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Reality at Sea - For Cruisers, Singlehanders, and Normal People.

110K views 374 replies 87 participants last post by  snippys_dad 
#1 ·
I put this post in the BFS thread, then decided it deserves its own thread. I think it's pretty damn interesting - and will definitely spark some thought...if not wild-eyed, spittle-flying discussion. Great stuff.

Fire in the hole!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Below is a series of 6 videos that, I think, show the very stark reality of cruising (especially singlehanding). It's sure to raise some hackles and fire off some vitriol (which is always fun) - but it's one of the most informative, honest, unadulterated, unglamorous, and real accounts I've seen.

Many of you will be seriously rolling your eyes and getting annoyed in the first three minutes of the first vid...but you should really just buck up and watch all 6 - then feel free to erupt...or sympathize...or whatever...

DrakeParagon and the "NYC to Bermuda Nightmare" in his Westsail 42:













This series kind of covers the gamut of issues faced and lessons-learned. And despite it all, he made it.

Thoughts?
 
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#214 ·
#215 ·
Thanks for that post Jackdale. I hadn't seen the other ones but they are real eye openers. This is the one I was refering to...

Yachting Monthly's Crash Test Boat Capsize - YouTube

It's a link to the one I watched on youtube, which is part of the series that you posted. I really couldn't imagine the violence that would happen inside the cabin had that test been done during the dynamics of a violent storm. I can't recall if it was during a rollover, broach, or pitchpole but in the Pardey's book, Lin Pardey was thrown out of her bunk and noticed as she was getting up that she had left indentations of her teeth in the woodwork.

Scary stuff...
 
#222 ·
No worries Drake. This thread is what forums are all about in my opinion...newbs and salts just talking about sailing. As you can see, Sailnet is a great place for that.

As for heavy weather technique, here is one of the best threads I've come across:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship/48237-heavy-weather-sailing.html

Lin and Larry Pardey have posted in that thread - as well as many others that know their stuff.

I was pretty skeptical about the JSD early on because of the chance of getting pooped - and potentially damaging the rudder with a wave strike at the stern. But almost all the stories I've come across (including the stuff in Roth's book, Jeanne Socrates' account with her knockdown/recovery off Cape Horn, etc.) have been nothing but positive.

Here's a rather longwinded post from that HWS thread that goes over some technique Roth recommends and ends with a pretty cool idea on retrieval:

Okay, so back to the JSD. As I said, I've been reading the Hal Roth book mentioned above and it has some very interesting (and complimentary) takes on the JSD.

As for the "you only deploy under bare poles" dictum above, this seems to not be so cut and dried according to the experts. So be careful. For example, Roth cites numerous examples where boats deployed the JSD while running with a headsail to maintain directional stability. One example of this was Egress II, a Discovery 42 that was caught in a 5-day Force 10 storm near Tonga. They kept the headsail up as they deployed, then doused it shortly after. They did fine. Then you also have Jeanne's mention of Tony Gooch who said:

He told me that before he deploys it he could well be running under a headsail (probably staysail) alone.

And, though most of the examples of the JSD usage on the JSD website mention that those boats were, in fact, running under bare poles at deployment, it does not seem to be any kind of "requirement", or even recommendation, in the actual instructions for launch:

Jordan Series Drogue - Launching and Retrieval

One of the design objectives of the drogue is that it may be launched with one hand under storm conditions without leaving the cockpit and that it will not foul even if the boat is rolling or yawing. This capability has convincingly been confirmed as described in Performance at Sea.

To prepare for instant launching, the drogue is faked down with the bridle end at the bottom of the bag and the bridle legs led up the sides and fastened to the attachments at the corners of the transom. The weight (chain) is at the top of the bag.

To launch the drogue, the chain is dropped overboard and the drogue permitted to feed out. Within a few minutes, the drogue will gently take hold with no abrupt deceleration.

Through many launchings the drogue has never fouled. In fact, this launching capability has probably saved the lives of a number of sailors.


So what's the big deal about bare-poles- or sail-up-deployment? According to Roth, it's all about the design of the boat and the timing of the deployment (i.e. - the conditions). His 4 "on-boat" tactics in order are as follows:

1. Reefing sails (Force 6)
2. Heaving-to (Force 7)
3. Lying a-hull (Force 8)
4. Running off (Force 9)

So in his method, bare poles come third. But he cautions that this method can be dangerous depending on the design of the boat, its windage, and the conditions (e.g. - it's easy to get beam-on to the waves). He uses the Banjo disaster as an example of how things can go bad lying a-hull. He also mentions that you can get a great deal of roll, making for a very uncomfortable ride.

Then comes 4 - Running off, at Force 9, which is pre-deployment of the JSD. He talks at length about using the sails (specifically the headsail) to help the boat maintain directional control:

In strong winds, a tiny hanked jib or staysail up forward will help the yacht stay on course. If the boat is still overpowered, try dropping most of the sail and show just the head.

So, it's clear that as conditions build, Roth recommends going from bare poles at Force 8 (to lie a-hull), to showing a bit of headsail to start running as conditions go to Force 9. Then if you have too much speed as conditions build to upper Force 9, lower Force 10 - he says you go to bare poles. It's this middle ground between lying a-hull and running under bare poles that can be the most dangerous in terms of a wave strike....unless you gain the downwind momentum through use of some sail.

Therefore, it all comes down to the timing of when you actually drop the JSD chain over the side. On the one hand, according to the examples, you can deploy it a little earlier (while running with a headsail but before you go to bare poles), or you can deploy it a little later (after you've doused all sail and are running too fast under bare poles). Both have been done successfully as shown in these many examples. Clearly, neither technique is "wrong".

Now let's look at Jeanne's case...

She was basically at Roth's step 2 with conditions building from Force 7 to Force 8. Also, bear in mind that this is the southern ocean off Cape Horn, where seas can be way crazier than localized conditions. The critical issue here, according to Roth, is that, again depending on the boat, you'll not be able to effectively run off under bare poles until the wind has built considerably. And depending on sea conditions, lying a-hull can be one of the most dangerous techniques.

So, Jeanne opts to skip step 3 and prepares to quickly deploy the JSD (i.e. - earlier in the process rather than later). The chain is secure for the existing conditions:

With the boat upright, even well-heeled, I made sure the chain stayed put without a problem.

She's waiting for the right time to move from step 2 to step 4 for deployment when she's struck by a wave and knocked down. The boat is now no longer "upright" - it's mayhem. During the knockdown (which happens while she's hove to) the prepped JSD deploys. Note that from that point on, she has no further knockdowns or serious danger, counter to what has been implied above. Obviously, its quite the opposite.

Not knowing the JSD has deployed, she tries to immediately move to step 4 and head downwind and drop the chain. Yet the mainsail won't fully douse - and as she tries to let out some more headsail to move downwind, the furling line breaks and the sail unfurls and flogs, so she has to douse it.

For a while, the remaining mainsail fights with the JSD which she now notices has already deployed. And though this would have been the point she would have actually dropped the chain over the side as would be the "proper order", she's fine, the boat's fine, it's all good. She sets the AP and goes to sleep.

The point is that it's all a matter of timing and situational judgment in horrific conditions far more than a matter of "strict technique". In fact, she was following the "proper technique" (per Hal Roth) for the existing conditions. And she had all the right equipment prepared and readied. What interfered with all this was a freakin' wave strike off Cape Horn (where "rookies" rarely survive) which resulted in a knockdown - which broke a lot of stuff on the boat (lines, cars, poles, etc.) - and which washed the chain and/or the body of the prepped JSD overboard. That's really the bottom line here IMUSO (in my usually superior opinion).

Jeanne sails very big. Jeanne handled a knockdown off Cape Horn, which even Hal Roth will acknowledge, requires serious seamanship. Jeanne rocks. She has earned respect.

End of story.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

One other interesting thing from Roth's book is a pretty cool retrieval idea for the JSD (retrieval being its Achilles' Heel). Check this out...



The question he has is how the windlass would handle the cones. So who knows? But it's the coolest idea I've seen in a while. Anyone want to test it?

In the mean time, you really should read Roth's book.
 
#226 ·
As for heavy weather technique, here is one of the best threads I've come across:

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship/48237-heavy-weather-sailing.html

Lin and Larry Pardey have posted in that thread - as well as many others that know their stuff.

I was pretty skeptical about the JSD early on because of the chance of getting pooped - and potentially damaging the rudder with a wave strike at the stern. But almost all the stories I've come across (including the stuff in Roth's book, Jeanne Socrates' account with her knockdown/recovery off Cape Horn, etc.) have been nothing but positive.

Here's a rather longwinded post from that HWS thread that goes over some technique Roth recommends and ends with a pretty cool idea on retrieval:
I'm just AWESTRUCK by Hal Roth's JSD retrieval idea! WOW! Why didn't I ever think of something like that!?!?! Fantastic! And I'm really looking forward to reading all that thread on heavy weather sailing techniques. Thanks smackdaddy!
 
#223 ·
Drake, welcome aboard. Your vids are a great escape for a winter on the hard. Thank you.

Looking at Hal Roth's idea on getting the drogue off the bow for retrieval, I wonder if you could set the autopilot and motor into it, while pulling it all up on the foredeck? I wouldnt want to do that by backing into it, for fear of fouling the prop. From the bow, you would think you could get back to neutral in time, if you began to run it over.
 
#227 ·
Hi Minnewaska, I'm really looking forward to trying Hal Roth's JSD retrieval idea. After half and hour of hand cranking the JSD in on the jib sheet winch a couple of times it's really exciting to think of using my electric Lighthouse windlass to bring it in instead! And maybe the engine would help too. Very exciting!
 
#230 ·
There is a saying among motorcylists: $15,000 and 15 miles don't make you a biker. I don't sail much but I did qualify inshore skipper throught the US Navy sailing program in addition to having been an On scene leader for firefighting and damage control parties for all engineering spaces-rescue and repair, repair locker leader and fire marshall as well as damage control console operator, and relief on scene leader for helo crash and smash fire party. The reason I enumerate this is that the first thing that struck me in the first video (I haven't watched the rest yet) is the fact that the cockpit is a mess. When you prepare to get underway the VERY first thing you need to do is SECURE for sea. Drake obviously hasn't done even this basic first step, that he survived and learned is great, however, his learning curve really didn't need to be nearly so steep.
 
#234 ·
Hi Ninefingers, Yup, that's her! Those photos are such a dream! Take it as rumor as I don't know if it's true, but someone recently told me that Titan XIV is actually just the support boat for a much larger one...

After Titan XIV arrived to continue the tow (12 hours after the collision) and I had relayed all of the relevant information I had to them, I had to speed off for Bermuda to enter the harbor and set anchor before sunset. Gail the crew on Cha Cha later told me that Titan XIV used some kind of canon/harpoon gun to shoot a light string over Cha Cha's bow.. To this they attached a spare halyard to use as the tow cable and asked Cha Cha to be extra careful with it because it cost over $3000.... here's a quote from a story which Gail wrote... I'll ask for her permission to post her entire story here...

"What followed was the tow from hell. It was so fast that it felt like we were inside a donut behind a speed boat. We radioed to ask them to slow down but they said they could not go below 8 knots as they were 'only idling' the engine and would lose steerage otherwise. This was almost as bad as being in the storm, but at least it only lasted four or five hours. "
 
#239 ·
Google the Titan XIV and you will find she's available for charter for $70,000 per week or so.

Somehow, I find it amusing that the uber-rich have to pimp their things out so they can afford them. That's probably unfair, but honest.

I will often google a mega yacht that we find in an anchorage, just to learn what it is. They are always for rent.

Once, we had our lunch anchor down in the bay with a 150 ft power yacht several hundred yards away. When I looked it up, some newspaper articles said it was reportedly owned by a NYC mobster. We decided not to socialize. However, it too was for rent.
 
#240 ·
...

Somehow, I find it amusing that the uber-rich have to pimp their things out so they can afford them. That's probably unfair, but honest.
They/we don't. Offering one's yacht for charter makes it a business endeavor and, virtually, the entire cost of acquisition, operation and maintenance, tax deductible. One only needs show break-even or a modest profit once every 5 years or so.
 
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#245 ·
Hardly see anyone here (offshore) using hank on sails. Not a whole lot of "If's" in using a modern RF system. Let's see for me it's been, what 14 years and NO, NADA, yep a big zero on the failure part. Not a whole lot to maintain either. Flush the bearings out once in awhile, check the extrusions, change the line every few years as needed and I'm good to go. I would not leave home with out it. But, hey i still use a manual windlass, so some things die hard for some folks.....
 
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#246 ·
Great Learning Experience

Been lurking on Sailnet for the past year and only have a few posts but felt compelled to say thanks to the OP for starting this thread and I hope the good karma spread by drake is returned to him. Although it sounds like after finding Monique you may have to call it even:D As a matter of fact, you may owe karma one!

As to Cha Cha......I'm calling complete BS. Having been raised in the Newport, RI area, highly unlikely he was broke. That's not a cheap place to live. Yes, his engine didn't work well, but he still had to have fuel. Not cheap. He had to stock the boat w/ food. Not cheap. IMO Cha Cha was gambling on the kindness of strangers. You really think he was going to Bermuda w/ a woman he didn't know AND NO MONEY IN HIS POCKET? DOO DOO.

From this, I've learned to ask a lot of questions in a situation like this. Ask specifics about remedying the problems. Has he determined what's causing the stuck rudder? Has he even attempted to look? I'd definitely ask about the skipper's ability to reimburse for damages.

Last, I'd like to hear other's opinions on maritime law concering a situation like this. Could Drake have pursued Cha Cha legally?

Drake, I subscribed to your YouTube channel. I read this thread start to finish. A great thread! I've learned sooooo much from Sailnet and I hope to reconnect w/ the lifestyle in the years to come.

Now, I need to run. Velocity channel is running a show called "Against the Tide". It's an around the world race for amateur sailors (professional/experienced skippers on each clipper). Unfortunately, after looking into joining the next race. It turns out they charge each crewmember $70,000 to complete the entire race. Bummer!

Thanks again!
paul
 
#256 ·
Drake,
Did you do anything to strengthen you mast compression post? I was thinking that movement would really effect your standing rigging which may lead to a cable/fitting failure, as there would be a lot of fatigue and all your rigging pre-tension settings would be thrown off. I do not think you should have any noticable compression of the post.
Regards
 
#258 ·
Hi Casey, I strengthened everything I could... I replaced the 3" diameter schedule 10 pipe compression post with a ridiculously overbuilt 3.5" diameter schedule 80 pipe. The walls of this pipe are a 1/4" thick! Way overbuilt. I also custom welded an additional I-beam and thru bolted it to the stringers underneath the old I-beam which supports the compression post... Now have 2 I-beams supporting the post. The 2.5" thick plywood/glass layered deck was crushed between the mast and the compression post, so I cut it all out and rebuilt it with layers of aluminum plate and fiberglass cloth saturated in West System... Then I figured "oh what the heck the mast down anyway", and spent months removing all the hardware, sanding it all down to bare aluminum and painting it myself with zinc chromate, Awlgrip 545 primer, and Awlcraft 2000 paint (oyster white...) I had replaced the chain plates before leaving NYC and they still look good.. I might replace the standing rigging before we push off in April...
 
#260 ·
I have not seen this comment yet.

When bringing out a roller furling foresail, it is essential to keep a little tension on the furling line to prevent a rats nest from developing in the drum. If you are single-handing just put a wrap around a winch.

Also the angle of the furling from the block just before the drum is crucial so that line will not just wrap around the bottom or the top of the drum, jamming it.
 
#268 ·
My understanding is that you really want as little stretch as possible in the JSD line. Somewhere I read that you're supposed to let out more line every hour to limit chafe, but I don't understand that. I need to get me one of these to experiment with.
 
#271 ·
I always wonder why folks put such huge sails on the RF system when offshore. I sized down to a 107% working jib. In lighter airs I fly the cruising shute. When it gets heavy I'm on the hanked on staysail and when it gets really ugly the storm jib.

Always pulled in by hand as well. Not to difficult to luff up a bit or head a little further down wind. Butt simple....
 
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#272 · (Edited)
Another epic thread. I don't think I've said it before, so I'll say it now. SmackDaddy, I'm glad you're here. You've contributed a lot to the value of Sailnet.

Now, for my comments. (MedSailor gets out his trusty armchair)

Well done Drake. You did a very good deed for helping out Cha-Cha. I also really like the style of your videos as they're raw. Unlike the mags and more polished sailing videos (that never show you the decision-making, fear or mistakes) your videos are the 99% of sailing videos. The magazines are the 1%.

Fatigue is an under-rated player in this story. It saps the will, it degrades the ability to make decisions, and it's cumulative. I know a little about sleep physiology and I cringed when you mentioned just how short your naps were. You will function MUCH better if you are able to allow yourself 20-25min naps occasionally. There are ways to calculate how long it would take to see a ship on the horizon based on speed. I would think that if you were going slowly it would calculate out that you might be able to take longer naps. Also, I think AIS is a huge boon for single-handers. The big boats that would turn you into flotsam usually all have AIS and the boats small enough not to have it are, I think, a little more likely to have a lookout/watch.

Another important thing to know about fatigue is that your perceived impairment does not increase as you get more tired, but your actual impairment does. Thus as you get more and more fatigued you should be suspicious of your own decisions and critical operations should be "idiot-proofed" in advance if at all possible.

On drag devices
I've never used a JSD but I've been on a boat that deployed a sea anchor off the bow in a storm off South Point HI. The boat was a 40ft plywood-fiberglass no-nonsense commercial fishing boat. The owner, a native Hawaiian has used the sea anchor off the bow countless times to get sleep in storms, or to just stop and fish. When I was aboard it was probably only 35-40kts and there were no breaking waves but they were short and confused due to our location. It was incredible how calm things became once the sea-anchor was out. I was very impressed. Why don't more people recommend launching the sea-anchor off the bow? Seems like it would be harder to fore-reach that way....

I like Roth's retrieval idea. I've done something nearly identical to transfer the load from a stern anchor to the bow in an overly-exotic anchor setup. It worked like a charm, even under a huge load anchored in 35kts with 6' rollers in the anchorage. . I think the bow roller, engine, and windlass would be a better set-up for getting it in. (care of course taken not to foul the prop) Another thing I REALLY like about his idea, is that if the JSD isn't working for you from the stern, you can release it form the stern, so that it's now off the boat and "give it a try" streaming from the bow as a sea-anchor. First-hand accounts of tactics in storms seem to show that different boats act differently in storms and what works for one, does not work for another. His rig allows you 2 options instead of one and it's easy to switch between.

The Amsteel idea I don't like. While a smaller-diameter rode allows for space savings, it makes you much more prone to chafe. Chafe, is the real enemy in these scenarios it seems. How many accounts have you read where everything was going great at anchor in the hurricane, or laying to a sea-anchor when chafe ruined it all. A small diameter amsteel line would chafe in no time flat. Were it not for this fact, I'd be using 1/4" amsteel for my anchor line... Also remember that amsteel doesn't hold traditional knots or splices well, they come undone under load. You have to know the more exotic splices and knots.

On reefing: I do not think that you should have to use a winch to reef your furler. You should have a rigger look at how your line is run. For as much thought as I put into my setup, my rigger (which I bent over and hired) came up with a better idea in under a minute. Everywhere the line turns we use Harken blocks, and before we come to our final block, there is a spinlock cleat. This is along the same lines as the ratcheting block, but works better. It also provides extra insurance against the line coming undone and releasing the sail. The rigger could also tell you if your lines are too big for your blocks (causing huge friction) and find other issues.

If you haven't taken a good look at Strong-Track by tides marine, I think you should. Anyone who single or short-hands can benefit from it. I've seen it work first hand (as advertised) consider it safety gear and it is prioritized in my budget accordingly.

For those that don't believe in furlers, I pity you. Life is SO much better over here. :D I do have a recommendation though: You can install side-by-side headstays and permanently keep a jib and genoa hanked on, side-by-side. Combined with 2 downhauls you would have a pretty versatile rig that would require a minimum of time at the foredeck. Hardware such as this: will help separate the headstays.


Lastly, on stopper-knots. I've had a highly loaded figure 8 get sucked into a sheet-block and not want to come out. I now use 1/2 of a double fisherman's knot (would that be a single fisherman?). I agree with leaving a tail on the knot, but if you can afford the extra 6" of line you should tie a SECOND overhand, 8 or fisherman's knot at the very end. This knot gives you much better grip than just a bare tail for getting the line back in service.

Again, good on ya' Drake for going out and doing it, and sharing the un-glorified version with the unwashed masses so that we can all learn from it. It truly is the mistakes that we learn better from, and I prefer to learn from OTHER'S mistakes whenever possible. :D Cheers for helping out another boat in distress. You're a class act.

MedSailor
 
#274 · (Edited)
Fatigue is an under-rated player in this story. It saps the will, it degrades the ability to make decisions, and it's cumulative. I know a little about sleep physiology and I cringed when you mentioned just how short your naps were. You will function MUCH better if you are able to allow yourself 20-25min naps occasionally. There are ways to calculate how long it would take to see a ship on the horizon based on speed. I would think that if you were going slowly it would calculate out that you might be able to take longer naps. Also, I think AIS is a huge boon for single-handers. The big boats that would turn you into flotsam usually all have AIS and the boats small enough not to have it are, I think, a little more likely to have a lookout/watch.
I agree, a singlehander like Drake really needs to learn more about trying to manage sleep more effectively... Everyone's different, of course, but I think his "3 minute naps" are next to worthless, and find it a little hard to believe he never slept more than 25 minutes or so at a time during this entire voyage... There is definitely a better way...

Lots of literature available out there about managing sleep for such an endeavor, and if you're serious about singlehanding, I'd recommend attending one of Dr. Claudio Stampi's seminars offered in conjunction with the Bermuda 1-2...

Everyone wants the magic bullet/one size fits all solution to sleep management, but like so much else regarding sailing and passagemaking, it is largely a learned discipline, requiring a lot of practice... You have to come to understand your own body's circadian rhythm, and when sleep periods are likely to benefit you the most... Perhaps the biggest problem, is that in the Northern European/Anglo-Saxon/American culture, there is little emphasis placed on the value of "napping", nothing comparable to the Latin tradition of la Siesta... The ability to nap effectively really is a learned behavior, one that many sailors IMHO have a totally unrealistic expectation regarding how quickly they may be able to master...

Agreed, AIS is a game-changer for the singlehander, one which anyone now sailing solo would be foolish to do without...

The Amsteel idea I don't like. While a smaller-diameter rode allows for space savings, it makes you much more prone to chafe. Chafe, is the real enemy in these scenarios it seems. How many accounts have you read where everything was going great at anchor in the hurricane, or laying to a sea-anchor when chafe ruined it all. A small diameter amsteel line would chafe in no time flat. Were it not for this fact, I'd be using 1/4" amsteel for my anchor line... Also remember that amsteel doesn't hold traditional knots or splices well, they come undone under load. You have to know the more exotic splices and knots.
As per the recommendation of Don Jordan himself, chafe should not be an issue with a series drogue... The bridle gets shackled to strong points at the corners of the transom, and the Amsteel would never come in contact with anything to chafe upon... In my experience, Amsteel is highly resistant to chafe, in any case...

Here's further explanation from John Harries on MORGAN'S CLOUD:

Jordan Series Drogue Deployment System On Expedition Sailboat

Not sure why you feel it doesn't hold splices well, Amsteel is one of the leading choices of rope for arborists, and on winch lines for offroad vehicles, after all... An eye splice in Amsteel is actually one of the easiest splices there is to make (if I can do it, anyone can), all it requires is a bit of additional lockstitching to make it secure...
 
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