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12 Hours Ago 10:40 AM
smurphny
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kellyculbert View Post
Can I ask, with regards to the market, I'm looking for a first sailboat for my family and I (there's 7 of us). I'm looking very affordable, nothing fancy at all! Could you recommend one and weigh in on what I should expect to pay given the market?
A lot depends on how much work you want to do yourself. If cruising is a goal, seven people will need a fairly large boat to be "comfortable." I decided to buy an older boat in order to be able to do the work as much as to sail. My older, narrow,35' 60s vintage boat would not accommodate seven imo. It all depends on your goals. In looking around, the first mission would be to look at all the different boats that you can afford. Then narrow down the choices by comparing relative safety (do you want to go offshore?), costs to get into seaworthy condition, and costs of upkeep/storage. Read all you can about the weak points of any particular boat. Knowledge is everything in figuring costs. The clearer you can make the picture, the better. Many underestimate costs which ruins it for them. There have been many threads like this. If you do some searching on the Sailnet forums, there is a wealth of good information.
14 Hours Ago 09:07 AM
kellyculbert
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Can I ask, with regards to the market, I'm looking for a first sailboat for my family and I (there's 7 of us). I'm looking very affordable, nothing fancy at all! Could you recommend one and weigh in on what I should expect to pay given the market?
14 Hours Ago 08:39 AM
JimsCAL
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Some great additions to update this old thread! I agree with a lot of the things that have been said. With the strengthenng of the economy in the last couple of years, the boat market has stabilized. However the number of people looking for sailboats today is nothing like it was in the heyday of the 60s and 70s. Project boats from those years are basically worthless. The sweet spot today is boats from the 80s and 90s as they have taken the depreciation hit but are better built than many of the older boats, have nicer interiors, and are more likely to require only minimal updating.

I agree with the observations that younger people today have fewer hands-on skills. Prior to retiring, I spent almost 30 years teaching engineering at the US Merchant Marine Academy. Over that period I saw a steady decline in the percentage of new students that knew how to use tools or understood how engines and other machinery worked. They were great at using computers however. Not their fault, just a change in how things are today. Dads don't work on the their own cars much anymore and most things get discarded and replaced with new when they stop working.
15 Hours Ago 08:28 AM
smurphny
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

I think a lot of the reason that people, young or old, do not work on boats anymore is that there are fewer marinas where you can do that. It used to be that all marinas were places where boat owners came to work on their boats, tell tall tales, have a beer, and enjoy hanging out at the boatyard. Most of those places have been converted to condos or high-priced marinas that don't allow people to get their hands dirty. That's probably a reason many young folks don't get involved. Our culture has turned into a world of NO--no this, no that, everything controlled, packaged, and sterile. Sad.
16 Hours Ago 07:03 AM
chall03
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
As Bubs said, the market is really that bad - no doubt about it! One of the reasons is most younger people want things that require little or no work to operate and that go very fast - just the opposite of a sailboat. The older folks, a category of which I'm a card carrying member, tend to enjoy sailboats a lot more, but most are unwilling to take the time to learn to sail.
Beware of generalisations. I have spent most of my 20's and now 30's 'messing around in boats'.

Nike is another example that youngsters are not afraid of a bit of hard work.

Alas I think in general, you might be right.
22 Hours Ago 12:54 AM
robert sailor
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

I have been buying and selling boats for 35 years, for personal use. So over that time period I have bought and sold 7 sailboats. If you buy a commodity boat (entry level production boat) it had better to be clean and well cared for because commodity boats are pretty much about price because there are so many built. If the market is tough price is the only thing going for a commodity boat and only those that are in excellent condition sell. The other commodity boats will sit for months until the price has been set at the giveaway level and then they sell. If you can find a nice boat that has a following and is considered by most to be a better built boat and it has been maintained and is in real nice shape this boat will always sell in pretty much any market.
OK now the challenge..it is damn hard to find a older better built boat that is in excellent condition as there just not that many around. These boats get snaped up by savy buyers in fairly short order. There are tons of used sailboats out there but there are very few that are in excellent condition.
23 Hours Ago 11:53 PM
BarryL
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Hey.

All I can say is that last year I was trying to sell my 1986 Oday 35. I thought my boat was in good condition It had a 2012 main sail, new standng rigging, good headsail, 2012 furler, decent electronics, looked nice, etc. It took some time, but I think I sold it for a fair price and te new owner got a god deal.

Boats that are priced right sell, boats that are priced too high don't. It's as simple s that.

My o'day wasnt perfect. The engine had over 4000 hours, there were some dings in the hull and some gel coat cracks. But it was a solid boat in good condition that could be used right away.

Barry
1 Day Ago 09:09 PM
TakeFive
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
...The fact is that boats are much more like houses in that context - they require maintenance and repair in an entirely different manner than cars. You don't get rust rotted quarter panels and rocker sills in a boat. (and yes...I know all about wet core)...
The ravages of water, salt, and UV exposure don't stop at the shoreline. Indeed, they can be just as bad - or worse - on a boat. And the cost and time to do repairs can far exceed the value of the boat. In that respect, boats are far more like cars than they are like houses.
1 Day Ago 09:03 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

I get the feeling that a lot of the commentary here is based on an underlying attitude that boats are similar to cars in terms of ownership - "end of life" and so forth.

The fact is that boats are much more like houses in that context - they require maintenance and repair in an entirely different manner than cars. You don't get rust rotted quarter panels and rocker sills in a boat. (and yes...I know all about wet core).

I have found the boat market to be firming up around here but prices are way down from several years ago. It appears to me that the pricing structure of old boats has simply become a lot more realistic that it used to be. As I recall, older boats used to retain way too much value instead of depreciating appropriately. People got used to the prices of new stuff inflating and expected their old boats to do the same instead of decreasing in value.

You still see some of it on CL and other sites - 40+ year old C&C 27's asking nearly $30 grand and so forth but the bulk of the market seems to simply have become restructured to a more realistic scale of pricing.
1 Day Ago 07:15 PM
TakeFive
Re: Is the sailboat market really this bad?

Although I spelled out my beliefs of why wage stagnation and concentration of wealth may be killing the market for boats, Jeff_H's explanation underscores one fact that is totally unrelated to the health of the market: Perhaps those '60s and '70s vintage boats whose prices are plummeting are actually reaching end-of-life. It happens. Nothing lasts forever. I'd be careful to use data from end-of-life boats as an indication of the overall marketplace.

There does come a time when the smart money goes for newer boats. Spending more up front for a serviceable boat that will retain its value with moderate maintenance may well be a wiser way to spend your money than to get a nearly-free boat that will suck you dry and end up being worth what you paid for it (which means nearly nothing).
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