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Interesting Sailboats

3M views 7K replies 205 participants last post by  tdw 
#1 · (Edited)
Sirius 32, Sirius 35

THE OBJECT OF THIS THREAD:

Interesting sailboats in production and available on the new boat market (only boats with modern designs, meaning that the boats still in production but made with old designs are out). Recent designs out of production are also admissible.

Modern boat designs and modern one off, if interesting.

Classical boats and traditional boats.

Small cruisers (less than 35ft)

Seezunge 27ft: PG1-PT9

Hanse 325: PG19-PT185;

Presto 30 : 33-326; 33-327; 34-331; 34-333; 55-543; 55-544;

Tess Yachts: 37-366; 38-373;

Tess 28 Magnum: 37-369; 38-371;

Delphia 28: 38-373;

Vancouver 27/28 : 42-412; 72-717;

Cruisers between 35ft and 49ft


Catalina 355 : 31-306;

RM sailboats: PG5-PT41; 5-42

RM1050: PG5-PT46; 5-47; 5-48;

RM 1060: PG8-PT77; 8-78; 8-79; 8-80; 9-81; 30-295; 40-400; 79-786;

RM 1200: PG9-PT84; 9-85; 19-184; 20-191; 20-192; 41-404; 42-414; 42-418; 43-425; 43-426; 69-688;

RM 1350: PG9-PT82; 55-549; 95-943;

Morris Yachts: PG7-PT61

Bavaria 36: PG19-PT188; 19-190; 20-196;

Bavaria 40: PG10-PT95; 28-278; 29-281; 29-282; 29-283; 29-286; 32-316; 36-356; 51-502; 51-507; 52-518; 53-527; 53-532;

Bavaria 40s: 69-685; 78-775;

Bavaria 45: PG10-PT96; 19-190;

Rustler Yachts: PG11-PT104;

Jeanneau 409: PG11-PT103: 11-106; 30-298; 30-299; 36-356; 51-502; 51-504; 51-505; 51-509; 52-513; 52-514; 52-515; 52-516; 53-527; 54-532; 57-564; 57-570; 58-571; 58-580; 59-581; 59-583; 59-585; 62-614; 74-739; 91-906;

Jeanneau 439: 40-396; 40-397; 59-584; 59-585; 96-956;

Hanse Yachts: 16-154; 16-156; 16-158;

Hanse 400: 81-804;

Bluewater cruising yachts: 21-206

Beneteau Oceanis 37 : 31-306; 31-308; 31-309; 32-314; 55-541;

XC 38: 36-356; 96-954;

Diva 38: 39-386;

Diva 35: 40-391;

Dufour 405: 62-614;

Defline 43: 63-622

Walkabout 43: 93-923; 93-925; 93-927;

Small performance cruisers (less than 35ft)


Performance 32ft test: 29-87;

Sun Fast 3200: PG4-PT33; 4-34; 4-36; 30-293;

Elan 210: 70-691; 70-696; 78-779; 79-781;

Elan 310: PC7-PT64; 7-69; 8-71; 36-356; 41-408;

Quest 33: PG7-PT62

Olea 32: 25-243; 25-245;

First 27.7: 38-373; 38-380; 39-382;

First 30: 30-295; 39-356; 41-408; 55-545; 55-546;

Comet 26: 34-340; 35-345; 35-350; 36-353;

Pacer 30: 36-357;

Django 7.7: 40-399;

Vivace/Evosion 34: 45-442; 45-446; 45-445; 45-446; 45-447; 45-448; 45-449; 45-450; 46-458; 46-460;

Finn Flyer 34: 46-451; 46-453; 60-593;

Salona 34: 46-457;

Heol 7.4: 63-621; 63-622;

Azuree 33: 87-867; 91-902; 91-904;

JPK 10.10: 88-877 ; 88-880; 89-883;

Performance cruisers (between 35ft and 49ft)

Pogo 10.50: PG2-PT20; 3-27; 3-28; 3-30; 4-35; 5-50; 6-51; 6-52; 6-60; 11-101; 11-107; 11-110; 43-425; 44-440; 87-861; 87-867;

Pogo 12.50: PG13-PT125; 20-198; 20-199; 22-214; 27-264; 27-265; 27-269; 32-317; 32-319; 43-425; 43-426; 43-428; 44-432; 44-437; 44-439; 55-546; 55-547; 82-812; 84-831; 87-870;

Este 40: 89-890; 90-893; 90-899;

A35: PG5-PT42; 5-44; 66-660;

A40RC: 92-914;

Hammerhead 35: 64-645

Opium 39: PG5-PT42; 9-85; 9-89; 13-125; 22-220; 22-221; 43-426; 55-547; 86-857;

Aerodyne 35: PG7-PT62

Elan 350: PG7-PT64; 13-24; 13-126; 13-127; 13-128; 14-132; 18-178; 26-255; 36-356; 40-398; 41-405; 57-564; 59-589; 60-591; 72-711; 73-724; 74-738;

Elan 380: 23-223; 25-249; 26-256; 40-398; 59-589; 97-962;

Elan 410: 32-316; 79-784;

JPK 110: PG9-PT85; 10-91

Olea 44: PG10-PT100; 27-268;

Olea Yachts: 25-247;

Dufour 40e: Pg13-Pt125; 32-316; 55-547; 56-558; 56-559; 57-561; 57-562; 57-563; 59-586; 59-588,

Salona 37: 36-359; 41-406;

Salona 41: PG15-PT141; 15-145; 32-316; 36-356; 40-398; 54-538; 57-569; 78-778; 80-796; 80-798; 97-965;

Salona 42: PG15-PT145; 36-359; 40-398; 93-929; 94-932;

Cigale 16: PG15-PT148; 16-152; 17-161; 55-549; 63-625;

Cigale 14: PG17-PT163; 55-549;

Santa Cruz 43: PG17-PT169

Sydney Yachts: PG18-PT171; 18-175;

Sydney GTS 37: 43-423;

Sydney GTS 43: PG18-PT173;

Winner 12.20: PG20-193;

First 40: 31-304; 32-313; 32-316; 35-344; 36-354; 55-546; 55-547;

First 35: 36-356

Dehler 41: 30-296;

Dehler 44: 79-785;

Dehler 45: 36-356; 79-785;

Luffe 40.04: 30-300; 31-301; 31-303;

XP 38: 56-533; 56-544; 56-555; 67-622;

XP 44: 33-325;

Pacer 430: 36-357;

Pacer 376: 36-357; 66-652; 69-683;

Faurby 424: 36-360; 37-361; 37-363; 37-365;

Comfortina 39: 40-395;

J 133: 43-426; 63-620

J 111: 100-993;

Maxi 11: 99-982;

Arcona yachts: 46-456;

Arcona 410: 47-467; 47-468; 47-469; 48-471;

Arcona 430: 48-472;

Arcona 460: 50-495

Finngulf yachts: 46-456;

Varianta 44: 60-594; 60-595; 60-596; 60-597; 60-598; 64-639;

Imagine 53: 63-628;

Zou 40.2: 63-620

Ker 39: 68-676;

Finn-Flyer 42: 77-762;

Azuree 40: 85-842;

Loft 40: 85-848; 85-852;

Vivace 35: 90-895;

Sailing boats over 49ft

Zeydon 60 : PG 12-119;

JP 54: PG18-PT172;

Salona 60: 70-695;

Stadships: PG20-PT193; 20-195;

Pogo 50: 32-318; 32-319;

X-50: 54-537;

Murtic 52: 54-537;

Decksaloons and pilot house sailing boats

Sirius 32: PG1-PT1

Sirius 35: PG1-PT1; 1-10; 2-18; 50-491; 50-492; 60-559; 60-599;

Sirius 31: PG1-PT5; 2-17; 36-356;

Regina 35: 48-478;

Regina 40: PG11-PT104; 49-481; 49-483;

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Luffe 43DS: PG12-PT111; 12-115; 50-494;

Noordkaper 40: PG14-pt139;

Noordkaper yachts: PG16-PT155

Nordship 36: 30-297; 49-482;

Nordship 38: 49-482; 49-490;

Paulo's pilot house I: 38-376; 39-381; 39-383; 39-384;

Paulo's pilot house II: 69-682

Lyman & Morse 45: 38-379;

CR 38DS: 48-477; 48-478;

CR 40DS: 48-476; 48-478; 48-479; 50-494; 50-496; 50-497; 50-498;

Arcona 40DS: 50-494;

Racers

Figaro 2:pG4-PT36; 4-37; 5-42; 6-52; 6-53; 6-55; 6-56

VOR 70: PG16-PT160; 17-187

Farr 400: 67-661

Soto 40: 96-952;

Lifting keel/centerboarder

Southerly yachts: PG11-PT104;

Allures 45: PG10-PT93; 100-996;

Allures yachts: 25-248;

OVNI 425: 23-228;

OVNI 395 : 68-679; 69-690;

J 108: 67-661

Atlantic 43: 68-67

Boreal 44: 97-970; 98-974;

Multihulls till 34ft

Several Trimarans: 28-273;

Multihulls with 34ft and over

Dragonfly yachts: 26-257;

Dragonfly 35: 26-258; 27-261; 27-262;

Dragonfly 1200: 56-551;

Corsair 37: 28-276;

Farrier 39: 28-277;

Challenge 37: 28-278

Hammerhead 34: 29-385;

Hammerhead 54: 29-288; 30-292;

Trimax 10.80: 29-285;

Sig 45: 54-534; 54-539; 54-540;

Gunboat: 56-551

Fusion: 56-551;

Outremer: 56-551;

Tournier: 56-511;

Classical and Traditional boats

Jclass boats: 54-537;

Tofinou 12: 71-703;

Folck boat: 73-727;

Puffin Yachts: PG14-PT135; 14-138; 16-155;

Bestwind 50: PG12-PT116; 14-123;

Bestevaer 53: PG12-PT116;

Bestevaer yachts: PG16-PT155

Cape George 36: 41-410; 42-412;

Marieholm 33 : 42-412;

This list is not actualized. Please use the advanced search engine of the thread with the name of the model and builder. It works, most of the time.

(actualized till PG100) and it will be no more because that gives a lot of work (500 pages now).

Instead I am actualizing the titles and with the right title the thread search engine (not the one on the top of the page bit the one much below that says search thread) on its advanced option works quite well.

Hello,

Melrna posts on Miami Boat show and the comments of Smackdady about the interest of that thread lead me to think that perhaps I could share more information about sailboats I know and find interesting.

I am interested in boat design (interior and sailing performance) and I go each year at least to one of the main European Boat shows and that means basically Dusseldorf, Paris or Hamburg. On these shows you have the opportunity not only to visit the boats of the main and medium size builders but you have also the opportunity to visit the boats of small and sometime family shipyards.

Normally they build very good sailboats and sometimes they have been doing that for decades. The boats are hugely appreciated by their faithful customers but because they don't advertise their boats and there are very few on the used boat market, they pass unnoticed by the majority of the sail community.

The visit to these boats is a very rewarding experience because they are made with passion by true boat lovers and because when you talk to the guy that is on the boat, you are not talking with a dealer, that many times doesn't know much about boats, but with the builder, or the designer.

Even if you are not a buyer they will have real pleasure in talking with someone that really appreciates and understands their work. Those guys really believe in what they are doing and they do it the best way they can, no matter the cost. In a word, they are in love with what they are doing.
Of course, these boats have to be expensive.

This thread will be mainly about these boats, as a way of letting you know about these gems. Let's see if you are interested. I will not post much. If you want to know more you have just to participate and make questions.

The first one it will be the "Sirius". I have had the pleasure to visit several times their boats and to talk with the builders (father and son).

These boats have the best interiors you can find, or at least that I have seen. Not only the quality, but the design and ergonomy are fantastic. You really won't believe you are in a 32ft boat. Just incredible and amazing; Have a look at it:

Sirius-Werft Plön | Forecabin | 32 DS for 2 forecabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Owner´s cabin | 32 DS 4-berth comfort owner´s cabin
Sirius-Werft Plön | Workshop | 32 DS for 2 workshop

Now that the son is in charge they have modernized the outside look of the new boats, they look fantastic not only inside but also outside. The boats sail well and they have clients as far as Japan.

Sirius-Werft Plön | Versions of decks house | You have the choice

Another interesting point is the way they develop new boats. They work with the clients to collect suggestions on the shape and design of the boats. A truly interesting affair, between passionate clients and passionate builders.

Sirius-Werft Plön | 35 DS | Philosophy

Take a good look at their interesting site and if you find the boat interesting, please let me know, I can add some information.

Sirius-Werft Plön | english | Welcome at website of Sirius-Werft Plön

Regards

Paulo
 
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#1,545 · (Edited)
Slap,

Thanks for posting about the PT-11.



Lovely boat but with all the problems trimarans have versus same interior sized monohulls: price:(

The interior is functional but quite impersonal for living aboard. I guess not better than this one from the Corsair 37:







and this one is not so expensive and has the advantage of folding the arms for not paying the double in a marina.

I have to say that the PT 11 looks better (on the outside) and is probably a bit faster but the Corsair does also look good, particularly in its all carbon version that even so it is less expensive than the PT 11.



But if money is not a problem neither space at the marina or the stark interior, for the ones that like to have fun....what a bird!!!!!:D















Regards

Paulo
 
#1,546 ·


New 360º photo for the Salona 38. Inside and outside, lots of views.

360 - Salona Yachts

The design and quality are good but they have to find another upholsterer:(. The cushions don't match and that's not the first time that I have saw that on a Salona. How difficult is that? :rolleyes:.

The head on the three cabin boat (this one) is too small. It is a good one on the two cabin boat.

Outside the cockpit is really great, except that table that the only advantage is that it can be taken away and mounted in no time. I know that they are studding a new one, hopefully better looking and with handholds for the ones that sail with the table on (it will also be a removable one).

Also a movie taken by the magazine Vela in the Genova boat show:

Salona 38 new.wmv - YouTube

....
 
#1,547 ·


The same for the Xp 38, I mean, the movie made by the same magazine in the Genoa boat show. They don't have yet a 360º photo of this one.

Xp 38 new.wmv - YouTube

The cockpit is very similar to the one from Salona and I just love the bowsprit. They guys from Salona are working in one for the 38 and I can just wait that it looks as awesome as this one.

The quality looks good but the Salona is warmer and the cabin of this one looks smaller. I guess that is because they have the head not in front but in the boat center and that makes the saloon smaller. This head is bigger than the one in the three cabin Salona (this is also the three cabin version), but smaller than the one in the Salona two cabin version.

Funny, I cannot find on the x yacht site the drawings for the two cabin version. This is the only version?

..
 
#1,548 · (Edited)
In the Genova boat show Vela Magazine made also movies about some other boats:

Sly 42 Fun

Sly 42 Fun new.wmv - YouTube

Bavaria 50 cruiser

Bavaria 50 Cruiser new - YouTube

also from FareVela:

http://www.yacht.de/multimedia/yacht_tv/test_technik/entspannung-bei-6-beaufort/a64063.html

Hanse 385

Hanse 385 new - YouTube

Not from Vela magazine, just a good advertiser from Hanse:



Catalina 355

Catalina 355 new - YouTube

and since we are talking about Catalina, another good movie made by the German magazine Yacht that tested the 375 (with 6 Beaufort)

http://www.yacht.de/multimedia/yacht_tv/test_technik/entspannung-bei-6-beaufort/a64063.html

....
 
#1,550 · (Edited)
I have not yet posted about Shipman and that is strange because they are among the sailboats I like more:D. If I had a lot of money this would be probably on my short list because they are beautiful, fast, small draft (lifting keel), with great panoramic interiors, a lot less expensive than custom made boats and are designed to be solo sailed. That ability to be sailed solo or with a very small crew is very rare among big sailboats, and the Shipman are big. The Smallest is a 63ft.

On the year that they made that one it won the European boat of the year contest in its category and I remember that the one that was second, the Halberg Rassy 54 had an higher price (or costed about the same?). Anyhow I remember having been surprised by the "low" Shipman price, specially because this is a carbon boat and a Danish one and Danish boats are normally expensive boats (the Shipman is not built in Denmark)

Take a look at some photos of some of their boats:

The 72fter

The 80ft

80ft

Take a look at these movies about the 80ft and the 63ft:

Shipman 80 - official video - YouTube

ASW 2011 Antigua Sailing Week 2011 Shipman 63 boat speed 21kts - YouTube

They say about their boats:

We had a vision.
We wanted to create a sailing yacht for visiting the world's most attractive cruising grounds that would be indulgently relaxing, comfortable and yet would not sacrifice the feel and speed of a racing craft. She would need to be reliable and seaworthy in all conditions, simple to control and capable of sustaining high speeds under sail or engine for an extended period, with a minimal crew.

It should be of sophisticated design, yet simple to maintain.
It should be fast, but easy to control.
It should be stable, but still capable of exploring shallow bays.
It should make life for the owner easy and stress free.
It should be of sufficient strength, range and equipment to allow a summer in the Med, a winter in the CARIBBEAN and two transatlantic crossings per year, all without effort and stress.

A Shipman is defined as a single-handed pilothouse high-performance yacht.

Fast and strong, seaworthy, easy to sail and handle, functional and good looking, she is the racer's world cruiser.

In recent years, advances in technology have led to dramatic improvements in performance. Offshore multihulls, Open 60s and Volvo racers have smashed all records and set the standards of ocean-going speed to new and incredible levels.
The secret of these racers' speed potential lies in a new technology developed around two materials: CARBON fibres and EPOXY resin. When resin systems are combined with reinforcing fibres such as carbon, exceptional properties can be obtained. The resin matrix spreads the load applied to the composite between each of the individual fibres and also protects the fibres from damage caused by abrasion and impact.

These modern materials give a stronger and stiffer boat and are the key factor in the dramatic increase in performance of today's racing boats. The use of these exotic materials is the main price-influencing factor (together with the carbon rig) but the only way to lower displacement, bringing easy handling and high performance.

For this reason, these materials have, until now, only been available to those with a one-off budget. But now, Shipman has made a series of important developments in the design and building process to enable the production of a high-tech, high-performance yacht at moderate cost. All Shipman carbon yachts incorporate these new techniques to redefine cruising performance without compromising safety or durability.


But of course if the 80ft is not big enough to you they had proposals till the 150ft sailboat.

Just look at the 130ft boat, that is able to make 9k speed with 6k wind and 12kspeed with 8k wind. About max speed with strong winds I don't know but the small one (63fr) is able to do over 20K. Regarding the max speed on the 80ft, I just don't know but I dare to say that will be a lot more than 20K.

Of course if you want to go faster you have just to have the 150ft:D





 
#1,552 · (Edited)
...the Shipman are big. The Smallest is a 63ft.

On the year that they made that one it won the European boat of the year contest in its category and I remember that the one that was second, the Halberg Rassy 54 had an higher price (or costed about the same?). Anyhow I remember having been surprised by the "low" Shipman price, specially because this is a carbon boat and a Danish one and Danish boats are normally expensive boats (the Shipman is not built in Denmark
European boat of the year was...

Shipman 50 concept was born in 2001. The idea of a new singlehanded high-performance pilothouse offshore cruiser was developed by Joergen Bonde, the Danish owner of Shipman Yachts, and Jernej and Japec Jakopin of Slovenian J&J Design/Seaway. The carbon/epoxy prepreg technology was generously transferred by Bill Green of Green Marine in Lymington (UK), and the materials engineering and supply came from Giovanni Belgrano of SP Systems in Cowes (UK). The result surpassed expectations : Shipman 50 was elected the overall winner of European Boat Of The Year 2003 contest by 11 votes coming from 11 participating countries in January 2004. Shipman 50 was faster, more easily handled, stronger and more comfortable than any comparable boat giving new feeling of performance and enjoyment to cruising and club racing. 11 boats were sold to 9 countries. Complete tooling set was lost in a fire on April 11th 2007.

Today several used Shipman 50 are for sale (priced at 700k EUR). As far as I remember new Shipman 72 price was +4 mio EUR and Shipman 63 +2.5 mio EUR. This price tag probably "low" for Russian oligarchs as majority of Shipmans are owned by them.

Take a look at this post of new Shipman 80 launch. Also if interested check blog of this Russian Shipman 72 skipper (he is also Shipman dealer). Unfortunately blog is in Russian, but almost every post comes with nice pictures.

Also take a look at red Shipman 72 'Moksha' gallery and don't forget to check the wall with news like "we broke Moksha's personal speed record maxing out at 22.2knots" :eek::eek:
 
#1,551 · (Edited)
Do you know Shaw boats?

They are designed and made by Robert Shaw and they are mostly racers, interesting and fast boats, with a cruiser-racer on the line and if some think that I post some radical performance cruisers take a look at the numbers of this one:



Principal Dimensions
LOA 10.6m
LWL 9.8m
Beam 3.2m
Draft 3m
Displacement 2800kg
Sail Area
Upwind 84m2
Main 51m2
Jib 33m2
Gennaker 160m2

They say about the 10.6m Cruise/Race

The Shaw 10.6 Cruise/Race is designed for harbour and coastal racing, with the ability to go offshore in races such as Auckland-Fiji. It has a canting keel, and can be cruised or raced short-handed by two crew or fully crewed with up to eight sailors. It has a moderate-volume interior which makes for comfortable cruising without comprimising race performance.


But most of them are coastal racers with the exception of this one , the 9m that is not only designed for coastal racing but as also the ability to go offshore in races such as Auckland-Fiji or the Transpac.

It has a canting keel a forward canard or twin dagger boards and needs a four or five crew to tame it:D





But all of them look beautiful to me:









The smaller ones, like this one, are a bit wet to sail even if great fun:



To see what I mean just see this movie, it is hilarious:D:D:D:D:

Monkey Business at Airlie 2011 - YouTube

...
 
#1,554 · (Edited)
Half surprise from Halber-Rassy: What seemed to be an isolated experience with the 372 has turning now on a new line. HR is making a new aft cockpit boat, the HR 412.

On HR, Only boats smaller than 37ft were aft cockpit boats, the offshore HR were basically center cockpit boats but now, with the sells from the 37 center cockpit much worse than the ones from the 372 (aft cockpit) and losing sales to the new line of cruising boats from X yachts, HR decided to offer a 41ft boat with an aft cockpit. The 40ft center cockpit boat will be maintained.

This boat is also the first beamy HR: 4.11m. The old center cockpit 40ft had only 3.82m.

The boat share similar characteristics with the XC-42 but it seems to me that the XC has a more modern design and surprisingly a bit better D/B ratio.

Anyway, a more modern and good looking HR is always good news. The basic price of the new boat will be around: 435 000 €















 
#1,581 ·
Half surprise from Halber-Rassy: What seemed to be an isolated experience with the 372 has turning now on a new line. HR is making a new aft cockpit boat, the HR 412.

On HR, Only boats smaller than 37ft were aft cockpit boats, the offshore HR were basically center cockpit boats but now, with the sells from the 37 center cockpit much worse than the ones from the 372 (aft cockpit) and losing sales to the new line of cruising boats from X yachts, HR decided to offer a 41ft boat with an aft cockpit. The 40ft center cockpit boat will be maintained.

This boat is also the first beamy HR: 4.11m. The old center cockpit 40ft had only 3.82m.

The boat share similar characteristics with the XC-42 but it seems to me that the XC has a more modern design and surprisingly a bit better D/B ratio.

Anyway, a more modern and good looking HR is always good news. The basic price of the new boat will be around: 435 000 €
Paulo,
I think the reasoning for HR to build a larger 372, was not out of pressure by X yachts, but simply dictated by the immense success of the 372. In 2 years, HR built more than 70 HR372's. I would be interrested how many XC 38's have been built.
I recently had the opportunity to crew on the delivery of a HR 372 from Connecticut to the Annapolis Show. The performance, seaworthiness, and layout/ functionality down below is about as perfect as I could imagine. Designed with sailing and comfortable life aboard in mind.
As far as performance, we knocked off about 200 nm a day, in a combination of motoring, sailing and motor-sailing. Hard on the wind, we clocked about 6kn in 10kn wind, and I saw the speed climb to above 8 kn in 14 kn wind on a beam reach. Cruising World did a testsail after the Show, in 15-20kn wind, we'll see what they have to say.
The problem for me: This trip has made it very hard to appreciate affordable production boats ( with the sticker: "starting at" )at the Annapolis Show, as the HR 372 really set the bar for what I am personally looking for in a vessel.
I wonder where Mega Millions Lottery jackpot is today......
Bernd
 
#1,555 · (Edited)
I have posted already about the new Arcona 410...that for me is a bit of a delusion. I have hopped for more. The boat is just too close to the old 400 that was already many years old and looked already dated.

Let's compare, this is the "old 400":





And this is the new 410:







It has two wheels instead of one,the transom just a little larger with the beam brought just a bit aft and the interior is, to put it in the words of Yachting world, "a bit dull". Of course this is a boat with a very good quality overall, with a steel structure that distributes the efforts of the keel and shrouds...but I guess dull is the right word for what could be a very interesting sailboat.

Yachting Monthly tested the boat recently and they have said well about everything, from the quality to the sailing performance...except that they found the interior a bit dull, and I would say that uninspired would be the word that I would use for the exterior, particularly the transom design.

Without being innovative their also recent 430 looked comparatively a lot better to me.

This is the yanchtingWorld movie of that sail test:

Arcona 410 Video - YouTube

.....
 
#1,556 · (Edited)
I am going to post about a beautiful boat, a boat that I would like to own, a classic boat with a modern hull.

Off course modern because it has a bulbed keel to improve weight, but with long overhangs that does not serve any purpose...except an aesthetically one and that are entirely justified...the boat would not make sense without them and who cares about functionalism and that maxim: form follows function. That form only follows a long forgotten rule that had little to do with boat performance:D

The boat, as the others from Fairlie, is designed by Paul Spooner and it is made in a semi custom way. Take a look at this wonderful movie that among other things explain why these boats have to be expensive.

Fairlie 55 -Timelapse.mov - YouTube

The boat is a 55ft boat and Farlie is the shipyard that makes them, as its own boats since this company mainly restores classics.

This Fairlie 55 as just been launched.















One of the big downside of these boats are its small interior dimension. This is a 55ft boat, but the interior has the space of a modern 40ft boat interior.









But the insurmountable problem with a boat like this one, at least for most of us, it is its price. This type of boat is very very expensive, this one costs 1 172 000€.

If we still sailed in boats like these there would very few that could afford a cruiser with space for all the family;)

They say about the boat:

Designed for both cruising and racing, this magnificent yacht reflects the style and quality of a golden age of yachting. This coupled with a modern underwater body and rig, creates a yacht which is as easy to handle as any modern yacht on the market today. She will be admired and envied in any marina or anchorage and with her performance rig and sails will show many of her closest rivals a clean pair of heels.

The hull is constructed from a laminated mahogany backbone and frames, with a layer of Douglas fir strip planking, two layers of mahogany veneers laid at 45 degrees and one layer fore & aft. The entire structure is laminated using West System Epoxy Resin and is finally covered with two layers of GRP for protection.

The deck is built from a layer of marine plywood grooved on the underside, and laid with 12mm thick, swept teak decking with a varnished king plank, covering boards and toe rail.

The ultra-modern fin and bulb keel has an SG cast iron fin and a lead bulb and is assembled and bolted through the hull structure. The spade rudder is a laminated plywood blade with a stainless steel shaft.

The hull is painted with an Awlgrip / International urethane paint system on the topsides and a hard antifouling.

The Fairlie 55, Spirit of Tradition Yacht

LOA - 16.8m
Lwl - 11.64m
Bmax - 3.5m
draft - 2.3/2.6m
Displacement - 10.1t
Sail Area - 117 sq m
Balast - 40%
On deck the varnish work will be Epiphanes Gloss Varnish.


Take a look at this beautiful movie:

Fairlie 55 - Sailing in the Solent.mov - YouTube

......
 
#1,557 · (Edited)
After the beautiful Fairlie 55 let's have a look at the Solaris 44, that was lunched some months ago. The Solaris 44 is also a beautiful boat with the best finish you can find on modern production boats a boat with a smaller LOA, a much bigger interior and considerably faster specially downwind.

Both boats have about the same weight and the same sail area but the LWL of the Solaris is almost 2 meters longer and it will be much more easily driven to hull speed and off course it will plan while the Fairlie will dig into the water and make a big wave. I believe that with very weak winds the match should be very close. The Fairlie is also a fast boat handicapped by its downwind performance and much shorter LWL.

The Solaris 44 is designed by Soto Acebal one of the more creative among contemporary NA, the one that had designed the Soto 40.

The Solaris is not an inexpensive boat, it is one of the most expensive among production boats. It costs about 50% more than a First 45 or a Salona 44. however it has much more interior space than the Farlie 55.... and it will cost almost half the price:(

































And one movies from the Yachtingworld sailtest :

Solaris ONE 44 - YouTube

....
 
#1,558 ·
Mylius 14E55

He have recentey talked about the 11m Mylius, well, its big brother is making a show at the "Middle of the Sea" race, the Med classic.

The boat is now in 17th place, just behind a VOR60 and ahead of a X 44 that is making also a great race.

Rolex Middle Sea Race: Welcome

Take a look at the Mylius 14E55

Mylius 14E55 March 2008 - YouTube

This is also an interesting race to compare, on variable wind situations, the performance of the 40class racing boats (several racing) with traditional 40ft performance cruisers, like the First 40, Grand Soleil 40 or J 122.

Rolex Middle Sea Race
 
#1,561 · (Edited)
Well some say this thread is about boat porn. All is relative but some of the boats posted here while beautiful are just dream boats for all of us. This post is not about a dream boat for anybody. This boat, if you make it yourself, will cost less than the discount that Hanse is offering in the Hanse 400.

If you have some minimal skill you can just buy the plans and make it in the garage. It is designed for that and easiest to build it is hard to find, besides the ones that build the boat have a very flexible arrangement, they can send you what you want, including only the most difficult part to build.

This boat is not only designed to be easy to build but also to be fast, seaworthy, to carry a lot of load and to be easily transportable. It is a dream boat only if you are to lazy:D

Look how it goes (it does not look like a small boat, looking at the speed):

hublot-avion.MOV - YouTube

Have a better look at the boat:

Aviateur 5,70 : le renouveau du Muscadet

It is designed by Heric Henseval, it has only 5.7m and a lifting keel with all the ballast on a bulb and I love it:D

CHARACTERISTICS:

Building material: 9mm thick. marine plywood, glass fiber and epoxy resin.
Hull lenght: 5,70 m
Lenght at DWL: 5,70 m
Lenght over all, LOA: 5,95 m
Beam max. : 2,50 m
Beam (max) at DWL : 1,9 m
Fwd freeboard: 0,95 m
Aft freeboard: 0,81 m
Draft min./max.0,66 m / 1,31 m
Retractable keel with tackle (easy and simple system)
Lenght from DWL to the head of the mast: 8,88 m
Engine: outboard from 2 HP to 6 HP
Mainsail Area: 14,4m2
Solent Area: 8,09m2
Total Area to windward: 22,5m2
Spinnaker Area (asymetrical): 27m2
Sliding integrated pool (through the watertight anchor locker)
Displacement: 625 kg
Déplacement (half loading) 837.5 kg
Déplacement (full loading) 1050 kg
CAN BE WELL LOADED FOR BIG NAVIGATIONS
Keel ballast: 230kg with 200kg of bulb
Unsinkable with flotation foam under berthes
Transportable
Beachable
European Conception Category: C3 D4

Aviateur 5,70m is a very stiff boat with a big interior volume.




http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy322/Paulo_Carvalho/ttt.jpg[/IMG
]

[IMG]http://i804.photobucket.com/albums/yy322/Paulo_Carvalho/image.jpg































Well, if you don't have the money for this one or just find it too big, why not a smaller one?:D:D:D

This one was the first little one made by the same architect, the Souriceau, it has 4.75m:

Souriceau : la micro-croisière hauturière (video)



For more information and prices:

AVIATEUR 5.70m - hensevalyd-englishs jimdo page!
 
#1,563 · (Edited)
Hi G!

It is the first time you post about a boat I never heard of:D.

Thanks for this one. It is not yet a boat, just a project and I don't think they have yet started one even if they give a budget.

For racing an aluminum one would not make sense because it is heavier than the plywood or fiberglass ones, even considering the weight they give, that seems a bit optimistic to me.

For cruising would be alright but I would bet that the owner of a mini would like to make one or two races a year and besides aluminum is a very bad insulator so you would have to put some more money in a solution.

12k€ does not seem too much, but welding an aluminum boat is a complicated business even for professionals. I find their final price for a complete boat with head and a small galley even better: 25000€















The boat comes from a very young designer that is starting his carer :

Mini 650 Balipi sail Boat

Technical data:

(m)
Length OA 6,5
Length WL 6,5
Beam OA 3
Beam WL
Depth 2
Draft 12
Freeboard 0,8
Ballast: (Kg) 450
Displacement (kg) 1150
description:

Construction of hull: multiple hard chine, full welded

Material of hull: Aluminum AlMg4.5 (5083)

Motor: NA

Fuel tank: NA


Navigation: Northstar. C-map

seating: 4

WC, kitchen

deck equipment: HARKEN

The first aluminum minitransat boat. Particulary strong. A little heavier than racing boat. Offer for sailing training, charter market, day recreational sailing. For fans of mini 6.50 class.


Regards

Paulo
 
#1,568 ·
#1,571 · (Edited)
I have said that if somebody needs to ask the price it is not going to buy this boat:D

The price is just huge, 220500€ for the basic price with this specifications:

http://www.richardbaldwinyachts.com/pdf/solaris-one-37-specs.pdf

The specifications are good but nothing special. If you buy a Salona 38 with the performance, comfort and basic package you will get a boat with higher specifications for almost less 50000€.

For superior specifications I mean: Same mast brand but higher range model (three spreaders), rod on the rig (option on the Solaris), Carbon spinnaker pole (on the Solaris even the aluminium one is optional), stainless steel grid to take the forces of the shrouds and keel (on the Solaris, reinforcements in e glass fiber), Epoxy based resins (Solaris resins are not epoxy), three blade folding propeller (2 blade fixed one in the Solaris), Dracon sails (that can be upgraded), no sails included on the Solaris.

I bet that you can upgrade the Solaris to the Salona specifications but then the Solaris price would be a lot more than 220500€ and the difference to the Salona much bigger. In fact, now that difference is bigger because Salona is offering an introductory price on the 38 and that means about less 30 000€ on that Salona upgrated version, and that means a difference of 80000€ to a lower specification Solaris 37.

That was what I mean. You don't buy a Solaris for the price or specifications but out of passion and for its impeccable finish;)

Regarding the Solaris 37 I have to say that besides the price I also don't like the interior, I mean those fashionable white cabinets that are trendy on this moment in Italy (they are similar to the ones from the new CS 39). The problem with fashions is that they go away rely quick and you end up with a boat out of fashion in no time:D I prefer the wood interior of the Salona (in what regards design) even if I am sure they can put you wood cabinets, as on previous Solaris models but that, I am sure, it will mean more money in extras:rolleyes:

360 - Salona Yachts

Take a look at what I mean. this is the new Solaris 37 interior:



This is the interior of a bigger Solaris but with wood:



Some more photos of the Solaris 37:













The Solais 37 is a very beautiful boat and a boat that resembles a lot with the Salona 38, except that this one has the keel I want on the Salona and a slightly better designed transom (for my taste).

But on the other hand the Salona will be a lot faster: It was more 10m2 of sail area and weights less 800kg probably due to its epoxy based hull.

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,567 ·
Interesting small boats

Paulo,

Talking about boat porn and small boats, have you found any decent pictures and info about the RM1060 Performance version that was recently launched? They even improved cabin ventilation. I wonder if any other lessons learned went into the design. The perception is that the boat is an under-performer, having been so silent about the testing and numbers. But still, I find it interesting.

Hans
 
#1,572 ·
Paulo,

Talking about boat porn and small boats, have you found any decent pictures and info about the RM1060 Performance version that was recently launched? They even improved cabin ventilation. I wonder if any other lessons learned went into the design. The perception is that the boat is an under-performer, having been so silent about the testing and numbers. But still, I find it interesting.

Hans
Hi Hans!,

The boat sails very well. The performance was not what was expected since we expected a rocket and this is a cruising boat:rolleyes:. Even if the performance cannot match the one from the Pogo 10.50 it is very good for a long range cruising boat of that size.

I believe that some youth problems related with a somewhat heavy and insensitive helm were already solved by now and they have just launched the performance version that I had talked about some posts back:







That consists one a carbon mast with a single keel but two rudders and better sails (they don't talk about more sail area but it is possible that they just forget to mention it).

The Carbon mast is going to make an expensive boat even more expensive. The RM 1060, a 35ft was already more expensive than a Salona 38 and with this carbon mast and other mods it would probably sell at the same price of a Salona 41:(

For me the biggest problem of this boat is the price, that I find to high, but that's just my opinion;).

Regarding the interior photos, the interior had not any alteration regarding the standard boat . I have already posted them on a previous post.

You can have a look at their site:

RM YACHTS | RM 1060

Some videos:

RM 1060 : la bande annonce de l'essai en vidéo - YouTube

vid2_rm1060.mp4 - YouTube

Regards

Paulo
 
#1,574 · (Edited)
After Sweden yachts and Maxy yachts (Najad group) it is the time of another North European company to go under. This time it seems that it is the end for another company that have made many great boats: Finngulf.

I had the opportunity to say on this thread that their new boat, a remake of the 37, did not make much sense.



It looked old fashioned and the only alteration from the 37 seemed to be a a badly designed transom and the two wheel set-up on a lousy presentation:(

It seems that it was not only me that found that. The commands did not appear and they lost their only hope for recovering.

http://www.finngulf.com/binary/file/-/id/1/fid/251

They were in trouble and were already rescued but they have persisted in the same route, offering a similar product at the same price. That is just a bad policy and one that would normally fail.

I am afraid that the same is going to happen with Cabo Rico. They are in trouble, have been given some oxygen but they are not changing anything...so how do they expect to survive?

Has an opposite example, Dehler that was in trouble (bought by Hanse) modified the line of its boats (Dehler 41) lowered the prices and modified their production line with an huge reorganization. I don't know if they are going to succeed but at least they are trying the right way: Changing boat design and lowering prices.
 
#1,575 · (Edited)
Let's talk about that boat test between the Malango and the daydream, published 5 years ago by Voile and voiliers magazine. Have a look at the shape and both boat characteristics. They couldn't be more different in what regards shape hull even if the keels are similar;):



The boats have about the same weight, almost the same LWL, the Daydream compensates its inferior form stability with a bigger B/D ratio, the Daydeam has a much better prismatic coefficient and therefore needs less sail (power) for the same speed.

The theoretical hull speed for both boats is 7.08 for the Malango and 7.12 for the Daydream, a negligible difference of less than 0.04K.

The sea had no waves, or very small waves.

With 10k wind:

Close to the wind: Malango - 3.8K ....... Daydream - 3.9K

Downwind with Spinnaker : Malango -5.3K........ Daydream - 5.3k
(bigger one on the Malango)

With 20k wind:

Close to the wind: Malango - 5.7K ............ ....Daydream - 5.7K

Downwind with Spinnaker : Malango -8.2/surf 10K........Daydream - 8.2/surf 10k
(bigger one on the Malango)

With engine:

Cruising speed: Malango - 4.8k ..........Daydream - 5.5k

Max speed: Malango - 7.1k ..........Daydream - 7.0k

Here the Malango had a 15hp yanmar and the Daydream a 19hp Volvo.

Regarding sailing those were at the time amazing results for me, results that now I can understand.

Assuming those two boats are optimized and very well designed, and I think they are this means:

That a narrow boat has an advantage upwind in weaker winds (I believe that with a 5K wind the difference would be much bigger) and that advantage can disappear in stronger winds, but for having the same performance the beamier boat has to carry more sail to overcome its superior prismatic coefficient. He can do that because that extra beam gives it a lot more hull stability and more power to carry more sail. However in weak and medium winds the narrow boat will heel less than the beamier boat.

That was not tested on that sail test, but comparative results taken from racing performance, indicates that these results are only valid on flat water. On stronger winds offshore you have waves and the wave drag of the narrow boat will be much smaller. On this situation (strong wind and waves) the narrow boat will be considerably faster and will pound a lot less.

Downwind you have a match here but I believe that if we were talking about 30k wind or more, the Malango would be considerably faster, being able to plan more easily. Not only more easily but with more control, with less lateral ballance (that big stern would have a damping effect).

Regarding the performance under engine I don't think that that 4hp difference is responsible for that big difference in cruising speed (we can see that the max speed is very close). The worse performance of very beamy sailboats under engine is a constant on this type of hull at half power. I guess that has a relation with its worse performance with light winds: That hull needs more power to be moved at slow speeds. At higher speeds, near hull speed and over the beamier hull can plan at lesser speed and makes less drag, the opposite than at slower speeds.

We are talking here about two almost extreme hull shapes, one very narrow and the other very beamy (and that's why I found amazing that the performance was so close). Those differences would be attenuated with a less narrow boat, giving different compromises, specially in what regards differences in planning and control downwind with stronger winds, heel of the boat, and induced drag on passing waves.
 
#1,576 · (Edited)
Some more information about that ongoing collection of information about hull performance and hull shape, from the "Middle of the sea race".

On this race participated several class 40 racing boats, that are performance upgraded Pogo 12,50: Same hull, but more righting moment (bulb at 3m), more sail, lighter and with water ballast.

There was not on this race any 40ft racer to compare (like the Ker 40) but I have noticed that, except on mostly downwind races like a transat, a ker 40 (or a similar less beamy modern racing boat) would be faster.

On the races that have a lo of upwind sailing with bad weather even fast-cruiser racers, like the First 40, can be faster than the class40 racers. Not on this one, but they have not stayed far:

The fastest class 40 was an Aquilaria that had made the race in 4 days 2 hours and 58m, the second was a Pogo 2 that had take more 5 minutes. The best 40ft cruiser racer was a J 122 that had taken more 3h and 35m. The second J 122 made it in 4 days 5h and 50m.

An Azuree 40, a fast 40ft cruiser designed having as model the 40class boats have done the race in 4D 21h and 20m, more 17 hours than the first J122. An older First 40.7, that is slower than the First 40 (there was none racing), made it in 4D 12h and 12m.

The Fastest was the 30m Maxi Esimit Europa 2 (the ex Alfa Romeu with an ugly painting :() with 2 Days 13 h and 25m.

Some results of other performance cruisers that we had talked about on this thread:

Swan 80 - 3D 12h 34m

Ker 53 - 3D 17h 22m

Xp 65 - 3D 21h 21m

Shipman 63 - 3D 22h 33m

Mylius 14E55 - 4D 1h 22m

XP 44 - 4D 3h 36m

Take a look at the movies, some beautiful boats out there...and some nasty weather too:D

Rolex Middle Sea Race: Welcome

Rolex Middle Sea Race 2011 Pre Race with Kurt Arrigo - YouTube



Rolex middle sea race 2011 - YouTube
 
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