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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > boat living question for someone green
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Topic Review (Newest First)
11-26-2011 01:47 AM
joethecobbler just to clarify, all instruction is good instruction and I think the CG,us sailing and ASA are all great organizations and I support them .
but for those w/ limiing schedules and/or domiciles in areas w/out access to these the online option is a welcomed thing.

go sailing !
11-25-2011 06:15 PM
DRFerron
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck53 View Post
First of all, I totally agree that if there are no classes available within a reasonable distance, online is a decent alternative. You also mentioned commercial classes with paid instructors. We're talking about classes taught by the Coast Guard Aux. and U.S Power & Sail Squadron. I could be wrong about this, but I believe instructors for both are unpaid volunteers. If I'm wrong and they are paid, I can promise the pay is minimal at best, probably enough to cover their out of pocket expenses. I'm sure Donna will chime in on this.
You are correct. Not paid. The CGAUX course fees are determined by the individual flotilla to cover the expenses such as training aids, books, charts, etc. I took a USPSS course and I believe they do the same. Many of our instructors are also instructors with the USPSS and ASA.

ASA instructors are not volunteers. The cost of the course is set by the individual instructor. You also get on-water training with an ASA instructor.
11-25-2011 05:55 PM
chuck53 First of all, I totally agree that if there are no classes available within a reasonable distance, online is a decent alternative. You also mentioned commercial classes with paid instructors. We're talking about classes taught by the Coast Guard Aux. and U.S Power & Sail Squadron. I could be wrong about this, but I believe instructors for both are unpaid volunteers. If I'm wrong and they are paid, I can promise the pay is minimal at best, probably enough to cover their out of pocket expenses. I'm sure Donna will chime in on this.
11-25-2011 03:18 PM
joethecobbler chuck53-
Quote:
You're comparing apples to carrots. Not even close.
I've taken 5 classes over the years. Only one was a typical classroom setting with maybe 20 students. The rest were 6-8 students sitting around a table. All were one evening a week maybe 7-9 pm for, I think 8-10 weeks.
The inconvenience of travel and parking and being away from family was minor to say the least. Never once did an instructor fail to show up and since the classes were so small, he would have called all the students to let us know if there was any kind of problem.
Like
Not sure how "sitting around a table" differs from a traditional setting other than the lack of an idividual desk.
As for your personal experience of having an instructor never late,absent or fail to communicate a cancelation, lucky you. I doubt your 4 examples are 100% representative of all commercial class situations.
glad to hear the transportation,travel issues were minimal for you, My experience can not be minimalized due to the rural location and availability of classes offered. or to state it plainly, I'm in an area that is far from these classes offered w/ no public trans. options.
for me , the thought of driving an hour each way for and evening class one night a week for 6-8 weeks is a definate shoe stopper. Particularly after an 8-10 hour work day and oter obligations. Whats more, once a week? how proficient and to what degree of retention could a 2-3 hour once a week course offer?
I've participated in alot of "education" situations offered from different sources from public,private,military . though a wide and varied area of education to include Aviation, forestry management ,electronics,pedorthics,transportation,medical,mil itary related underwater demolition/construction,music,lutherie,wringwainer to name just a few. and have been employed in each area at some point.
I'm stating this to emphasize I have personal experience with many different education methods and find little disadvantage in online education compared to the advantages.

why is it improper to compare vegitables to fruits?
11-25-2011 02:59 PM
joethecobbler DRferron-
Quote:
Online boating courses do not provide human interaction. You read the material on the screen and you take the test. There is no opportunity to talk to other students or instructors because there are none. There is no opportunity to question a test answer or anything that you read that seems off. There was one case in this forum where someone discovered incorrect information on an online course.
Incorrect, there are online courses where all those issues are addressed . There are instructors as well as other "students" . It entails more than just reading the material, they include an online lecture, as well as printed material for review. students are encouraged to interact as well as question the curiculum through forums similiar to this one, via email,online live "chat" as well as the telephone. The ONLY method unavailable would be face to face ! the class for the OUPV is I believe $4-600.
you also indicate (correct me if I am wrong) that you are an instructor? giving credence to my observation , that often the biggest supporters of the classroom instruction (and those in oposition to online study) are the ones w/ the most to lose, the paid instructors.
for the record,I have NO affiliation to either.
Also, no advantage to online ??? I reiterate- travel time,expense of travel (there are no classes within 1 hour of my domicile-one way).
Scheduleling- classes only offered at certain times, online available 24-365.

as to the inividual state acceptance, this will most likely change and become more widely recieved. After all 10 years ago it wasn't offered and now !!!!
welcome to the new face of education.
11-24-2011 12:35 PM
chuck53
Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
I couldn't disagree more.
Example; I attended temple U in "06" for some anatomy and pedorthic related medical education and did 2/3 of the course online as did a majority of the class. there is/was an opportunity to interact w/ the other students as well as the instructors as wel as participate in group discussions.
What it DIDN'T offer was, wasted travel time,parking fees and a rigid schedule and all the usual issues that come up (professors sick,abscent,late, on vacation,etc) regardless of weather or the time of day I could "attend class" at any hour of the day or night when it was convenient to ME.
this in contrast to having to go to a location (often another city/state) and the associated costs and loss of time from work or away from family.
this is 2011 and sometimes the technical advances actually are advances !
take advantage of the advances and get an advantage. (sorry couldn't help it)

Also the classroom by design teaches to the slowest student and the "quicker" students die of boredom. like public school, the few still advocating it are largely those employed in the failed system to the detriment of those footing the bill.
happy thanksgiving.

You're comparing apples to carrots. Not even close.
I've taken 5 classes over the years. Only one was a typical classroom setting with maybe 20 students. The rest were 6-8 students sitting around a table. All were one evening a week maybe 7-9 pm for, I think 8-10 weeks.
The inconvenience of travel and parking and being away from family was minor to say the least. Never once did an instructor fail to show up and since the classes were so small, he would have called all the students to let us know if there was any kind of problem.
11-24-2011 12:12 PM
DRFerron
Quote:
Originally Posted by joethecobbler View Post
I couldn't disagree more.
Example; I attended temple U in "06" for some anatomy and pedorthic related medical education and did 2/3 of the course online as did a majority of the class. there is/was an opportunity to interact w/ the other students as well as the instructors as wel as participate in group discussions.
This isn't a fair comparison. Online boating courses do not provide human interaction. You read the material on the screen and you take the test. There is no opportunity to talk to other students or instructors because there are none. There is no opportunity to question a test answer or anything that you read that seems off. There was one case in this forum where someone discovered incorrect information on an online course. The material is still developed by humans.

The only advantage is that you can take it whenever; midnight in your skivvies if you want.

Another advantage (with my CG classes) is that students and instructors get to know each other enough that non-class sponsored sails have been set up. More than a few students have made arrangements to go out on some of the instructor's boats. By the end of a 9-week course I have gotten to know the students somewhat and will usually offer a day sail if they are near my marina.

We once had a PA Fish and Boat Commission officer talk to our flotilla and he said that he can tell the people who took an online course and those who took a traditional classroom course (besides the fact that the card that is issued will sometimes indicate which one it was). If you live in a state that requires a boating cert regardless of age or if you are not grandfathered in, some states do not accept the online course. Not a lot, but some.

Everyone has a preference. I just wanted to explain this option a little more.
11-24-2011 11:51 AM
joethecobbler
Quote:
Take the classes. Cost is truly minimal and you can't interact with a library card like you can with your instructor and other members of your class.
A good part of what you learn in class comes as much from questions, answers and experiences of all in the class as it does the textbook and course materials.
I'm 58 and have been boating all my life. I've taken 5 classes, the first about 15 years ago and all were well worth it.
I've also taken online classes (not in boating) and they don't begin to come close to an actual class.
I couldn't disagree more.
Example; I attended temple U in "06" for some anatomy and pedorthic related medical education and did 2/3 of the course online as did a majority of the class. there is/was an opportunity to interact w/ the other students as well as the instructors as wel as participate in group discussions.
What it DIDN'T offer was, wasted travel time,parking fees and a rigid schedule and all the usual issues that come up (professors sick,abscent,late, on vacation,etc) regardless of weather or the time of day I could "attend class" at any hour of the day or night when it was convenient to ME.
this in contrast to having to go to a location (often another city/state) and the associated costs and loss of time from work or away from family.
this is 2011 and sometimes the technical advances actually are advances !
take advantage of the advances and get an advantage. (sorry couldn't help it)

Also the classroom by design teaches to the slowest student and the "quicker" students die of boredom. like public school, the few still advocating it are largely those employed in the failed system to the detriment of those footing the bill.
happy thanksgiving.
11-22-2011 11:25 PM
JoeDiver Wherever you're living now....mark off an 8' x 20' space....pointed in the end 6'....and try to live in it for a week. You can only interact with whatever you can fit in that space. That's your 29' boat.

If I were going to live aboard full time, I'd have to have a 36' boat at a minimum. Preferably 38-42'. It would need heat/AC, hot water, shower, and at least 6'4" of headroom. (I'm 6'3) I'd also need a slip with power/water, wifi, laundry facilities, cable TV hookups, and marina services such as maintenance folks, mechanics, pump out boat, fuel dock, parking....

This is of course, assuming I'm not retired and out cruising the world, but have a regular full-time job. If you're independently wealthy and don't have a job, that changes things a little. You probably wouldn't be looking at a 29' boat either.

Learning to sail her is the least of your worries at this point.
11-22-2011 10:35 PM
robwilk37 get into racing. enthusiastic newbies can always get rides. sit down, shut up and learn. racing is the accelerated college of sailboat handling, decision making, seeing the whole water and its traffic / breeze etc. try to get in a fleet of similar size boats as yours. volunteer for grunt work and learn boat maintenance. one full season (year) in so cal and youll be a solid coastal cruiser and confident in your abilities. there is just no substitute for learning on someone elses boat and nickle.

and remember to have fun....
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