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Legal advice needed

8K views 55 replies 36 participants last post by  TakeFive 
#1 ·
I towed my boat to Galesvelle , Md in March to have an engine refit done. Was told 6-8 weeks but vague about the price. Arranged for the new engine and propeller shaft to be delivered in early May.

The marina called me in mid-June and said the boat was completed. I drove 3 hours from home to find the boat in the water and the engine on the cabin floor. I called the marina and they said they were told by the mechanic the install was complete.

Two months later after many phone calls, e-mails and broken promises the mechanic said he was ready and I drove down again at the beginning of August only to find.....the engine on the floor.

Towards the end of August the marina calls me to tell me the mechanic drilled thru the transom to replace the exhaust (w/o my knowledge or consent) and wanted to put the boat back in the water w/o fairing or gelcoating the area.

I stopped all work on the boat and asked for bills-the mechanic had the wrong boat manufacturer on my bill as well as being well over the vague verbal estimate I received. He claims he sent me a corrected bill that I have never seen.

The mechanic has placed a lien on my boat and placed it up for auction.

Will lawyers cost me more than paying the inflated bill and lien fees? Can I recover my legal fees?

Thanks,
George

Lesson learned, get the estimate in writing.
 
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#3 ·
What a nightmare. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that paying for an hour or two of an attorney's time to figure out your best course of action would probably be money well spent. He/she could give you some solid advice and then you would know where you really stand.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you.

Dave
 
#4 ·
Not enough info to form an opinion. I'm not a lawyer & I never played one on TV. With that out of the way here's my thoughts for what it's worth.

Assumption - Talking to a lawyer is gonna cost ~$500 (hour talk + retainer)

1. Worth of boat?
2. Size of bill from mechanic?


Questions:
Gotta wonder how he got a lien so quick? Your post implies that you got the bill a month ago.
What does this mechanic claim to have done? You say the engine is on the cabin floor that's not much work.
Why a new exhaust hole??
How involved is the marina in this?

Sorry to hear about this sort of trouble. Good luck,
Brian
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies.

Worth of the boat, $25,000. The new engine alone was almost $10,000.

The bill $5000.

The engine was installed but the hole they put into the transom for the exhaust has yet to be faired and painted.

The engine has never been started and no sea trial attempted though the sea trial is mentioned on the bill.

The marina supports me as much as they can. I have even paid for the extra haul out the mechanic said he paid for and am now paying for being on the hard.

George
 
#6 ·
Also not a lawyer....

What an awful story. Does the mechanic work for the marina?

Would paying a lawyer simply to draft a letter to the parties involved be enough to give them pause? Is there any way to challenge a lien like that? I too wonder how that all happened so quickly.

Lousy place to be... my sympathies.
 
#9 · (Edited)
You should negotiate a resolution on your own.

Bringing a lawyer in for $5000 wont make any sense...the lawyer will want $200-250/hour and it will take a 3-4 hours just to come up to speed and draft anything, probably more unless you are lucky enough to find a lawyer who has expertise in marine related disputes. You will be out $1-2000 just to get to the talking stage.

An actual attempt to take this issue to court would cost as much as the disputed amount or more. You wont have a shot at recovering your legal fees.

I always think advice to get a lawyer for this type of dispute comes either from folks who have never done so, or from someone who is a lawyer...
 
#11 ·
You should negotiate a resolution on your own.

Bringing a lawyer in for $5000 wont make any sense...the lawyer will want $200-250/hour and it will take a 3-4 hours just to come up to speed and draft anything, probably more unless you are lucky enough to find a lawyer who has expertise in marine related disputes. You will be out $1-2000 just to get to the talking stage.

An actual attempt to take this issue to court would cost as much as the disputed amount or more. You wont have a shot at recovering your legal fees.

I always think advice to get a lawyer for this type of dispute comes either from folks who have never done so, or from someone who is a lawyer...
I think those estimates are too high. Maybe I've been fortunate, but I've found that when I needed legal advice, it hasn't been terribly expensive and has saved me money over the long term. A good attorney will be able to give you solid advice, and several options, with just an hour or two of billable time. Often, as Paul said, you can get a good estimate and some suggested direction without being billed for it.

Considering the boat is about to go to auction, the OP needs some good ideas and needs them quickly. It sounds as if he has already tried to work with the mechanic but that hasn't gained him anything.

Good luck.
 
#10 ·
My two cents...speak with a lawyer. There are lots of reputable lawyers who will chat to you, and give you an estimate of their costs (and likely process), without charging. Although I respect the people who say don't hire a lawyer - they may well be correct - calling one or more, chatting to them, getting free advice - that will help you to decide if *hiring* a lawyer makes sense.

You may also want to investigate the lien process in your state. In CA, there is a fairly long process which begins with the submission, and then includes a grace period for the owner to dispute, or otherwise settle, the lien.

Finally - as others have said - move fast on this. The longer you leave it, the greater your risk.

(disclaimer: Not lawyer, so not legal advice - just opinions! Good luck!!!)
 
#12 ·
Pay for 1 or 2 hours of lawyer time, it may be your best investment.

Prepare for the meeting;
Write a one page history from your perspective.
Take copies of all correspondence, invoices, estimates,..
Take the original of the notice of lien.

Pay the lawyer to write a letter to the mechanic with copy to the yard.
 
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#13 ·
First of all call the police, and let them investigate if they will. I doubt it but it's just a call, or visit to the station. Also call a lawyer referal service, and there is a huge discount for an hour of counseling, or maybe 30 minutes. Maybe he will make a call too?

These people need to know you're not pussyfooting around, and get on it right now, and no later. There are also lawyer's advice on the internet from lawyers. Open all doors, and don't take no for an answer. The sqeaky wheel gets the grease.........i2f
 
#14 ·
Try Maryland DA or Consumer Affairs whatever they have there. In most places a lien can't even be legally issued without a writing i.e. contract or other proven signed obligation.

Those two are free. If they don't step up see a Maryland lawyer. You might be able to show criminal conspiracy between the yard and the bozo and wind up winning bigtime.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I have filed mechanics liens against clients (some are still clients). I don't take it personally and neither did my clients, its just business.

Filing a lien requires a lot of documentation including some form of written contract and documentation of the work done, payments received and invoices not paid.

Each state has different requirements. Take to a Maryland attorney with mechanics lien experience.

Mechanic's Liens in Maryland - Fullerton Law This is mechanics lien in construction.
 
#16 ·
FWIW $5,000 is the figure I would have thrown out for the install of a new engine...I dont understand why the OP has such difficulty defining what the mechanic did or did not, or what money was agreed to. There may be a rotten apple in this arrangement, but as far as I'm concerned, the OP has offered no real evidence to understand who that rotten apple is...
 
#17 ·
The mechanic got the boat in March. I was told 6 - 8 weeks for the install. This is now October.

I was told the boat was ready in June and again in early August only to find the engine on the cabin floor. I missed the entire summer.

I asked for everyones bills the end of August and the mechanic sent me a bill with a different make of boat. Rather than sending me a new bill he filed a lien.

There are other inconsistencies in the bill. In June I would have written a check and sailed away. This is October.

The engine has never been started and a sea trial never arranged or completed.

Hope that clarifies things,
George
 
#21 ·
I was told the boat was ready in June and again in early August only to find the engine on the cabin floor. I missed the entire summer.

I asked for everyones bills the end of August and the mechanic sent me a bill with a different make of boat. Rather than sending me a new bill he filed a lien.

George
Two thoughts....When I read your complaint I thought the engine was never installed, but now apparently it has been installed. The second thought is that the mechanic might be confusing your boat with another and is putting the lien on the wrong boat. FWIW
 
#19 ·
I'm a contractor and have filed liens on a few buildings. In real property a mechanics lien can be placed on almost any building with very little justification to why a lien is being filed. However, if I file a lien, there is NO way to force a sale of the property. The only way I can collect on it is when the owner decides to sell it. To complete the sale, they have to satisfy all liens on it. Of course I get the lien amount plus interest. Its funny how people come up with money quickly when they need to..

However, unless the law is different for boats, they can't sell the boat just to satisfy their lien. Negotiate with them and get the work done as needed.

As stated, I'm a contractor, not an expert in Maritime law (or any law) so it could be different, maybe someone else knows....
 
#20 ·
Try avvo.com

You should discuss your situation with a lawyer licensed in Maryland.

You could also try posting this as a contract law question on avvo.com in the Maryland lawyers section. Avvo is a relatively new, nationwide, Web 2.0, lawyer (and doctor) directory with system-generated ratings, client reviews, and a question and answer section:
:) http://www.avvo.com/free-legal-advice?ref=header_navbar
 
#22 · (Edited)
George,

I feel your pain but, I'm not clear on what the real dispute is.

From what I can gather from your posts so far, you already paid for the engine and the Bill is for labor and material to install. You didn't obtain a quotation, rather it was an vague estimate, I assume on a time and material basis? Did you sign a release that allowed him to start work based on the estimate? ( I have to sign a contract/release for any work done on my boat by the yard)

The engine has now been installed but not tested because it's on the hard, and needs some work to fair the exhaust port.

Is the fairing of the exhaust port something the mechanic would do? Or would that require another contractor? Was the hole necessary to install the engine properly?

I think it's important to understand exactly what resolution you are seeking?

It sucks, that the season is lost, but I don't think you can expect a bill reduction or compensation for that. While you were very badly treated IMO, in a sense, you allowed it to continue, The mechanic could have been discharged the 1st time.

The mismatched name of the boat sounds like an clerical error but probably doesn't relieve you of the debt.

If you didn't receive the corrected/adjusted invoice ask for a copy..and go over it with the mechanic. If the sea-trial is on the invoice and it hasn't taken place yet, it's reasonable to ask to have it removed. Are there any other discrepancies?

It sounds like all you need to do is fair the hole, splash the boat and start the engine..and negotiate a fair settlement of the bill. I get that you are pissed, but throwing money at a lawyer will not get the season back for you. Do you think there's enough money in... actual..dispute to make it worth the time, energy and expense?

Best of luck to you! There's always next season and you will have a new engine!
 
#23 ·
I am a lawyer. I have no experience in marine law, other than owning a sailboat. I understand everyone's frustrations with lawyers and costs, but agree with some of the earlier posts that you should see one. A good lawyer will give you the lay of the land (legally) and outline your options. You can then make a decision on what you want to do. Most of these initial consultations will cost you very little, or nothing. I get a lot of people who ask me to "just write a letter", and I understand what they think will happen, but it usually doesn't. Find a local, well recommended and get an hour of his/her time. Then, you make an informed decision. Bring all docs and specifics when you go to that consultation. You'll get better information that way. Good luck.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Right or wrong, the mechanic has a reason for thinking they are right or they wouldn't have filed the lien. There is no one on the water without a collection of miserable boat yard experiences.

I once received a refund after paying an inflated bill in full. I was hanging in the slings waiting to take her away when presented with a bill for twice the estimate. Pay it or no splash. I paid, but wrote to the President and threatened to post my estimate and bill on the Internet for others to see how long they claimed a very straightforward job took. This was routine maintenance, by the way.

If he had a counter argument, I'm sure he would have just come to the forum or Active Captain to dispute his position, but he knew his guys were wrong. He refunded half the bill that I already paid in full.

You might consider having a discussion with them that you plan to out the details, copies of your bill, name of the yard and mechanic, etc. However, I would not threaten anything I wasn't will to do and you will have to consider their rebuttal, which only you know at this point.
 
#25 ·
It's funny, in a way, how we respond when there's "matters of the law". If we broke our leg, would we start a thread on a community web page and ask about how to proceed, or would we see a Doctor and get it fixed? More often than not, we would see the Dr., but when it comes to matters of law, we're quicker to follow the advice of absolute strangers than to seek a professional. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the profession gets a pretty bad rap from the minority's actions. I do know this much, if we postpone seeing the Dr. for the broken leg, then that problem will become much bigger (read more expensive), the longer we wait. I'd say the same applies here.
 
#26 ·
There is no one on the water without a collection of miserable boat yard experiences.
Me. This is one reason that I do my own work. Less stressful, cheaper, and a good workout.

I have no legal advise to provide because I am not an attorney. But my brother was an attorney and I learned from him that establishing an honest dialog can break through many log jams. It is necessary to remove ego and I'm-Going-To-Win-itis from the equation. I've seen this work many times professionally and personally. I would recommend talking with the mechanic, in person, while standing in front of the boat (so there is no confusion regarding which boat).

Good luck, I feel for you.
 
#27 ·
GB,
I would do both, first get an open and honest dialog going with the mechanic but also research the lein/auction process either with a lawyers help or on your own, the internet is wonderful.

One things for sure if the lein is enforceable and the boat goes to auction there would now be a third party's interest in the boat and a lawyer would certainly be required to get it back. And that would be messy and expensive.

John
 
#28 ·
I've told my agent, I refuse to even play a lawyer on TV, it might ruin my reputation.

"first get an open and honest dialog going with the mechanic "

But I'm sure the first thing an attorney would say, is DO NOT CONTACT THE MECHANIC because anything you say can and will somehow come back to bite you. Contact the authorities and the attoreny first, and then if they say to contact the mechanic...that's something else again.

If the guy somehow "finished the job" twice while leaving the engine in the middle of the cabin floor, his communication skills maybe in question. Among other things.
 
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