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Trailerable lake boat

13K views 36 replies 20 participants last post by  wcajdalton 
#1 ·
Hello everyone;
For some time now I have been haunting the forums, exploring old leads and messages, trying to learn more indepth of what I am looking for as I can't find or think of everything. So here goes.
Leisure sailing on mountain likes in Washington, Idaho, Montana, from 100 acres on up to the size of Ponderay in north Idaho or Flathead in Montana. Typical winds are from 8 mph to 15/18 mph in a day when you factor in the heat sinks and surrounding mountains, typical gusts up to 20/25 with higher at times. If you know mountain lakes then you know what I mean.
1. Shallow draft, under 16 inches, prefer no keel/skeg for ease of beaching at times.
2. Long cockpit, minimum of 6 feet 6 inches
3. Good cockpit storage
4. Swing rudder
5. Swing keel
6. Small cabin but capable of sleeping in with remodel of v berth, 4’ min. headroom? yes I know, difficult.
7. Porta potti room
8. Fairly dry sailing
9. Self draining cockpit
10. No need for a sink or stove
11. Tabernacle mounted mast
12. Dry sailing
13. Flotation material built in
14. Good initial stability
15. Self righting
16. Fairly close to wind sailing
17. Listed empty weight of under 2,000
18. 16-20 feet, preference is 18-19 feet
19. Good resale value
20. Lets put a max price of $3,500 on it.

I have limited the length as I have found in the past that even though a 22 foot O'day or Catalina is trailerable, it is a pain, taking 30-60 minutes by myself to put rigging up then down again, ended up putting it in a slip to use it more, so might as well have bought a 25 footer or longer then. I do not plan on racing it, more of leisurely sailing, 6-10 times a year singlehanded. I don't want a dog but I am not in need of a greyhound either.

What comes to my mind first is an O'day mariner 2+2, I suppose I have based most boats on that one, though have not seen one yet as the closest one is over 500 miles away that I know of.
There is a 20' Windrose (Laguna) for sale local I will look at this weekend, but so little information on the web about them.
Yes, I have thought of a SJ 21, don't care for the looks of the Mk I, but they are holding their prices around here, up to 3-4K. the O'day 192 and 20' aren't bad, but I really dont like the skegs as they may dig into the bottom if trying to beach. Thought of the WWP 19, but hear they are a little wet, slow, imho a little ugly and the price of one local is 5k.
Repairs don't bother me, I have recored boats before to where no one ever knew.

Thoughts, debates?
 
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#2 ·
I was going to tell you my 192 meets all the requirements except I don't think the cockpit is a full 6'6", but it is close.

Your prices may vary, but we bought our boat, this summer, from the original owner for less than $2K on a trailer. Granted it was not out fitted at all (no outboard, no electronics) but it is in great shape.
 
#3 ·
Precision 18, but the 4' headroom is a bust (its a shoal keel/centerboard combo). Good luck finding one for under $4k, but in this market, its "possible."

The Capri 18 is a better boat, but heavier, and deeper draft (26"). Cockpit is 6'8" on the capri, I think 6'4" on the precision (both production boats that have decent resale as they are still made and parts are readily available). On the precision there is a keel though... so it's not much different then the 192 in that regard.

The 192, is probably your compromise boat, but it's resale is likely less than a precision.

This is a better question for the trailersailor board...

Was thinking catalina 22, yeah big, but even with the swing keel it still sits below the bottom of the hull. Frankly I can't think of any design that leaves you with a round bottomed sailboat. Centerboards do, but you are looking for a cruiser.
 
#4 ·
I thought of Precision 18 also but have not seen any for sale in the 4 state region. Same as with a Sanibal 18. Or a catboat.
Been there done that with a 22 footer, might as well buy 25 then and if doing that, settle down with 27 for an all around boat.
But this is a small one for ease, with a large cockpit to enjoy others company or to sleep in occasionally.
Hence the thought of the mariner, but was not sure of other boats that are comparable to it.
 
#5 ·
If you are shopping in the Pacific NW, check out a Ranger 20. We cruised and raced one in OD local races for five years. Trailered it to mountain lakes and to Puget Sound.
One of the best sailing smaller cruisers ever built. Period.
Ray Richards-designed, and built in the main factory in Kent WA, and also under contract in Salt Lake City.
I used to tow it with a four-cylinder compact pickup.

There are over 600 of them out there and I have seen very good ones for under 3K.
The Portland fleet is still very active, racing and cruising.

Best,
LB
 
#6 ·
Thanks Olson34 reminding me of the Ranger 20. I had dismissed it due to the depth of keel and the looks of it strikes me as odd at first. But going back and researching it more indepth, yes, I think for all around use it matches what I am looking for. Though they are not easy to find even here in the PNW. One beautiful yellow hull in the tri-cities though I stumble on the price. But I am going Friday to look at another for half the price that from pics and description is in good shape. Though wife keeps reminding me I need to finish building the one boat and might think of selling others, she thinks 5 is to many boats.
 
#11 ·
Missouri Foxttotters, have used that nickname for years with horses, so it is interesting to find someone on a sailing site who understands what it is.
I almost bought a tennessee walking mule though..........though big and beautiful, she was so high strung I knew I couldn't deal with her.
Alas, no more horses to ride, so back once again to the other side.
 
#14 ·
You are asking for a lot in an 18' boat. Especially finding one in your price range. I would look at a Compac 16 or 19. Not performance orientated boats. They actually probably fall in the category of slow. Another slow one to consider is the West Wight Potter, they have a huge following out west and should be readily availlably. They make both a 15 and 19.

The Oday that was mentioned are good solid boats and they should all fall in your price range. There are a couple here in my neck of the woods (sw Missouri) that are for sale in the $2000 range. The capri 18 and the precision 18 are also nice boat that can be found in that price range.
 
#16 ·
Compac cat would be nice but to pricy. Looked at Potters but to chuncky looking. Mariner 19 2+2 fits the bill but rare here. Did not make it to see Ranger 20 due to 350 miles of snow ice and mountainf pass. Guy with the windrose 20 has put me off from looking at it for 3 ries, guess he doesnt want to sell. Its easy picking out boats that fit but harder to find what is availble locally.
 
#17 ·
Walking mules... too cool, don't do well with dogs (darn)...
Foxtrotters are great too. We use walkers (some use Rockys)... and trial dogs off horseback (officially field trialing).

Strongly recommend capri 18... but keel is fixed... but its a pretty stable, towable small boat. Sails pretty decent too.
 
#19 ·
What about old MacGregor Ventures? 17, 21? Think they even made a 19 and a 22 at various times. I have a 17 - I've beached it. The swing keel does hang below the hull, but it's an 800 lb. boat. Jump off the bow and shove it off the shore.... (actually just moving yourself to the bow will usually get it un-stuck) There's a youtube video of me out on the Potomac on a windy day. Advertised to sleep 4. 2 + gear wouldn't be a problem. There is no separate potty area, unless you count the entire cabin. I think they look better than a Potter and they're certainly cheap. There's no tabernacle but I'm tall but scrawny and I rig and launch it myself in 20 mins. (only 3 stays, no spreaders) It tows great behind a 6 cylinder RWD unibody station wagon. Just something to consider.
 
#20 ·
....Sealover.... I really like what you have to say about the Venture sailboats!
In a lot of ways they are the perfect boat with storage and vehicle constraints!
For myself I confess to being a sailboat polygamist and every month let my mind wander and consider the next sailboat love affair. That said, there would certainly be room in my pole shed for a Venture series sail boat. Certainly a plus
to move a boat around easy and explore all the "other" beautiful areas that
do not see much sailing !

Happy sailing
tom3215
 
#21 ·
Tom, Speaking of moving a boat around... Something nobody seems to talk about but is a huge plus for me -- you can MOVE the boat around on the trailer by hand, and pick up the tongue to sit it on the hitch ball. Just back the tow vehicle up somewhere near the boat and pull, lift, drop, latch, chain, chain, wiring, check lights and drive off. No spotter, no trailer smash marks on your license plate (or worse) and I haven't cranked a boat trailer jack in years! And the 17 at least will take up the space of one car in a garage for storage of repairs. And after retrieval if it's crooked on the trailer you can shove it straight with some effort. Fend it off a piling with your foot or standing on the dock hold it by the side stay, bow rope, and a foot on the rail - you're in full control. None of that is particular to the V17 -- it applies to any number of sub-20 footers but there really is something to be said for simplicity. Especially if on a tight budget, single-handed, or just lazy. See my signature? I've had kitchen appliances that have required more maintenance, parts, and repairs than my boat. I've spent $160 at West Marine since I've owned the thing, and half of that was the VHF. The rest of the repairs or modifications I've done were from Home Depot. My stays are coated galvanized cable (they sell it to tie dogs to a stake in the yard) and I stripped the plastic off the ends and swaged them myself. They've held up for years now with no sign of corrosion, and when coiled up on the cabin top or next to the mast at 65mph they don't scratch the finish. Thinking of replacing the halyards -- not sure if I'll get the nice stuff from Lowe's or if I'll splurge for stuff from a marine vendor.
 
#22 ·
SeaLover.....everything you just said makes so much sense on all kinds of levels
for many, many sailors. I like your signature also... "Keep the expenses low and the good times high"...... really, you bring up another excellent point that
really is not discussed a whole lot - cost. Sometimes one of the biggest challenges in this sport/hobby is not the weather, its longevity..... there are many sailor in particular and boaters in general that simply fade in and out of sailing and sometimes just stay out completely, because it just sometimes costs to much in a tight economy and that $2,000 to $5,000 per year just has to go.
I think thats why, more than ever the Venture series and other trailer sailers just make so much sense.

Of course I still want the Tashing 31, along with a signed photo of Bob Perry and myself with two beers in our hands hanging in the galley. But I am still happy with the Catalina 22 on the trialer as like you I can just stuff it in the pole shed out of the snow!

Happy Venture Sailing !
tom 3215
 
#24 ·
1. Shallow draft, under 16 inches, prefer no keel/skeg for ease of beaching at times.
2. Long cockpit, minimum of 6 feet 6 inches
3. Good cockpit storage
4. Swing rudder
5. Swing keel
6. Small cabin but capable of sleeping in with remodel of v berth, 4' min. headroom? yes I know, difficult.
7. Porta potti room
8. Fairly dry sailing
9. Self draining cockpit
10. No need for a sink or stove
11. Tabernacle mounted mast
12. Dry sailing
13. Flotation material built in
14. Good initial stability
15. Self righting
16. Fairly close to wind sailing
17. Listed empty weight of under 2,000
18. 16-20 feet, preference is 18-19 feet
19. Good resale value
20. Lets put a max price of $3,500 on it.
Reminds me of the guy who comes into the car dealership, looking for a 4-5 year old Honda ACCORD wagon, 5 speed, with only 5-7000 miles.
Anyways I'll bight; Pacific Seacraft 23 - 27'. You'll have to set your budget a little higher. You can't have everything for nothing.
 
#25 ·
Back after a bit of winter here.
I do agree with Tom3215 and Sealover in that to often people forget the simplicity.
When I review comments of people, the boat size increases, along with the cost in some cases.
My post was to get ideas to go back to the simplicity of sailing, trying to meet as many criteria as possible, full well knowing that not all can be met.
I did get to look at the Kent Ranger 20 last November, beautiful boat, well thought out, the "open cabin" is not such a bad idea, solid fiberglass without a core, yes, I have recored boats before and that is no fun. I would love to have one, another is for sale now that is in excellent shape, but the 2 things that still hold me back is minimum draft is 21", which means when it is on the trailer, it sits higher also. Now some will say "wow, only 21"?, whats the big deal, but when one is looking at simplicity... Sure, it could still be beached, sort of, but it is a larger boat overall than say the oday mariner.
Speaking of which, there is an old style mariner for sale on the coast which meets a lot of the criteria, but a long way to drive to see if in person it "feels" right.
I did finally get to look at the windrose 18, it fit most all of the criteria also, but...he was stuck on his price, period. So I pointed out deficiencies, the swing keel was out of a catalina 22 made to fit, the bow pulpit was off of another boat, the original holes not filled cleanly, the mast was bent, swing keel housing cracked, etc, etc.

So one keeps looking, which is part of the fun or one accepts that in life there is always trade offs, decides what can be traded off, in order to meet simplicity without making life even more complicated.

Sure, I would love to have a larger boat, even a Catalina 27, but then I might as well go a little bigger, I would prefer a 34' boat. But..
 
#26 ·
Take a look at thr Montgomery 15 or 17.
I just purchased a 15 and love it.

Bit more than your dollar limit, but I have seen them at your number.

The 17 is probably more the cabin space you desire, but it has a compression post, the 15 does not. Also a bit more to rig, but not much more. There is an active owners group and forums.

Jeff
 
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