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Question about mainsail troubles.

9K views 65 replies 21 participants last post by  casey1999 
#1 ·
Out sailing today and I keep having trouble with a steel cable that runs from the back tip of the mainsail boom to the top of the mast. The mainsail gets caught against it and it is rubbing on the mainsail. The cable is tight its not loose. The mainsail looked ok, what can I do to prevent this?
 
#32 ·
Thanks,
The dodger is very simple and works well, both sailing and at anchor- leave companion way open and all stays dry even when raining. The frame is fixed (cannot be lowered) but the canvas can easily be removed. The frame is bolted to boat in only two places. The frame is very strong. Here is a better pic.
 

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#30 ·
I bet the dodger was measured with the topping lift on and not with the sail up. Is there a way you could bend the upper arch of the dodger so it clears with the sail on/topping lift off? If it's just rubbing now, you should be able to just flatten the profile of the tubing a bit so you don't have to re-cut the dodger which looks like a nice job otherwise.
 
#31 ·
I might be able to bend the doger frame, although would rather not as I think the canvas would not fit well afterwards. The doder is actualy a fixed frame and cannot be lowered. I will try to play with the main to see if I can raise it enough or maybe put more outhual to see if I can get it to clear the dodger. Thanks for the comments, let me see what adjustments I can make and I will let you know the outcome.
Regards
 
#33 ·
Over the weekend had a chance to raise main at dock before high winds came through. The only way I can get the boom to clear the dodger is to place a line at the base of the sail to allow me to raise the sail up higher. Do you see any problems with this? I do have a cunningham that I could rig to provide downhaul tension. Do you think this is how the sail is supposed to be rigged?
Regards
 

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#34 ·
bring the tack of the main sail down to the boom then hoist the main. looks to me like you wounl have a little better sail ship .
 
#35 ·
I did not fully tighten the down haul which will help the sail's shape. If I bring the tack of the main sail down to the boom, then the boom will hit the dodger. I purposely tried to raise the tack to allow the boom to be raised higher.
 
#36 · (Edited)
Those are good pictures Casey. I think you are going to have to alter the dodger. It really should be no large job to do this. It looks like you can easily lower the back arch by 4" or so, either by re bending which might look funny because the last arch would not match the previous two or by shortening it which will require a re-cut of the canvas. I would first try rebending it and see how it works. If not, then cut 4" off the rear arch, sliding the hinged arches up 4" and get the canvas recut along the arch, leaving everything else as it is. If you can't trim the sails properly, I don't see any alternative.
 
#38 ·
Your dodger does look higher than a typically frame, but i would not starting changing it as the fit looks very well done.

My advice would be to have a sail maker raise the clew (thus the aft end of the boom) by shortening the leech as needed, say 6". Or treat yourself to a new main.

PS - any reason that you do not have a reefing line(s) run?
 
#40 · (Edited)
This pic show better. Have the upper reef lines run which are the ones I use. The main is pretty worn, but will try to get some more years out of her, then in the future get a main that fits well. Would rather not alter the dodger as the dodger is also worn (UV) and trying to recut and stich the material would probably not work well. Stainless work is also expensive here. Raising the clew is probably a good idea. This pic shows the sail raised and how it would hit the dodger.
 

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#39 · (Edited)
SF may have a good idea about making a new mainsail. The sail you have could even be recut. If the boat is a modern design, predominantly headsail powered, a few feet missing from the lower part of the mainsail will probably not make much difference. It would likely result in better performance since you wouldn't have to worry about pulling the gooseneck down with downhaul tension. Having the right tension along the luff makes a LOT of difference in performance when you're close hauled.

I would check the design specs. of the sail system first to determine if the existing sail is the right one. You may discover that the sail is not the right sail in the first place. Which came first, the dodger or the sail?
 
#41 · (Edited)
The dodger frame has been on the boat since first built (1978). The sail was made by Horizon Sails Austrailia- seems this company is no longer in buisness- I have e-mailed and get no response and there web site does not open. This main is about 5 years old but has one 3 year circumnavigation on her by PO so has a lot of UV damage.
 
#42 ·
GREETINGS EATHLING The topping lift can also be used to de-power the main sail by pulling it in, so the boom is about 45 deegrees to the mast it;s called scandelizing the main and is very hand when aproaching too fast to sow the boat down or just decrease the driveing force GO SAFE.
 
#48 ·
I can raise the topping lift and it will raise the boom some (maybe to an 80 degree angle to the main as there is some play at the boom/mast fitting). However I do not want to sail this way as there will be a lot of tension on the topping lift. I can also see where the topping lift (mine is a stainless steel cable) has cut a small groove in the aluminum mast head fitting, apparently because the boat may have been sailed with the topping lift under tension and when the boom is out, the topping lift will contact this part of the mast head fitting.
Regards
 
#49 ·
GREETINGS EARTHLING . Sounds as if the wire has jummped out of the sheath that allows the topping lift to slacken off this may meen a trip up the stick or a mast out ! Iether way use the experiance as a lerning curve and takea camra with you to record everything you see and find out GO SAFE
 
#50 ·
No the wire is still in the sheave and always has been. The groove was cut when the boom was not in line with the boat's keel. When this happens, the topping lift will rub part of the mast head fitting. If the topping lift is loose, which it should be when main is raised, there will be no tension on the topping lift and no groove will be cut. I have been up the mast many times (mast steps help), will take pic next time- maybe this weekend.
Regards
 
#51 ·
GREETINGS EARTHLING; Is the topping lift of fixed length, or can it be ajusted to alter the angle of the boom as this will interfear with the aro-dynamic foil of your main sail.
Is it time to retro fit a ajustable topping lift so you can achive true drive from your sails.STRIVE FOR MORE AND GO SAFE
 
#52 ·
The topping lift is adjustable, no changes needed there. As mentioned, if the tack of the main sail is attached to the boom, and I raise the main, the boom will hit the dodger. Apparently in the past, the topping lift was used to support the boom while under sail, and this is when the groove was cut. The groove is not big and does not effect strength of mast head, never the less may fill weld it sometime in the future. The topping lift should be loose from what I understand when under sail, letting the sail support the boom.
 
#53 ·
GREETINGS EARTHLINGS, Is the main sail luff the correct length for the boat / does the main sail go all the way up the mast to the top just trying to find out the solution to the problem ! Ahas the topping lift been put back in the mast the wrong way would it be beter witha rope splice to stop the chafe damage to the sail if all esle fails it might mean time to brake out the baggie wrinkles GO SAFE
 
#54 ·
It seems the main sail leach may be too long, as in order to have the sail support the boom I need to add line to the tack of the main so that I can raise the main about 6 inches higher (than if the main's tack were connected directly to the boom- see the previous pics posted). I can also use my cunningham as a previous poster said the sail may be cut for a "lose tack". I looked that up and the description is that you raise the main fully but then used the cunningham to provide downhaul at the tack. This is basically what I did but just had a line instead of my block and tackle cunningham. Next time I sail (maybe sunday) I will try this method and see how she goes. This loose tack though does add additional work as I single hand mostly, and now need more trips to the mast to get things adjusted well. The topping lift is in correct. The lift is half wire and half rope with wire going to boom. Have thought about replacing with all line, not sure why it is partly wire.
Regards
 
#55 ·
GREETINGS EARTHLING. Aha we are getting somewhere now can you get the sail recut to your mast and boom sizes locally? can you get a used sail and try that for size. I always send the main to the top of the mast and make all the ajustments at the bottom as the boom on my boat could slide up for a bout 2' (very handy) you just cannot beter messing about in boats Please keep me informed and always GO SAFE
 
#56 ·
Yes could get main modified locally if the "loose tack" method does not pan out. I do have an "old" main sail that came with the boat, actually in pretty good shape except the full battens are missing. When I get a chance I will put this sail on and see how she fits- I have been meaning to do this but just have not had the time (or rather just go sailing). Unfortunately my boom/mast connection is fixed height- no adjustment. I will let you know, might have to put off the sail this sunday as just checked passage weather and expecting 12 ground swell which means up to 25 foot wave faces at the harbor channel. :eek:
Regards
 
#57 ·
GREETING EARTHLING , Get along to your hardwhere shop and get plexi-glass cut into stips of the correct size drill a couple of holes into the ends to tie em into the sleaves, go and get them worn out great stuff glad to be able to help even if I'm thousands of miles away oh tech is good when it works GO SAFE
 
#59 ·
I'm surprised you do not have the first reef run...I would think that would eb the most common setting you would need. IS there some story behind it being out of use? The third reef is really a trysail alternative, on my last boat I never used the third reef in ten years. Do you sail in conditions requiring it's use?
 
#60 ·
Sails actually got 4 reef points. I can rig the 1st easily if needed. I normally use the 2nd or 3rd. The 4th reef is try sail reef and not run, but could easily rig at sea if needed. Wind conditions on north shore oahu where I sail are normally not below 25 knots and can range up to 35 knots regularly when several miles off shore and the wind is wraping around the points of the island. At times the winds can be 4o knots or more. Since I am single handing most times, I sail fairly conservatively, but even with the main reefed and roller part way in, the boat esily makes hull speed of 7 knots and when running down wind with some surf can maintain 8-10 knots with no problem.
 

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#61 ·
Now i've got a good picture, as I see it the problem is not the sail it is the dodger. changing the sail is not going to help much, lower the dodger or lift the boom at the tack.
 
#62 ·
Why not just modify the sail? Lifting the boom at the tack will not help as that will not shorten the leach of the sail. The leach of the sail appers too long. The last pic I posted was from PO and although it is hard to see, I believe the topping lift is what is holding the boom above the dodger. As mentioned the doger frame is original to the boat, so either I am rigging the sail wrong or the sail was cut wrong. I think if I do a loose tack I can solve the problem. I will rig a cunningham that will allow me to raise the main tack up about 6 inches and this will also pull the clew up about 6 inches which will clear the dodger.
 
#65 · (Edited)
If you can get the sail high enough so the boom clears the dodger...problem solved. I have a rugged cunningham on my main. It really helps a lot to move the belly of the sail forward when close hauled. In using the windvane (I see you have one too) it's critical to get the sails trimmed just right so the helm is balanced. The vane won't work if there's a lot of weather helm.
 
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