SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Shroudless Masts

6K views 20 replies 14 participants last post by  bljones 
#1 ·
What do you guys think about Shroudless Masts?

I'm looking at a Hunter Vision that this type of rig, and I'm just wondering what kind of sailing characteristics and durability I can expect.

Thanks in advance.
 
#2 ·
Clearly, it's not going to be as stable as a mast with shrouds so it would be expected to carry less sail and if you have sailing performance on your list this would probably not be your boat.

There seem to be a LOT of these for sale and there cannot have been that many made. I would avoid it like the plague.

Sorry in advanced to any existing Hunter Vision owners.
 
#3 · (Edited)
As I recall, the Vision will exhibit some flex in the mast underload by design, so she may be a bit less tender than a more traditional rig. These masts also tend to be much thicker than traditional stayed masts because they have to be stronger. Therefore, you'll have more weight aloft and potentially a higher center of gravity. On the positive side, there's no standing rigging to maintain, clutter the deck and create potential deck leaks. They're personally not my cup of tea and I recommend a "try before you buy" approach.
 
#4 ·
I noticed they are A LOT thicker masts that taper ascend. I did some digging and found that most builders are using carbon fiber to keep the weight down (so perhaps not that much more weight aloft.)

Definitely will need to hear more from people who've sailed both types of rigs.
 
#5 ·
Do some research on Sailnet it has been discussed. I had a Nonsuch 30 and loved it for the kind of sailing that most people do. Less work, decent performance unless you absolutely need to point really high - I had considerable success in no spinnaker class racing with mine.

The masts are seriously tapered and the top of the mast can bend up to 4'. The bending absorbs a lot of load when gusts hit so the ride is smoother. BTW, I can tell you nothing about the Hunter version of an unstayed mast.
 
#8 ·
While the Hunter Vision would never perform like a race boat, the Vision actually sailed quite well. Unlike Freedom's carbon fiber freestanding mast, the vision's mast was aluminum and so was fairly heavy as compared to a conventional rig. Unlke the comments above the Hunter Vision mast was intended to be flexible and so, like many modern rigs, self-depowering in a gust. That is a good thing. It means that the boat will feel a little less tender than most rigs.

The Vision had a nice interior layout and lot of nice features.

Jeff
 
#10 ·
the vision's mast was aluminum and so was fairly heavy as compared to a conventional rig. Jeff
Considering the significant weight of all the rigging you no longer have aloft, how much heavier IS it? I imagine the mast section, while WAY larger than a stayed rig, is probably not much different re: wall thickness - sort of like an I beam with a deeper web is it not?
 
#15 ·
The boat I'm looking at is a local listing, but it is the same year and model as the North South listing.

The one I'm looking at is not through a brokerage. It seems to come with better accessories. i.e. full enclosure, extra batteries, etc... It also appears that the couple who owns the boat never did much sailing and used it more like a cottage on the water.
 
#11 ·
It would be great to be able to do away with all the problems with swages, turnbuckles, corrosion, and rig tension but this technology is still in the experimental stage. One of the towing companies around LI Sound tried to kedge one of these off by the mast and wound up snapping it. It was a carbon fiber mast and, from what I heard, prohibitively expensive to replace. So apparently kedging yourself off by using the mast to heel the boat over is a tactic removed from the book of tricks with one of these.
 
#13 ·
Jees, my boat is 33 years old and it has fully battened big roach sails from a factory. The first American ever complete around alone sailed his open 60 with freestanding mast and people still calling the rig experimental... Freestanding rigs are part of American boatbuilding culture with very long history.
Everyone with freestanding mast know that while kedging mast needs to be supported with spare/jib/spinnaker halyard on opposite side.
 
#14 ·
I'd say anywhere that efficient beating to windward is not a priority the various free standing rigs make a lot of sense. For example reaching between islands in the Caribbean looks like a good fit.

Not having to rely on stays and shrouds to stand up, a well engineered free standing rig should provide considerable peace of mind. Using carbon to minimize the weight of the larger section spar makes sense too but ups the cost, of course.

Nonsuch and Hunter use aluminum, tapered sections and they are large with the attendant windage, Freedom has almost always used CF. Hunter and Freedom offer models with vestigal jibs but headstay tension is always going to be a problem, hence the lack of need to beat efficiently would be a consideration in choosing such a boat.

It is a bit of a mystery why these have not caught on in the mainstream more than they have - but I suspect that most of us spend a fair time beating and so...... Interestingly in the eastern Caribbean we saw very few of these boats there too.
 
#17 ·
How many degrees does it take off the close hauled course, exactly? I mean, I don't understand the physical principles that would make a free standing mast unable to beat upwind as well as shrouded masts.

Is it just the fact that the mast bends and you lose power?
 
#20 ·
How many degrees does it take off the close hauled course, exactly? I mean, I don't understand the physical principles that would make a free standing mast unable to beat upwind as well as shrouded masts.

Is it just the fact that the mast bends and you lose power?
The simple answer to your question is that the Vision will give up a few degrees of windward tracking ability but, unless you intend to race, that is not much of an issue unless you are worried about becoming embayed on a lee shore in a gale, eh?

Free standing masts are not new technology. They have been around for thousands of years. Free standers are also very common on small sailing boats, think Opti's, Pelican's, Flying Fish, Lasers and the like. Gary Hoyt founded Freedom Yacht's in the mid-1970's to build a line of yachts that could exploit the simplicity of the rigs to good advantage. They were/are very good boats but were/are viewed with suspicion by those raised and schooled on traditional fully supported rigs. A disadvantage of the free standing ring is that, as the weight of a boat increases its resistance to heeling also increases and, the amount of sail area necessary to move the boat at any reasonable speed also increases. When confronted with the loads imposed on the spar by much increased sail area, an unsupported spar will fall off or bend to leeward, shedding wind load-hence power-and so, efficiency. To counter this--to some extent--one can increase the stiffness of the spar but the resulting weight gain, unless the spar is tapered, is counter productive. Of course, tapering is costly. They laid-up carbon fiber spars of the Freedom line were very costly as they were not produced in great enough quantities to exploit economies of scale and they were also viewed with suspicion and distrust, particularly after the disastrous performance of the carbon fiber rudder shafts in the Fastnet in '79.

Warren Luhrs--Hunter Marine--developed the Vision series of boats for comfortable, easy, uncomplicated sailing and, while not my cuppa tea, seem to be very good at serving that end.

FWIW...
 
  • Like
Reactions: HDChopper
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top