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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Building new 46' Schooner-Rigged Motorsailer:
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Thread: Building new 46' Schooner-Rigged Motorsailer: Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-08-2012 01:23 PM
bobperry Good point Jon.
I get calls from people with 30 year old boats complaining that they have to replace the fuel tank. Like it was a design shortcut to make it out of black iron. I try to explain that black iron was for years the industry standard for diesel tanks and if they had owned a wooden boat they probably would have a hell of a lot more than a tank to replace by now.
01-07-2012 09:00 PM
SloopJonB
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingStar View Post
Well, score one more for wooden hulls, they're not noisy. It's one reason I don't like aluminum canoes.
JonB, I'm not offended, just slightly disagreeing. I also think that the primary reason that fg replaced wood was manufacturing costs. They're cheaper for mass production.
I'd also look into a cold molded boat if I could have a custom one. Though a well built plank on frame should last the rest of my sailing life.
Reading these replies, I just had a flash that might help explain my point of view. When wooden boats get old, it's just a given that they will need extensive deck and house work, if not complete replacement. On the "fiberglass" side though, boats like the old "leaky teakies" like the CT41 and it's brethren were or are regarded as junk when they require the same thing for their traditionally constructed wood decks & cabins.

Complete reconstruction of the upperworks of a wood boat seems to be regarded by many as pretty well routine, even part of their "soulfulness" but the same kind of construction needing the same kind of repair on a glass hull or a wet deck core requiring repair, essentially makes the boat scrap to many of those same people.

Does that explain my puzzlement better?

P.S. the highlight is one of their BEST points IMHO - sound and feel.
01-07-2012 06:24 PM
WanderingStar Well, score one more for wooden hulls, they're not noisy. It's one reason I don't like aluminum canoes.
JonB, I'm not offended, just slightly disagreeing. I also think that the primary reason that fg replaced wood was manufacturing costs. They're cheaper for mass production.
I'd also look into a cold molded boat if I could have a custom one. Though a well built plank on frame should last the rest of my sailing life.
01-07-2012 02:08 PM
bobperry Years ago Ta Chaio in Taiwan built an all stainless motor sailer.
Not my design.
What stays fresh in my mind is how noisy it was while they worked on it.
But I'm an audiophile who for a while travelled with a SPL meter in my brief case. Can't imagine they'd let me on a plane with one today.
01-07-2012 01:32 PM
kd3pc Likely a stupid question...

given that monel is 1/3 to 1/2 copper....how would one pass the EPA and state requirements for not leaching in to the water...??

Monel is 10-15 times the cost of glass work per pound, how will one meet the budget given that monel sheet alone could be $350-400K

How is it formed and attached to the superstructure, as some of the monel fasteners I have used are actually quite brittle and required pre drilling or copper paste in the hole for ease of installation...kind of like soap on screw gun screws? Welding would create a zone ripe for galvanic I would think?

TIA
01-07-2012 12:48 PM
Jeff_H SJB,

In many ways, I understand what you are saying and your sense of a disconnect between the argument for plank on frame, vs the reality of wht is implied, and frankly if I were building a large custom cruising boat, cold-molded costruction is near the very top of my list and plank on frame near the bottom. That said, I also understand the justification of plank on frme supporters regarding a boat builing technique which purposely allows discrete repair and replacement.

The decision on a specific hull material and method of construction, like so many aspects of boat design, is a balance of its strengths and liabilities, as well as the personal preferences of the designer and builder.

As it turns out, it would appear that the OP was serious that he intends to build from a Monel skin with Stainless steel framing. Frankly, that seems ill-conceived as this is an much heavier boat building method so the boat will end up with some combination of less stability, greater displacement, less strength, or less carrying capacity.

And frankly the likelihood of getting built sounds even less feasible than it did in wood since this is a wildly more expensive builing method, one that I seriously doubt could be constructed within the million dollar budget proposed, and which will likely be a very different behaving boat than the one designed by Atkins nearly 80 years ago.

Jeff
01-07-2012 12:47 AM
SloopJonB
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingStar View Post
JonB, you're being a little hard on wood boats. The three (wood) keelboats I've owned all lasted more than 30 years before needing significant repair. My current strip planked hull is 43 and has needed no hull or deck work beyond routine maintenance. I agree with Jeff's assesssment of wood construction.
I don't mean to be hard on wood boats - I love them and if I was going to build, I'd only consider epoxy cold-moulded. I regard your strip planked construction in that same vein. My comments were only about traditional carvel or plank on frame construction. Also, they were not intended to be critical so much as puzzled by the attitudes I discussed. To me, of all the methods of boatbuilding available, carvel plank on frame strikes me as about the LEAST desirable or long lived. By contrast, many people seem to think it is the best because of its supposed longevity - which "longevity" was the core of my disagreement.
01-06-2012 11:44 PM
Jeff_H
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Jeff:
You need to get some weight out of the stern of your schooner pal.
I know what you mean, she was so heavy in the stern that even the paper was forced to tilt in the scanner....

That said, I always thought she was one of my better designs.

Jeff
01-06-2012 10:04 PM
WanderingStar JonB, you're being a little hard on wood boats. The three (wood) keelboats I've owned all lasted more than 30 years before needing significant repair. My current strip planked hull is 43 and has needed no hull or deck work beyond routine maintenance. I agree with Jeff's assesssment of wood construction.
Of course USMC1833 is planning to build a metal boat. I hope to see it someday, maybe even crew for him.
Taylor's review of Magpie is not in the first volume of "Good Boats". It is included in the summary book "Thirty Classic Boat Designs". He dreams of using staysails between the sticks.
01-06-2012 09:46 PM
Capt Len Dreaming about ,rebuilding or owning a wooden vessel has little to do with getting around builidng codes or avoiding the possibility of blisters,workhardened plastic or polyester lemmnoria. Timepassing doesn't do it either. Dorothy, Providence and Duen are examples of fine wooden vessels still without the major bypass spoken of here.I think that if the old girl still turns your crank you owe something in return .If not,there's always craig's list.I'm certainly not against looking for a trophy vessel and wood ,plastic or steel will surely outlast me.After that, I'm no longer much excited about the romance of the sea.
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