30 ·
Rippy, per the pin hole. When my keel was down all the way I couldn't see mine either. I had to put the winch back on it and slowly winch it up a little at a time and go check the hole. Eventually I got it lined up, but the pin hole was full of rust/crud. About 15 minutes of filing it out got the pin in.

How much heeling were you experiencing? I had mine out a while back (5-10mph winds) and she was doing a nice 15 degrees until a gust hit me and sent her over a good ways (also found out at that point I have a nasty leehelm I need fix). I was also a little worried as she didn't take but a split second to heel over and it definitely gave the sense she wasn't going to stop. I have seen some posts though from other people on here that she will have heel like a beast and not tip if needed.
 
#31 ·
Yes yes, tender for sure. I watched a lot of Bonita's videos with little kids and all out there in socal and seemed very peaceful. Guess that's the Pacific. Let's see, how the heel felt? About 75 degrees! I was standing on the side of the cockpit seat:eek: In the mean time I have discovered that the main can be reefed on the roller boom - very cool. Will try tomorrow with 20 mph winds forecast. Regarding the keel pin...my pin hole is totally covered up so have no idea what's going on in there. I went over the side the other day and it looks like the keel is fully down. Need to check some more. She is such a sweet little boat I want to make her shipshape. My daughter arrives from Anchorage tomorrow and we will put her through her paces. Daughter teaches sailing up there. Will see if she comes back up without luffing:laugher I have play in the pintle/cudgeon area that I will have to fix, but haven't noticed any heavy helm pressure so far.
 
#33 ·
She's in the water! ...but yet to sail. We took an educated guess on the locking pin location and well, we came up a little short or better yet long. I jumped in the water last night and was able to adjust the keel so that the lead is horizontal. We can see the locking pin hole by shining a flashlight through the trunk when it is dark in the cabin. I will head out tonight to drill a hole. Also, there is still tension on the winch line so the keel is not fully extended.
 
#34 ·
In the water is where a boat belongs. Congrats! Interesting about that lock pin hole. After I suggested where it might be I was looking at your pics again and thought that I saw your drill just finishing the job on the trunk. Guess not.
I have to believe that either 1. your wire is too short(that would be easy). 2. Something is jammed up in the trunk(no big deal). Or you have the pivot bolt in the wrong spot(Yuk!):eek:
Didn't get out much when daughter was here, but last night went out with 20+ gusts and learned a bit more. I had the smaller of my two foresails on, but still too much. When I dropped it, not easy in those conditions when solo, the main did just fine. Must confess that I forgot about the roller boom or i might have tried it. I wonder how you lock it in once rolled:confused:
Have decided that I need roller furling/reefing for the jib, or at least run the halyards back to the cockpit and put a downhaul on the jib.
 
#35 ·
Rippy - regarding the keel not fully extended, this is pretty typical from the post I have read on locking the keel in place. The trunk allows the keel to pivot further than it needs to be whether it was designed that way or not I don't know. I speculate that it was otherwise if the keel winch let go and the keel dropped uncontrollably there would probably be a giant whole in the hull. I know dropping the keel like that can still cause damage...I'll try to post pics again soon! Sounds like you don't have any trouble finding the wind!
 
#36 ·
Feast or famine here on the Hudson. I don't mind sailing in big steady winds, but gusts are another thing and as I am 100 miles north of NYC just east of the Catskills we get gusts. Aha, I see what you are saying - the keel is not supposed to fully extend into the trunk. Instead the pin should lock it a bit below that point. So much to learn, so little info available. Good there are more than one of us out there!
 
#37 ·
Well, I did a quick test sail this morning. The keel is locked in place...I went with a piece of brass based on a thread I read somewhere. I am interested to know what the original locking pin diameter is. Anyone know? In the picture there is a large nylon gasket around the locking pin. I think I am going to try and find a larger diameter pin for the long term.
 

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#39 ·
It is 3/16in so it is a bit small. In the keel re-build process we ended up putting some filler that was then drilled out over the locking hole...From a thread on the cal 21 site I read someone using a 1/4in brass. Apparently the original is 1/2in. It's easier to make the hole in the trunk bigger rather than smaller which we plan on doing. Rippy, is the pin you have 1/2in?
 
#40 ·
Yo sailnova, I have no idea about the size of the locking pin on my boat. In fact I doubt if I have one. The keel trunk is all covered over and solid where the pin should be. When I launched the boat I just lowered the keel til it stopped moving. I think it is fully down which would indicate that there is no pin and that a prior owner must have just decided to glass in the opening where the pin access was. Pretty bad I guess, maybe I'll put it right this fall. She sails pretty well even with a permanently attached wire down to the back of the keel. Maybe next year? I have another little cruiser and a Hobie that I sail.
 
#42 ·
sailnova, looking again at the last pic you posted I see that there is a wooden board alongside the trunk which must support the compression post. My boat has a substantial wooden platform on top of the trunk which the post sits on which allows the entire top of the trunk to support the post. Just for your general info!
 
#43 ·
We've been out a couple of times in light wind and the boat is performing well. The locking pin is holding for now. The previous set up had a couple of metal plates to put the pin through...We will probably take a closer look at our options when time allows.
 
#44 ·
I thought I would post a quick update on the boat renovations. She's been in the water now for several months. I'm happy to say that a few drips might make it through the pivot pin area but it stays pretty dry even under decent win gusts. It is obvious that we are going to have to provide some support perpendicular to the trunk as you can see it flex! I will probably pull her in a few weeks and get back on the rebuild of the interior.
 
#45 ·
Help needed with lifting a Cal 21 Keel!

We have a fellow in our marina who just underwent heart surgery... We are trying to help him pull his boat for the winter. We are looking for a picture or very accurate description of where we need to attach the lifting cable from the winch. We have the Y rod, "fished around" for quite some time... no luck. Can we just remove the lock down pivot bolt and (gingerlyl) pull her onto her trailer?

ANY help would be MOST appreciated!

Clueless in Pennsylvania!
 
#47 ·
Sailnova, thanks for the immediate reply... Any pictures of what we are trying to snag? Your mooring hook answer suggests that there might be ring of some sort. (we found another style of mooring hook that works very well--I'll post a link as soon as I get back up to my boat to get details.) In the meantime, no wetsuit and the water is very cold here now... We'll dive if we have to, but brrrrr! It is great to see any boat this well loved. I've not sailed a Cal 21, but looking forward to doing so.
 
#48 ·
My Cal21 has a notch about 3" up from the tip of the keel that the cable loop hooks in...you need to be positive that the cable is hooked right...if the cable slips off the keel and the keel swings out of control...well...that may be the end of that boat...lots of the keels have custom cable hooks...and at 40ish years old, there is no telling what's been done.
 
#50 ·
Photos

You might be able to see it if the water is clear enough. In the photo there is a shackle that my winch connects with to raise and lower. I have never tried to remove the winch line because diving in seems like the easiest way to reattach. Good luck and if you need more info I'll try to help.
 

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#51 ·
Wow! Thanks. This is great info... We believe that we have found a notch on the back of the keel. Saturday has snow in the forecast... Perfect day to dive and make sure that we have the cable securely attached. What we have read about dropped keels is pretty harrowing. The picture is a tremendous help. We'll keep you posted. Think warm thoughts for this weekend.
 
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