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Cuba in my sights

21K views 123 replies 44 participants last post by  canucksailorguy 
#1 ·
If I wanted to make a stop in Cuba while on a cruise how hard would it be?
I would like to see the island but I am not sure if all the hoops you jump through are worth it.
Anyone ever stopped there for any length of time?:D
 
#86 ·
I see you are new here. Welcome aboard and, hopefully, you will have some sailing content to contribute.

If you click above to find a listing of the sub forums, you will find one for politics, where you can rant away wit your political point of view.

You have no idea what news I watch and the quick trigger on Fox says it all about you. Take your propaganda to the Off Topic/politics section and you will find plenty of comrades to make you feel better and targets that are willing to engage in the battle with you.
 
#91 · (Edited)
hola

Interesting thread. Cutting to the chase, when the US government boards your boat on the way back to US waters, what do they look for?? If all you've done is buy a fish sandwich in Havannah are they going to disect your stool with an onboard microscope? Further, how can you be blamed or proven you were there?(see note below)~ as when you pass thru a yellow light these days driving an automobile they show a video taken by a traffic signal camera @ the DMV at the request or dismay of the driver, surely the preforementioned government blimps are not equipped with high resolution cameras...

NOTE: Having rethought this a bit, I assume some posters mean that after you enter Hemmingway Marina area, & meet with local customs, THEY STAMP? your US passport, thus that is what US officials will render as evidence of your elusive travels...
And I assume landing on the island without passing thru that harbour is foolish?

I have Cuban fishing friends here- they are a wonderful people- thank you to the poster for those amazing photographs

I do highly respected thoughts about getting your boat seized-- that is a potential risk and definitely worth considering!

Lastly, whoever said spending a little pocket change on trinkets is supporting a dictator... that's absolutely ridiculous, the money goes toward poor people eating or sipping a cold relaxing beer, furthermore there is strong argument to say that the more exposure to happy free Westerners, is more of a motivator for them internally to push to unchain, yet I digress...

I vote: go for it, but much of life's risks are about personal choice
Many science minds say you'd be crazy living in California along earthquake fault lines
Godspeed
-JD
 
#92 ·
A good friend (US citizen) just returned from Cuba on a University tour, properly licensed.

They had to complete a form that indicated their location in each hourly time slot for every single day, 24/7. Their bus had a gps that tracked every movement.

Romanticize all you want. The country is a police state.
 
#96 ·
A good friend (US citizen) just returned from Cuba on a University tour, properly licensed.

They had to complete a form that indicated their location in each hourly time slot for every single day, 24/7. Their bus had a gps that tracked every movement.

Romanticize all you want. The country is a police state.
Here's a quote I found in Wiki: On June 27, 2002 U.S. Congressman Ron Paul said in the House of Representatives:

"...'Is America a Police State?' My answer is: 'Maybe not yet, but it is fast approaching.'"[20]

FLORIDAJAXSAILOR will probably feel like he's still in the USA.

I think that the only course of action for USians, who wish for free travel to Cuba, is to push for the lifting of the embargo. Until then obey the law.
 
#93 ·
I am sure under a government program you're going to be monitored that's part of the ironic aspect of entering legally thru the paperwork channels
I don't feel dramatic statements like police state are productive~ I think it's a wonderful country the pictures spoke volumes and I will certainly go in 2012, my personal choice
though all of the above comments regarding caution are sound

years ago someone once warned me not to go into any of the all black bars in Savannah~ now those musician friends welcome me like treasured family- thus I will be taking my guitars to Havannah
Cheers
-JD
 
#95 · (Edited)
I've lived there (and in other "tightly controlled" countries as well), and Cuba is comparatively a pretty benign environment as long as you mind your own business and decline from getting into political discussions. Don't draw undue attention to yourself, and ignore your impulse to go off exploring away from approved areas.

Getting into/out of Cuba for an American is not hard; plenty of folks do it in contravention of the travel restrictions (and no, I'm not going to post a how-to guide.) The Cuban government is happy to accept their contributions to the Cuban economy. What travelers need to carefully consider is what the repercussions may befall them upon their return to the States should their transgressions be discovered. It ultimately comes down to individual assessment of risk/reward. If you take your vessel to Cuba, you could very well wind up losing it -- that risk is too high for me, but you may feel differently.

As far as chartering a boat there -- I am unaware of any charter service for sailboats. Fishing charters (captained, of course) are available, as are sightseeing and dive charters. I think it safe to say that there is no bareboat market at this time.
 
#100 · (Edited)
I'm going to weigh in and offer some direct insight on the monitoring aspect as someone who does this for a living. I'll provide a little open-source intel on some of the current Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance (ISR) programs in the area for you. I can tell you the area is actively monitored. Whether they choose to take an interest in you depends on a number of factors. Without discussing capabilities I can tell you these aren't just dudes looking out the doors of their aircraft with binoculars; these things have a wide range of airborne sensors onboard that can precisely detect, identify, locate, and report on virtually anything in the region. The bottom line is there is no 'sneaking' to/or back from Cuba.

The government spends several hundred million dollars a month on securing that portion of our border, and while it seems harsh and unwarranted from a cruiser's perspective; I can tell you that the primary interest is not the cruising community, sailors are typically just collateral damage in a much larger picture of international security. While stopping John and Jane Doe aboard the S/V Crappynauticalcliche is not really the goal, by traveling to or from Cuba, you are interjecting yourself into a game with players you'd rather just not be associated with- on both sides.

Lexington Institute

"The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) operates the largest non-military fleet of airborne ISR platforms in the world. The U.S. Coast Guard operates a fleet of C-130H/J long-range surveillance aircraft and is in the process of acquiring new HC-144A maritime patrol aircraft. The Office of Air and Marine (OAM), a branch of DHS's Customs and Border Patrol, has some 290 aircraft and helicopters including refurbished P-3 maritime surveillance aircraft and new King Air 350s with sophisticated ISR suites. OAM currently operates six Predator Bs. One of these has been converted into a maritime surveillance platform in a joint effort with the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard plans to acquire a number of vertical take-off UASs for use on its new National Security Cutter. It is currently experimenting with both the Scan Eagle and Fire Scout UASs."

I'm not taking a side in the political discussion and I'm certainly not saying don't go; but if I were hell-bent on going to Cuba, I would make sure to do it in one of the few legal ways available. If the legal avenues don't apply to me (student, journo, etc), I'd have to content myself by sailing somewhere else. Until it's opened for travel, there's nothing on that rock worth losing my boat over.
 
#101 ·
Lots of entertaining replies here. Lots of people who don't know what they're talking about, and a few, such as Jon, who are quite knowledgeable.
Someone referenced the SAIL magazine article - that was me. I also did the Cruising Cuba seminars at the recent Cruisiers U in Annapolis.
There are legal ways to go to Cuba - a general license is one of them, for charitable and other reasons. Whoever said go and write an article is clueless - you have to be an accredited journo to get that permission.
If you want to do a philanthropic trip, that's do-able. One American gal I know brought over about 20 bicycles on her ketch for use in the St. Patrick's day parade in Havana (don't ask, it's a loooong story), then donated them to a local church. She had permission to go.
Alternatively, as someone noted, going through the Bahamas, then returning either far to the north, or continuing on through the Caribbean, also works. Is it legal? No. Will you get caught? Highly unlikely. Should you do it? Your choice, I'm not advising you that way.
Some specific remarks - Cuba does NOT stamp your passport. Being Canadian, I had to ask them to stamp mine, which they did.
Canadians don't require the health insurance because of our government health insurance. Everyone else that I'm aware of does. It's between $2 and $3 a day.
Bring American funds - they'll be exchanged for tourist pesos at a 13% discount. Buy some local pesos for the farmers' markets and other non-tourist places.
It is VERY rare to have the bite put on you by Cuban gov't officials, although it is starting to happen in Hemingway. If I find out you paid a bribe there, I'll personally ream your butt with a rusty wire brush - it makes it tough on the rest of us. If you refuse to pay, the issue goes away without rancor. The officials know better, but they see friends working in the tourist business getting rich from tips, and they want their piece of that action.
For charts, contact Bluewater Charts out of Lauderdale - they will either provide you with copies of the official Cuban chartbooks, or the new NV chart series. Make sure you have Calder's guide, it's indispensable.
Someone at my last seminar asked 'why go to Cuba rather than elsewhere in the Caribbean, given there's so much hassle?' A good question - and the answer is because there is NO place like Cuba. It's simply wonderful, even with all it's faults and rough spots. Superb cruising, wonderful people, beautiful scenery.
Anyone with specific questions is welcome to pm or email me directly.
 
#102 ·
....There are legal ways to go to Cuba - a general license is one of them, for charitable and other reasons....
Alternatively, as someone noted, going through the Bahamas, then returning either far to the north, or continuing on through the Caribbean, also works. Is it legal? No. Will you get caught? Highly unlikely.......
So, please quote your experience with getting any number of US citizens a general license.

Each time you weigh on this, you seem to ultimately tease illegal activity. The last time you engaged in this subject, you seemed to try to say it was legal to accompany a Canadian citizen, as long as they paid for everything (even if they didn't) as I recall.
 
#103 · (Edited)
Minnewaska, you have a decidedly political take on this issue - something more evident this time around from what I've seen of your comments on this issue in this thread. Cuba, for me, is not a political issue, which is not to say that I don't have an opinion regarding that aspect of cruising Cuba.
My understanding of your laws is that it is legal for an American to go to Cuba provided they do not spend money. Going as the guest of a Canadian or other non-American satisfies that requirement.
The difficulty would lie in proving to your authorities you didn't spend money. I've not experienced that with anyone I know, nor do I expect to, but I would be most interested in hearing from someone who has, and learning what came of it. Thus far, no one has come forward with that story.
As for my experience in getting someone a general license - that's not something I can, or need to, do. That's between the American concerned and your government. I couldn't possibly have any influence on the outcome - so your comment is entirely pointless and is, in fact, provocative.
If you want to pick a fight, find someone else please.
As for illegal activity, I see American boats from 27 footers to megayachts in Hemingway and Veradero every time I go. I have photos, which I won't reproduce so as not to cause difficulties, but as was noted in this thread, someone from the American Interests section out of the Swiss embassy walks the docks at Hemingway regularly and knows full well what's going on. The fact is, with very few exceptions, they simply don't care. If they did, you'd hear about a lot more seizures and prosecutions. Tell me, are you able to name even one boat seized by the US for traveling to Cuba? I thought not, because I just searched and couldn't find one.
Americans are going, illegally, to Cuba all the time. The last figure I heard quoted that I trust was 40,000 annually, going through a third country. Some estimates are over 100,000 per year.
Here, from the State Department, is a short summary of the situation as it concerns mariners:
Cuban territorial waters are extremely dangerous and difficult to navigate, even for experienced mariners. The potential for running aground is very high and the bottom type is unforgiving. Search and rescue capability in Cuba is limited and running aground will often lead to the complete destruction and loss of the vessel. U.S. boaters who enter Cuban waters (legitimately or illegitimately) have encountered problems that required repairs and/or salvage; costs for both are significantly higher than comparable services in the United States or elsewhere in the Caribbean. In addition, the Government of Cuba does not allow the use of the U.S. dollar for transactions and U.S. credit cards are not accepted in Cuba. Cuban authorities typically hold boats as collateral payment. U.S.-registered/flagged vessels belonging to U.S. citizens have been permanently seized by Cuban authorities. Due to the lack of resources, the quality of repairs in Cuba is inconsistent. Repairs take significantly longer in Cuba than they would in the United States due to lack of the most basic materials and to bureaucratic impediments. Boaters are often confined to their boats while repairs are made. Boaters can be detained while Cuban authorities investigate the circumstances of their entry to Cuba, especially if their travel documents are not in order or they are suspected of illegal activities. Mariners and their passengers should not navigate close to Cuban territorial waters without possessing a valid passport, unless seeking a safe port due to emergencies. The ability of the U.S. Interests Section to assist mariners in distress is extremely limited due to current limitations on travel by U.S. personnel outside of Havana. Notifying the U.S. Interests Section, regardless of legitimately or illegitimately entering Cuban territorial seas is the most reliable way to obtain assistance.

The transfer of funds from the United States to Cuba to pay for boat repair and salvage is subject to restrictions codified in U.S. law relating to commercial transactions with the Government of Cuba. A Department of the Treasury license is required for such payments and applicants should be prepared to provide documentary evidence demonstrating the emergency nature of the repairs. U.S. credit or debit cards, personal checks, and travelers' checks cannot be used in Cuba so boaters should be prepared to pay for all transactions in cash. It is difficult to transfer money to Cuba and travelers have frequently been required to spend several hundred dollars for transportation to Havana to receive transferred funds.
The above information came from http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html. That page also includes the various general license categories with which one can travel legally to Cuba.
Most of what is there is accurate - a bit of it isn't quite how it really works, but that's to be expected. For example, navigating Cuban waters isn't nearly as tough as they make it sound.
If you really want to go, legally, get together with your church and set something up that benefits the Cuban people with your church as the sponsor. Arrange it around your boat if you want to sail there. Or take one of the people to people tours Obama authorized a few months ago.
 
#104 ·
Some further remarks in response to earlier comments in this thread -
When you travel to and spend money in Cuba, you are helping fund a government that has attempted to install missiles aimed at your family. By all indications, if we hadn't muscled them out, they would do it again.
Uh....I believe that was about, oh, 50 years ago and they needed the USSR, which no longer exists, to do this. Isn't it time to give up the past?
Oh, and to your question about seeing the interior of the island -- could you do it? Maybe. You'd probably need to get Cuban government permission to do so, and would be under close supervision and "minded" very carefully. What could happen if you just went on your own without Cuban government permission? Detention, expulsion, and probable loss of your vessel to the Cuban government. Again, a fairly high risk endeavor.
Yes, you can tour the island. You rent a car, or take your bike on a bus, staying at casa particularas - sort of like our bed and breakfasts. There is no problem, there is NO supervision of any sort. There is no detention, expulsion or loss of your vessel to the Cubans for traveling through the interior. Risk level is zero. Zero. Let me repeat that - zero.
That post is a prime example of someone who has NO idea what he's talking about, has never been there, but has to sound off and waste our time in reading his remarks - all while contributing to the furtherance of myths and hyperbole that makes up the discussions of many Americans about Cuba.
Rule #1 - if you don't know what you're talking about - try listening to those who do.
 
#107 · (Edited)
Canuck -- That was my response you qouted, and then you went out on a limb and said:

.
That post is a prime example of someone who has NO idea what he's talking about, has never been there, but has to sound off and waste our time in reading his remarks - all while contributing to the furtherance of myths and hyperbole that makes up the discussions of many Americans about Cuba.
Rule #1 - if you don't know what you're talking about - try listening to those who do.
In response I'll simply say that you are in fact wrong. I lived in Havana whether you care to believe it or not. Makes no difference to me. I also accept that you don't agree with me, and that's OK.

What does make a difference to me is that you have accused me of being a liar. That pisses me off.

Let's take a more critical look; you may want to get a mirror out for this next part.

My experiences as an American undoubtedly differed from yours as a Canadian. Since I was living there under diplomatic auspices, I am certain that I was subjected to closer scrutiny and attention than your average US Joe sneaking in in contravention of the US restrictions. We were restricted to the greater Havana area, and requests to go beyond that area were routinely denied. I can admit that my opinions may have been swayed by this constrained state and not fit every situation.

Having said that, you also cannot claim to know what it's like to be an American there. You admittedly have only arrived by boat, so you know nothing of the things that happen at customs and immigration checkpoints at the airports.

My assessment of the possible risks to Americans, arriving by boat and then exploring the hinterland, is based on admittedly a worst case situation (hence the term "possible.") It is, however, based on the outcome of a real event that happened when I was there and others before/since my time.

And as long as we're picking nits, I'll correct one of your earlier comments. Anyone trying to contact the US Interests Section at the Swiss Embassy is going to be disappointed -- it isn't there. This is a commonly held misconception that -- gasp -- "contributes to the furtherance of myths," which you seem to find objectionable.
 
#106 ·
Jordan, that's interesting you experienced those things. That's the first time I've heard of this. From the mariner's side of things, it's very rare. I've had one 'hint' which was easily ignored and not pushed, and one outright request, which I've mentioned - that was in Hemingway. My experience parallels that of other boaters.
As for the passport thing, I suspect it's because you, as a Canadian tourist, are clearly not going to or through the US and the stamp isn't an issue. Again, for mariners, the issue is that the boat may be going on to the States, where the stamp would create a problem. It's interesting to see these differences in procedure, since I've not gone to Cuba other than by boat.
Did they give you a tarjeta, a small card, when you arrived?
 
#108 ·
Yes, your experiences would be vastly different given your circumstances in Havana, and most decidedly, you would have been under greater scrutiny - but why would you not be aware of how the rest of us non diplomatic folk are treated, i.e. as in being permitted to roam the country. What would lead you to presume that non-diplomatic types would be treated the same?
I didn't mean to infer that you were lying and I apologize for that - but I've seen so many nonsense responses on this topic, it's fairly easy to get my favourite exercise of jumping to conclusions by stating that someone has no idea what they're talking about. Porfin, had you made it clear you'd lived in Havana under diplomatic auspices, that would have led to an entirely different response because the facts would be subject to a different interpretation.
The story you mention - in your second last para - it would be interesting to hear the details of it. Also - I have not heard of, or been able to find on the internet - any tales of Americans losing their boats or experiencing serious problems with Cuba - Alan Gross being excepted for obvious reasons. I think there's one guy who seriously grounded his boat and lost it some years ago, but I've not been able to find details and I'm not even sure he was American. I've heard worse tales about Mexican marinas.
Finally, for the benefit of all - where IS the US Interests Section in Havana? I've never been, but the understanding of all is that it was in the Swiss embassy. Since you have greater knowledge of this aspect of the discussion, it would be beneficial to the discussion to have you weigh in on them.
As for what it's like to be an American there - other than those in circumstances such as yours, my understanding is that they are treated no differently than any other foreigner - other than perhaps a bit more friendly curiosity from the locals they meet.
 
#109 ·
Where in the world do you get politics in my stance? Illegal is illegal. You continue to provoke US citizens to break the law, because so many already do and get away with it, even if you don't directly suggest it. Exactly how many of our laws should that logic apply to? " Don't steal that, but many people do, so if you want to steal it, you'll probably get away with it..............."

If you interpreted my comments on the genesis of the embargo to be political, you've misread me. We've had some of the most conservative and liberal Presidents since the embargo began and no one has rolled it fully back. Logically, not politically, there is more to it than meets the eye.
 
#110 ·
My opinions about how non-diplomatic folks are treated are based on discussions I had with them at various gatherings (primarily informal "happy hours" at the Canadian embassy and parties at the Marine House.)

The US mission (USINT) is located at the intersection of the Malecon, calle L and Calzada (immediately west of the Marti statue, and a few hundred meters west of the Hotel Nacional.) It's pretty hard to miss. Although it's a pretty ugly building (austere and utilitarian,) it ain't nearly as ugly as the Russian Embassy.

The case I cited was of a US guy trying to live out Buffett's "Havana Daydreaming," leaving an ex-wife and unpaid child support in the States. I related it in another thread. Long story short, he wound up getting deported and was forced to leave his boat behind. We did what we could to keep it from sinking at the dock, but when I left for good some three months later it was still there.

Don't get me wrong, in my heart of hearts I don't think the Cuban government has any interest in or desire to start confiscating pleasure boats. They really have little use for them, and as we all know boats are a resource draining asset. It's not like they are going to start selling them to the locals, right?
 
#111 ·
Minnewaska, when you reference 50 year old political events as a reason to avoid traveling to Cuba, it's really really hard not to make certain assumptions about what you're thinking...also, I do believe I've noted in several posts that I am not suggesting Americans go, but if they choose to, then here are some ways to do so. Some legal, some not so...I'm not being a moralist here, just pragmatic.
fwiw, my opinion on the embargo is that it is a failure, and should be dropped. Dispensing with any argument as to why it has been a failure in the past:
the current situation is that Cuba has lots of tourists from every other nation. vis a vis tourism, the embargo is pointless.
Insofar as not permitting US trade with Cuba, again, they can buy whatever they want from any other country in the world. The embargo is again pointless. Cuba's major problem is they don't have the money to buy goods, or medicines, or whatever, from the US. They're pretty much broke.
That being said, Cuba currently buys most of its food from America. So the embargo is nuanced.
It's a handy human rights tool for those who wish to rail about Cuba's human rights' issues - but when the US maintains diplomatic relations with China, it's a tad hypocritical wouldn't you say?
Should anyone break the law? No, I think not, although I'll accept that there are times when that indeed should happen. But if they're going to go to Cuba regardless of the embargo, or want to understand the parameters involved in the decision, I can certainly provide information in those areas.
 
#112 ·
hola amigos- logicos y locos tambien

Hola, I've been off the site for while it's good to see you folks back & actively chatting- I love the overall vibe of people wanting to go~I have more news to report of other sailors whom have gone recently & it is all positive! let me start there

Also, start by saying that I now live in a marina along the south west coast of Florida: I won't mention which out of fear(LOL) of those black helicopters in the sky(mentioned above). Though Miles & Bach are my musical flavours these days- I believe O Osborn wrote a song titled Paranoid, further Bruce Springsteen recently sang "Fear is a powerful thing"

I find it absolutely ridiculous & offensive that creed which Creedence waved forth regarding the amount of money that is spent on surveillance... can you only imagine if that money was used for our school systems~ I digress, as Chinese & Korean students zoom past us yet again in science/academics...

I will also mentioned the face of a beautiful, maternal gentle, woman who stepped off a catamaran beside me LAST WEEK with her two university age daughters~ who'd just come back from Jamaica AND Cuba aglow with a treasure of memories brimming from their blue eyes eagar to spill & share with their classmates, many of whom spent the summer glued to US television video games

alas, the journey winds onward
 
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