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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Shroudless Masts
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Thread: Shroudless Masts Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
01-06-2012 01:09 PM
bljones
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsySailor View Post
Helpful hint- look beyond Yachtworld by going to the broker's website for more info.

North South Yacht Sales | Used Sailboats For Sale | Ontario, Canada
From the listing:
"2 Private Staterooms and lots of Ventilation throughout
Free Standing Rig with Bulb-Wing 4'8" Draft, Keel Stepped Mast and Walk through Transom.
Windlass, Custom Carpets, Custom Davits, Dinghy & 15 HP Outboard, Auto Pilot, GPS, Wind Speed-Direction, Full Batten Main, Furlng Genoa, Electric Winch, Cockpit Enclosure, Customized larger V-Berth & Much More
Over $20,000 in upgrades over past few years including Espar heater, New SS Radar pole with NavPod & Raytheon C-Series Radar & plotter, repeater at nav station, & new haylards."
01-06-2012 12:13 PM
svHyLyte
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsySailor View Post
How many degrees does it take off the close hauled course, exactly? I mean, I don't understand the physical principles that would make a free standing mast unable to beat upwind as well as shrouded masts.

Is it just the fact that the mast bends and you lose power?
The simple answer to your question is that the Vision will give up a few degrees of windward tracking ability but, unless you intend to race, that is not much of an issue unless you are worried about becoming embayed on a lee shore in a gale, eh?

Free standing masts are not new technology. They have been around for thousands of years. Free standers are also very common on small sailing boats, think Opti's, Pelican's, Flying Fish, Lasers and the like. Gary Hoyt founded Freedom Yacht's in the mid-1970's to build a line of yachts that could exploit the simplicity of the rigs to good advantage. They were/are very good boats but were/are viewed with suspicion by those raised and schooled on traditional fully supported rigs. A disadvantage of the free standing ring is that, as the weight of a boat increases its resistance to heeling also increases and, the amount of sail area necessary to move the boat at any reasonable speed also increases. When confronted with the loads imposed on the spar by much increased sail area, an unsupported spar will fall off or bend to leeward, shedding wind load-hence power-and so, efficiency. To counter this--to some extent--one can increase the stiffness of the spar but the resulting weight gain, unless the spar is tapered, is counter productive. Of course, tapering is costly. They laid-up carbon fiber spars of the Freedom line were very costly as they were not produced in great enough quantities to exploit economies of scale and they were also viewed with suspicion and distrust, particularly after the disastrous performance of the carbon fiber rudder shafts in the Fastnet in '79.

Warren Luhrs--Hunter Marine--developed the Vision series of boats for comfortable, easy, uncomplicated sailing and, while not my cuppa tea, seem to be very good at serving that end.

FWIW...
01-06-2012 12:07 PM
PsySailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
Re-read the North South listing- full enclosure and an Espar heater.
The boat currently listed on kijiji sails out of my marina and has seen a fair bit of cruising.

It's not in the equipment list.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...url=&imc=pg-fs

EDIT: I did find it in description on broker page though. Thanks!
01-06-2012 11:49 AM
bljones
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsySailor View Post
The boat I'm looking at is a local listing, but it is the same year and model as the North South listing.

The one I'm looking at is not through a brokerage. It seems to come with better accessories. i.e. full enclosure, extra batteries, etc... It also appears that the couple who owns the boat never did much sailing and used it more like a cottage on the water.
Re-read the North South listing- full enclosure and an Espar heater.
The boat currently listed on kijiji sails out of my marina and has seen a fair bit of cruising.
01-06-2012 11:32 AM
PsySailor How many degrees does it take off the close hauled course, exactly? I mean, I don't understand the physical principles that would make a free standing mast unable to beat upwind as well as shrouded masts.

Is it just the fact that the mast bends and you lose power?
01-06-2012 11:26 AM
PsySailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
It would be great to be able to do away with all the problems with swages, turnbuckles, corrosion, and rig tension but this technology is still in the experimental stage. One of the towing companies around LI Sound tried to kedge one of these off by the mast and wound up snapping it. It was a carbon fiber mast and, from what I heard, prohibitively expensive to replace. So apparently kedging yourself off by using the mast to heel the boat over is a tactic removed from the book of tricks with one of these.
Sounds like they were not too bright. It's a different technology, not experimental. If you don't know what you're doing, your bound to make mistakes... Just like with anything...
01-06-2012 11:14 AM
PsySailor
Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
If it's the North South listing, it is a boat better suited to your purposes than the Catalina.

I have never sailed a free-standing rig, but it strikes me as being a good cruising rig. With no stays to tune or replace, it cuts down on maintenance, and may also cut labour costs when/if the stick is pulled.
The boat I'm looking at is a local listing, but it is the same year and model as the North South listing.

The one I'm looking at is not through a brokerage. It seems to come with better accessories. i.e. full enclosure, extra batteries, etc... It also appears that the couple who owns the boat never did much sailing and used it more like a cottage on the water.
01-06-2012 11:09 AM
Faster I'd say anywhere that efficient beating to windward is not a priority the various free standing rigs make a lot of sense. For example reaching between islands in the Caribbean looks like a good fit.

Not having to rely on stays and shrouds to stand up, a well engineered free standing rig should provide considerable peace of mind. Using carbon to minimize the weight of the larger section spar makes sense too but ups the cost, of course.

Nonsuch and Hunter use aluminum, tapered sections and they are large with the attendant windage, Freedom has almost always used CF. Hunter and Freedom offer models with vestigal jibs but headstay tension is always going to be a problem, hence the lack of need to beat efficiently would be a consideration in choosing such a boat.

It is a bit of a mystery why these have not caught on in the mainstream more than they have - but I suspect that most of us spend a fair time beating and so...... Interestingly in the eastern Caribbean we saw very few of these boats there too.
01-06-2012 10:57 AM
CrazyRu Jees, my boat is 33 years old and it has fully battened big roach sails from a factory. The first American ever complete around alone sailed his open 60 with freestanding mast and people still calling the rig experimental... Freestanding rigs are part of American boatbuilding culture with very long history.
Everyone with freestanding mast know that while kedging mast needs to be supported with spare/jib/spinnaker halyard on opposite side.
01-06-2012 10:50 AM
RonRelyea
A Lot for sale??

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsContent View Post
Clearly, it's not going to be as stable as a mast with shrouds so it would be expected to carry less sail and if you have sailing performance on your list this would probably not be your boat.

There seem to be a LOT of these for sale and there cannot have been that many made. I would avoid it like the plague.

Sorry in advanced to any existing Hunter Vision owners.
************************************************** *****

I see 4 32' Hunter Visions and 8 36' Hunter Visions on Yachtworld ... that "a LOT" ??
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