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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Palmer Engine
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Thread: Palmer Engine Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-03-2012 01:00 PM
dabnis
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperiorGeezer View Post
Ahah!!, Sloop was right.

Dabnis
02-03-2012 12:08 AM
LakeSuperiorGeezer
How Do They Do That?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
... sodium filled valves (how do they do that?)...

Dabnis
Here is one way: Process for the production of a sodium-filled valve - MTU Motoren- und Turbinen-Union Munchen, GmbH
02-02-2012 11:17 PM
msmith10 I don't know how they did it but I do know why. Sodium melts at 208 degrees. It takes a lot of energy to make the phase change from solid to liquid, so the valve absorbs a tremendous amount of heat at this point without a large change in the temperature of the valve.
I remember as an undergrad chemistry student being fascinated by the concept of something catching on fire upon contact with water. I got hold of a little (1/4" cube) piece of metallic sodium. I dropped in the sink and poured some water on it, and it did just what they said it would.
I was lucky I didn't burn the lab down or get booted out of college. It was a very dramatic reaction.
02-02-2012 09:58 PM
dabnis
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
I think they outsource to Cadbury's who use the same process they use to get the caramel inside the Caramilk bar.
If I remember from my high school chemistry class, sodium is pretty nasty stuff, especially when you put it in water. How about it, some of you chemical engineering or other knowledgeable folks, how do they do it?

Dabnis
02-02-2012 08:38 PM
SloopJonB
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
sodium filled valves (how do they do that?) Dabnis
I think they outsource to Cadbury's who use the same process they use to get the caramel inside the Caramilk bar.
02-02-2012 08:30 PM
LakeSuperiorGeezer
Hard Seats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabnis View Post
It would appear that short of up grading the valve system the advice of MMO & lead additives may be about all one can do? If it runs well, maybe take a compression test once in a while, change oil often and hope for the best. It was my experience that valve related problems come on somewhat gradually so it shouldn't just quit running all of the sudden?

Dabnis
The lead substitute does work. I think amazon has it in bulk. Do a compression check to make sure everything is OK and then do routine maintenance. Also use premium fuel with no alcohol. Add a fuel stabilizer which means the fuel will not go stale on you for a year. Gasoline with alcohol is only good for several months. If you do need valve work, get a IHC (International Harvester) Cub tractor block and rebuild it if the engine has direct salt water cooling (no heat exchanger) because of corrosion and possible cracks. This is an L head engine which means the valves are in the engine block. Use the original crankshaft as it is has had machine work to match to the marine transmission. Parts are available on the internet.
02-02-2012 03:57 PM
dabnis
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperiorGeezer View Post
I rebuilt a 1972 Ford 302 used in a one ton van with an RV built on it. The engine had sodium filled valves from the factory, but no hard seats. The amount of valve seat erosion made me wonder if the heads could be salvaged. Not a problem. It looked worse than it was and the new hard seats fit just fine. All of the sodium filled valves were reground and reused. Unleaded gasoline came out several years later. It must have taken at least ten years for the problem to develop. In a boat it might happen sooner since a lot of operators run boat engines at wide open throttle.
It would appear that short of up grading the valve system the advice of MMO & lead additives may be about all one can do? If it runs well, maybe take a compression test once in a while, change oil often and hope for the best. It was my experience that valve related problems come on somewhat gradually so it shouldn't just quit running all of the sudden?

Dabnis
02-02-2012 01:44 PM
LakeSuperiorGeezer I rebuilt a 1972 Ford 302 used in a one ton van with an RV built on it. The engine had sodium filled valves from the factory, but no hard seats. The amount of valve seat erosion made me wonder if the heads could be salvaged. Not a problem. It looked worse than it was and the new hard seats fit just fine. All of the sodium filled valves were reground and reused. Unleaded gasoline came out several years later. It must have taken at least ten years for the problem to develop. In a boat it might happen sooner since a lot of operators run boat engines at wide open throttle.
02-02-2012 10:49 AM
dabnis
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSuperiorGeezer View Post
It was the reverse. Actually all you need is the hardened valve seat inserts to prevent valve seat errosion.The valved face has the stellite on it to increase valve life because of the heavy duty requirements of a marine or truck engine. The valve face without a hard seat to come up against it, actually pulls tiny bits of metal from the valve seat that it seals against and the valve gradually sinks into the valve seat metal. The lead acts kind of like a lubricant and prevents this errosion. If I were rebuilding an old engine for marine use, I would use sodium filled valves with stellite face, and hard seats.
Now I remember, you are right, sodium filled valves (how do they do that?),
and stellite inserts. That worked but the head continually warped even after having it faced and checking the deck. Finally pulled it out and replaced it with a Ford 302 V8.

Dabnis
02-02-2012 05:17 AM
LakeSuperiorGeezer Here are a few links for more info on the P60 used in sailboats: Palmer P60 Sticky Valves

Farmall Cub • View topic - WHAT OCTANE GAS IS BEST FOR CUB?
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