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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Constructive Total Loss?
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Thread: Constructive Total Loss? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
04-01-2012 06:37 PM
Minnewaska
Re: Constructive Total Loss?

Good luck getting her back together and returning to the water.

The only time I ever had a weather damage claim, it was just a strong front that passed through. I didn't take a hurricane. I would not want to be on the water for a minute without hull coverage. Hope its attainable at reasonable rates.
04-01-2012 10:50 AM
Bake81
Constructive Total Loss?

For 2012, I obtained liability coverage from a reputable insurer after full disclosure of the circumstances. After my repairs are complete, I will consider having a new survey done and purchasing more comprehensive coverage
01-17-2012 03:35 PM
sailingfool
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
....
Not so simple. What an insurer will do depends very much on whether the vehicle involved was issued a "salvage title" and what the reason for the "total" was.
....
Again, many states don't have titles for boats. None of the six documented boats that I've owned have had titles, state of MA. The Fed documentation would reflect the ownership transfer to the insurance company, and then to the next owner...
01-17-2012 03:31 PM
glassdad How many out there would buy a boat that was considered a "total loss"? I would not. Yes it may be sold at a good price, but you don't know the quality of the repair. Insurance companies are not stupid. It they thought the boat was repairable for less then their liability, then they would go that route.

Take care.
01-17-2012 02:45 PM
hellosailor "Whether car/truck/boat/motorcycle.....you WILL have a next to impossible time EVER insuring that boat again. Insurance companies will NOT pay twice. Once totaled, they - collectively are done with that item."
Not so simple. What an insurer will do depends very much on whether the vehicle involved was issued a "salvage title" and what the reason for the "total" was.
I had a car that was totalled because of theft, too many parts stripped. The insurer saved a few bucks by not forcing a salvage title, which is hard to remove in many states now. So the original title was never changed and once I had the missing parts restored and the vehicle re-inspected, they picked up full insurance again without any discussion.
How individual insurers, and states, deal with total losses, collision or otherwiwse, and how titles are changed, is very much an individual matter. If your state requires a salvage title, the insurer still may or may not bother with it. And some states (notoriously) make it very easy to clear a salvage title while others require special reinspections. I'm sure they make it easier on boats than on cars--but this is by no means a uniform process in the US.
And that's probably logical, too. After all, if I spend $2000 for parts, and four days of my time installing "modifications", the insurer will only recognize the $2000 added. If a SHOP does the job and bills out another $3500 in labor fees--the insurer will recognize the total of $5500, because money changed hands. If you make repairs by yourself or find some discount labor source, that's to your advantage. They pay "book" rates, they know you have the option and sometimes ability to beat those.
01-17-2012 12:25 PM
kd3pc
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
.. just that I believe that the insurance company presented with a good survey of a vessel, is likely to extend insurance for it, even if the insurance company knows it had a bent toe rail in the past, as long as it has been repaired to a surveyor's satisfaction.
the current insurer has, or will shortly be identifying this boat as a CTL...no matter what we or the OP has put forth, toe rail be damned. It is a very small world.

Survey or not, paperwork/statements that swears it is as good as prior to the CTL...NO reputable insurance company will insure this boat for more than a few hundred dollars, if that.

Simply not going to happen. They have paid out the value of the boat, ONCE, and will not do so again. Nor will they be responsible for any liability associated with this boat.

Buyers of, or potential buyers of "bargain" boats should really ask their insurance agent for binders and get all their concerns addressed, up front. I stand by my previous post.

Caveat Emptor. And especially people who buy back a CTL.
01-17-2012 12:07 PM
sailingfool
Quote:
Originally Posted by kd3pc View Post
This advice smacks of fraud, and

if it is in fact a CTL, and you repair it and offer it for sale or transfer - you will be in deep doo doo. Subject to prosecution in many states. If you are going to go this route, I suggest strongly that you READ the terms and conditions that you agree to, by taking the check.

For sure you can repair it and use it....but if involved in an accident, that can in any way be attributed to the CTL damages, you can and likely, will be find liable...and without insurance.

The HIN, make, model and ANY information they have on the boat and you will be entered in to the databases available to the insurance companies and made available to other insurance companies.

Whether car/truck/boat/motorcycle.....you WILL have a next to impossible time EVER insuring that boat again. Insurance companies will NOT pay twice. Once totaled, they - collectively are done with that item. To them it no longer exists, and their lawyers are better paid than yours will be.
No need for deception with anyone. Of course the insurance companies share information, and I would expect the loss and related changes of ownership would be reflected in the documentation history.
I did not suggest that the OP try to hide the history of the boat form the second insurance company, just that I believe that the insurance company presented with a good survey of a vessel, is likely to extend insurance for it, even if the insurance company knows it had a bent toe rail in the past, as long as it has been repaired to a surveyor's satisfaction.
The OP has an opportunity to own the same boat with a marred history, plus perhaps $15,000 in the bank. When he goes to the sell the boat, the next buyer will expect and get a substantial haircut on value, due to the history, but he too may end up the smiling owner of a lovely boat for $15000-18,000.
The boat does not have leprosy...
01-17-2012 11:04 AM
kd3pc
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post

After the repair, if your existing insurance company has any reluctance to fully insure the boat (I wouldn't blame them...), get a clean survey and switch to another company. Does your state even have titles for boats...many don't...

.
This advice smacks of fraud, and

if it is in fact a CTL, and you repair it and offer it for sale or transfer - you will be in deep doo doo. Subject to prosecution in many states. If you are going to go this route, I suggest strongly that you READ the terms and conditions that you agree to, by taking the check.

For sure you can repair it and use it....but if involved in an accident, that can in any way be attributed to the CTL damages, you can and likely, will be find liable...and without insurance.

The HIN, make, model and ANY information they have on the boat and you will be entered in to the databases available to the insurance companies and made available to other insurance companies.

Whether car/truck/boat/motorcycle.....you WILL have a next to impossible time EVER insuring that boat again. Insurance companies will NOT pay twice. Once totaled, they - collectively are done with that item. To them it no longer exists, and their lawyers are better paid than yours will be.
01-17-2012 10:30 AM
sailingfool I'd take the $30,000 and buy the boat back, When you are doing the repair with your own money, you can cut corners that you would not permit the insurance company to do. Consider replacing the rail only on the damaged side, with something that cosmetically matches the other side...only you are likely to notice the difference.

After the repair, if your existing insurance company has any reluctance to fully insure the boat (I wouldn't blame them...), get a clean survey and switch to another company. Does your state even have titles for boats...many don't...

A fellow at my club had a similar situation, he bought the boat back for $1000, and used the insurance proceeds for a professional repair, included a full awlgrip job of the topsides and a new set of sails, and ended up with a boat far more pristine than prior to the accident, and with money in the bank.
01-16-2012 10:45 PM
SloopJonB I think the thing about this situation that confuses people is how insurance companies value things. Most of us regard a "total loss" of something as essentially meaning it is damaged beyond repair. Insurance companies instead look at the cost of professional repairs plus an additional factor averaged in for "re-do's", hidden surprises and so forth. Once these, plus any recoverable scrap value add up to equal or exceed the insured value payable by them, it is a "total loss".

It actually has little to do with the repairability of the insured item, it has only to do with minimizing their cash outlays. Another thing to consider is that most professionals, when they know they are dealing with an insurance company, jack up the price over what an individual would pay out of his own pocket - this even applies to dentists and so forth. I imagine that $13K to replace a toe rail has some of that in it.

I've seen cars totalled over a creased fender - the cost of repainting it exceeded the market value of an otherwise perfectly good car.
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