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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Deck mounted versus keel mounted masts
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Thread: Deck mounted versus keel mounted masts Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-17-2012 10:59 AM
VetMike Wow. I got a lot more than I expected! I can now go out looking at boats with a much better understanding of the pros and cons of each. Thanks everyone.
02-16-2012 07:44 PM
fallard patrscoe:

Since your boat had a keel-stepped mast, I would have thought your boat had an aluminum casting with a flange to reinforce the hole in deck and distribute the side loads from your original mast partners. If not, the Tiara folks may have molded a lip to catch the mast boot, in either case they must have factored in lateral loads on your coachroof.

If you bolt your deck-stepped mast to the deck (via your sandwich?) you might check to make sure your coachroof is securely attached to a bulkhead near the mast or that the compression/jack post is securely bolted to the original mast step. As indicated in an earlier post, there is the possibility of the coachroof lifting if it isn't otherwise constrained. My boat (keel-stepped) has a SS stay that connects to a through-bolted padeye on my cast aluminum flange (on deck) at one end and to a bulkhead that is just behind the mast at the other end.

I'd also make sure the original hole in the coachroof is properly waterproofed if you have internal halyards. And then there are the electrical penetrations and cleaning up the old mast step.

It sure looks like your are going to a lot of effort to convert your rig!

It sounds like you are going through a lot of effort to convert to the deck-stepped configuration. You must have a strong feeling about this!
02-16-2012 06:42 PM
casey1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer View Post
Remind me never to let these guys borrow my boat!!
Yea their videos are pretty funny. Here we are babying our boats and these gues go out and beat the hell out of theirs, and that boat holds up well. There is on vid where they roll the boat to see what a capsize would be like.
02-16-2012 04:10 PM
skygazer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
A couple of things we learned. My incident happened at night. We got caught in a microburst on Lake Erie. Winds went from 18 to 70knots instantly and remained there for about 20 minutes. The infamous Lake Erie confused steep 4 foot chop was a bigger problem. A hacksaw is useless in these conditions as the boat goes abeam to the waves. The boat will pitch and alternately roll pretty violently in these conditions. No way you can get a hacksaw to work especially at night. We lost the whole rig and the boom as the boom was attached to a rigid vang which was twisted causing it to lock tightly. Be mindful that the rig was pounding on the hull so there was a sense of urgency. Bolt cutters would work for the rig with some difficulty because of the boat motion and movement of the shrouds. I wish I had a Holmatro EXC 14H. A Felco 12 cutter might work also which I now have. As it was, my racing crew of 5 was pretty handy. We had Johnson Wrap pins Wrap Pins, Velcro Locking Wrap 5/16in,3/8in (2) Johnson Marine on the turnbuckles so we just unscrewed the turnbuckles and and cut the hitech halyards with a sharp serrated knife. The biggest problem was the headstay which had an aluminum Harken foil. Not easy to cut especially when it is moving. My wife ended up hanging over the bow holding the locknut with a wrench while another crew stood over her and undid the bolt with another wrench. Sounds easy except it was night, the boat pitching, and my wife getting dunked a couple of times. That's not something you want to do on a regular basis. Bowpersons are hard to replace.
Thank you for the reply. On the video the hacksaw looked good, but the cable was well supported on the boat, and the collar held the small wires from fraying and moving. Perhaps there was a lot of tension also, helping it to part and clear the blade. I know from experience that the hacksaw will normally bind and drag and have difficulties if there is no supporting collar. I've never owned cable cutters, but both the straight manual cutters and the slower but easier hydraulic cutters looked like the thing to have. The explosive cutter looked too hard to use in bad conditions. I hate the idea of using wrenches and undoing nuts in an emergency.

I wouldn't want my wife hanging off there getting dunked!
02-16-2012 03:59 PM
skygazer
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Yachting Monthly has some great videos- here is one on demasting:
YachtingMonthly's Channel - YouTube
Remind me never to let these guys borrow my boat!!
02-16-2012 02:09 PM
Sanduskysailor A couple of things we learned. My incident happened at night. We got caught in a microburst on Lake Erie. Winds went from 18 to 70knots instantly and remained there for about 20 minutes. The infamous Lake Erie confused steep 4 foot chop was a bigger problem. A hacksaw is useless in these conditions as the boat goes abeam to the waves. The boat will pitch and alternately roll pretty violently in these conditions. No way you can get a hacksaw to work especially at night. We lost the whole rig and the boom as the boom was attached to a rigid vang which was twisted causing it to lock tightly. Be mindful that the rig was pounding on the hull so there was a sense of urgency. Bolt cutters would work for the rig with some difficulty because of the boat motion and movement of the shrouds. I wish I had a Holmatro EXC 14H. A Felco 12 cutter might work also which I now have. As it was, my racing crew of 5 was pretty handy. We had Johnson Wrap pins Wrap Pins, Velcro Locking Wrap 5/16in,3/8in (2) Johnson Marine on the turnbuckles so we just unscrewed the turnbuckles and and cut the hitech halyards with a sharp serrated knife. The biggest problem was the headstay which had an aluminum Harken foil. Not easy to cut especially when it is moving. My wife ended up hanging over the bow holding the locknut with a wrench while another crew stood over her and undid the bolt with another wrench. Sounds easy except it was night, the boat pitching, and my wife getting dunked a couple of times. That's not something you want to do on a regular basis. Bowpersons are hard to replace.
02-16-2012 01:24 PM
casey1999
Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer View Post
You raise an important concern. In the (good?) old days they kept an axe handy to cut away rigging. I'm not sure what the best tool choices would be with today's steel cables and metal masts. Any suggestions or thoughts of what you wished you'd had on hand during your dreadful experience? I've always found steel cable to be incredibly difficult to cut, I don't know what the correct tool for it is.
Yachting Monthly has some great videos- here is one on demasting:
YachtingMonthly's Channel - YouTube
02-16-2012 11:05 AM
Faster
Quote:
Originally Posted by skygazer View Post
You raise an important concern. In the (good?) old days they kept an axe handy to cut away rigging. I'm not sure what the best tool choices would be with today's steel cables and metal masts. Any suggestions or thoughts of what you wished you'd had on hand during your dreadful experience? I've always found steel cable to be incredibly difficult to cut, I don't know what the correct tool for it is.
We carry a pair of bolt cutters and a hacksaw, but I keep meaning to source some good carbide blades for the hacksaw.
02-16-2012 10:44 AM
sneuman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
I've had both and have had a total dismasting with the deck stepped mast. A keel stepped mast most like would have failed also under the circumstances. My current keel stepped mast does take in a little water but it seems a little more stable in a seaway. I like the fact that I can adjust the rake on the keel stepped mast which wasn't possible with the deck stepped ( I race). I guess it is to each his own.

PS- For any of those who think you might be able to salvage your mast during a storm think again. I can see saving your mast when it falls down due to a rigging failure in moderate conditions but in a seaway with high winds and waves it is dangerous at best. I can tell you, from experience, that a broken mast over the side with sails submerged and the rig pounding on your hull is a powerful motivator to cut everything away as quick as possible. I can also tell you it is not easy to do especially at night with the boat pitching and rolling. When that mast goes and you are beam to the wind you really don't care what kind of mast you have. Your only consideration is how fast you can get rid of it.
Agreed, my dismasting was in very extreme conditions and there was no choice, really but to cut. I did manage to save the boom, however.
02-16-2012 08:56 AM
skygazer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
I can tell you, from experience, that a broken mast over the side with sails submerged and the rig pounding on your hull is a powerful motivator to cut everything away as quick as possible. I can also tell you it is not easy to do especially at night with the boat pitching and rolling. When that mast goes and you are beam to the wind you really don't care what kind of mast you have. Your only consideration is how fast you can get rid of it.
You raise an important concern. In the (good?) old days they kept an axe handy to cut away rigging. I'm not sure what the best tool choices would be with today's steel cables and metal masts. Any suggestions or thoughts of what you wished you'd had on hand during your dreadful experience? I've always found steel cable to be incredibly difficult to cut, I don't know what the correct tool for it is.
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