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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > 35 morgan keel bolts
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Thread: 35 morgan keel bolts Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-05-2011 03:18 PM
deniseO30 My boat has an encapsulated keel, mystifies me how it stays there. lol.. I can't think of anyway to make things "stronger" since it's a fin keel too. But as it's far from a new boat. I would think something is going on with the hull and weight of the keel. We faired the joint or what ever it is on hull bottom when we did the barrier coat. Going on 3 yrs now The fairing is still "fair" and seems undisturbed,
08-05-2011 04:44 AM
HDChopper Denise sounds like it would do the job given the correct hardware & cross dowel material and relead all needed openings after the repair was done ...

Now if the keel bolts were wonky loose and let the keel rock & roll for a while then the stub would need to be trued to keel step.....
08-04-2011 11:21 PM
deniseO30 I don't see why a threaded cross dowel (not wood of course) wouldn't work for new or old keels The cross dowel could be very large even. and the threads for the keel bolt would go through from the keel stub. Or? does lead start to "give" after a given amount of time since lead is so soft?
08-04-2011 08:42 PM
SloopJonB
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean burney View Post
if i dont find them i guess i ill have to sister some in beside th L bolts cant wait to get started
There is a fastener called a HANGER BOLT that has SAE threads on 1/2 the length and lag screw threads on the other 1/2. If available in the diameter you need, you could drill the lead for lag threads and just use nuts & washers inside the boat. This could be adequate for sistering fasteners on relatively small boats
08-04-2011 08:37 PM
SloopJonB
Quote:
Originally Posted by dean burney View Post
has anyone ever seen a lead keel that had bolts instead of lL shaped rod set into the keel form then poured it should be possible to use pockets set into the lead and then washers and bolts when i pull her up in sept im going to look for the pockets first if i dont find them i guess i ill have to sister some in beside th L bolts cant wait to get started
Post #7 in this thread has a llink to Mars Metal in which there is a writeup about this. I've never heard of it being done as an original process, only as a repair. If you tried to pour a keel this way you'd have to have some sort of blanks in place when you poured the lead, then remove them after the keel cooled and was pulled from the mould - more trouble than it would be worth I think. Lead keels rarely need new bolts.
08-04-2011 04:30 PM
hellosailor I'm pretty sure I've seen writeups of removing and replacing conventional keel bolts in a lead keel. the process consisted of finding out what length the original bolts were, measuring down to the approximate bottom on the keel, and then drilling in from the side to expose the "bent" part of the bolt. At that point the bolts are cut and pulled up from the cabin side. New bolts can be installed and then new lead poured or epoxy used to reseal the keel.

I'm sure I'e seen it someplace, if you need a professional opinion ask the folks at MARS METAL, they've made the keels on a lot of boats and they do a lot of custom keel work.
08-04-2011 04:13 PM
dean burney has anyone ever seen a lead keel that had bolts instead of lL shaped rod set into the keel form then poured it should be possible to use pockets set into the lead and then washers and bolts when i pull her up in sept im going to look for the pockets first if i dont find them i guess i ill have to sister some in beside th L bolts cant wait to get started
08-03-2011 05:16 PM
deniseO30 Plus.. in Iron it's easy to drill and tap to the next size up! or even metric (kinda in between standard sizes) Thanks so much!
08-03-2011 03:36 PM
SloopJonB
Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
That's just so hard to believe! How deep did they go?
I can't remember for sure, 5 or 6 diameters IIRC. This can fool a lot of people - they are so used to lead with very long bolts buried deep, but into iron you don't have to go so deep. If you think about it, there is only the thickness of the nut holding the top so why would you need to go deeper at the other end? In reality, cast steel or iron is softer than the material used for the nuts so you DO have to go deeper but not like a foot or more. At first glance it does seem very counter-intuitive - a big weight like that should have HUGE bolts going all the way through or nearly so but it ain't so.

Some keels, like on a Thunderbird are held on by big flathead machine screws through a flange so they only have the countersunk tapered head and the nut absorbing the tensile loading. My keel is a bit similar in that it also has a foot wide flange with two rows of studs 10" apart transversely down each side. The difference is that mine are studs tapped into the flange, not machine screws going through the flange.

When I pulled them I was surprised at both their diameter and the depth - they both seemed very skimpy based on gut feel only so I did a lot of research and found it was very standard engineering (some of the figures are in my earlier post). The fact that the severely wasp waisted and corroded originals held it on without leaks should have been the tipoff I guess.

By the way, this was done with the keel off - they were so waisted that I doubt I could have done it in place - they would have snapped at the corroded level. Being able to grab them below that made all the difference I think.
08-03-2011 03:04 PM
deniseO30 That's just so hard to believe! How deep did they go?
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