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Tips For Compound, Polish & Wax

429K views 352 replies 140 participants last post by  SanderO 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Buff Polish & Wax

Try these products (for Gel-Coat only not intended for Awlgrip)

The Cliff Note Version:
Steps:
#1-Clean the hull with an acid-base cleaner like FSR, oxalic acid, or On & Off to remove rust & tannin staining. (only if necessary)​
#2-Wet Sand by hand 600 (if really bad) then move up the grits to P1000+ (only if severely oxidized otherwise you can start at #3)​
#3-3M Marine Rubbing Compound or Presta Gel Coat Compound (use a wool 3M super buff COMPOUND grade pad like the #05711) (if already fairly shiny start at #4)​
#4-3M Finesse It or Presta Ultra Cutting Creme (Use a foam 3M #05725 pad or 3M Yellow Wool # 05713 Note: Yellow wool is far easier and far more forgiving for a novice and will also last a LOT longer than any foam)​
#5-(OPTIONAL STEP) Presta Chroma - Use 3M #05725 foam, #05713 wool, or Blue Presta wool pad.​

The Full Detailed Version:

Tools & Supplies:
To be successful in completing this project you'll need a few items first. Don't be bashful in pulling out the wallet for these supplies, and while you do, think about how much money you're saving over a new Awlgrip paint job. The tools for this project can be used and will last, for years and years and with each use they cost you less.

#1) Buffer- A good rotary buffer is an absolute necessity. Unfortunately, one of the cheapies from Wal*Mart or Auto Zone doesn't count as quality and will yield rather poor results. If you're buffing the soft paint of a Yugo these buffers might work but not on a 30+ foot sailboat. The "cheapies" ultimately can't handle the loads & run either too fast or too slow for the material & pad combination you are using. They also cant usually accept quality polishing and buffing grade pads.

A machine with a thumb-controlled speed dial will be the best money you spend on an orbital buffer. I use a Makita model 9227C and it's proven itself to be a reliable and top quality machine. Most of the boat yards around here also use the 9227C for buffing and also with 7 & 9" sanding discs. The 9227C comes equipped with a thumb dial for easy access and instantaneous speed control and turns speeds from 600 rpm to 3000 rpm. The difference between my Makita and my brother's old Sears Craftsman is like night and day.

There are many manufacturers of speed-controlled circular buffers but Makita, Milwaukee, Flex (German company) & DeWalt build about the best and most reliable units. When buying a buffer it's important to buy a unit with a "no load" motor. "No load" means that no matter how much pressure you put on the buffer it will still spin at the speed you set it at. While some boaters have found a cheapy Makita knock-off buffer that will work they rarely last or can handle the loads. For a one-time job or a small boat, a Chinese Makita knock-off might be fine. If you want one of these Harbor Freight has one for about $40.00.

Buffer features that matter: 1) No load speed. 2) Weight (lighter is better when working overhead). 3)Thumb control speed dial. 4) Low speeds 600 rpm is a very useful speed but many circular buffers have a slow speed of 1000 rpm. 5) Soft start; this helps prevent sling upon startup. A power cord and handle design that makes cord replacement easy. 6) For gelcoat you want a rotary/circular machine NOT a dual action...

#2)Buffing Pads- You will need two or three grades of buffing pads or discs. I only recommend 3M pads because they are easy to find and most Napa Auto Parts stores stock them. The 3M heavy wool Hookit Superbuff pads are great for the compounding phase the part number is - 05711. For polishing the yellow wool Hookit polishing grade pad #05713 is another favorite. You can also use the 3M foam polishing grade pads like the #05725. They are wonderful for adding the finishing touch.

Use a heavy wool compounding grade pad for the compounding, and a polishing grade wool #05713 or the #05725 for the polishing stage and the same #05725 foam pad for the finishing or glazing stage.

I'll use 3M professional grade foam pads #05725 for the polish & glaze stage but I also use some Lake Country CCS pads. When buffing a gelcoat hull it's important to match the aggressiveness of the pad to the phase of the buffing though you can experiment too and have great results. You will just not get a good final shine using a heavy compounding grade pad even if you're using Finesse It or Chroma 1500 with it as the wool itself is too coarse.

#3) Microfiber Rags- Honestly, these are the best invention for buffing & waxing since the buffing machine. I've been using microfibers for years and years on antique cars and trust me they have come way, way down in price since their introduction.

A pack of three microfiber rags used to cost me in the vicinity of $40.00 but now you can buy a pack of three at an auto parts store or, gulp, even Wal*Mart, for about $3.00-$4.00. Occasionally Sam's Club will have them in 18 or 24 packs for about $12.00. When buying microfiber rags be very wary & conscious of the quality. A good rag will look more like a good quality terry cloth towel, with thick full loops. In short, it will be nice and robust and the quality will be visible to the naked eye. Even the worst quality microfiber rags will still outperform the best quality terry cloth so don't worry too much. Again, these rags are amazing and they will save you time! Trying to compare terry cloth or cotton rags to microfiber rags, for this job, is like pairing Michael Moore & Bode Miller in a ski race. There is NO comparison..

#4) Wet Sand Paper- Usually, any good quality wet-sand paper like 3M is fine and grits of P600-P1000+ are what will be necessary. If your hull does not need a wet sanding don't bother buying it. You can actually wet sand the entire project then after P2000+ simply do a polish phase but this can be a LOT of work.

#5) Compounds- All compounds & polishes are not created equally. Avoid buying any compound that uses terms like "essential oils" or has the word "silicone" on the label. Compounds with these additives are intended for novices. Unfortunately, these products, like 95% of the "one step" products will give a false & premature shine. This premature shine is caused by the "essential oils" or "silicone" & will cause you to stop polishing before you've actually polished anything due to this false shine. They add these lubricants to the product to make the wheel spin easier and to make you think you are getting a great shine. Sadly the shine is fake, premature, and caused by "essential oils or silicones":doh:

Perhaps the best, of the easily available compounds, is 3M Marine Rubbing Compound. I've used it with very good success over the years and it works. Is it the best compound? No not at all. Do I regularly use it when compounding? No, but I still do on occasion. 3M Marine Super Duty Rubbing Compound is a good product and it would be considered "paint shop safe" meaning it contains no "cheater oils" like silicone.

If you want very, very good products look up Presta Products online. Presta Gelcoat Compound is a GREAT compound that leaves a surprisingly high level of shine before you begin to polish. Presta is generally sold only through body shop distributors and is water-based (zero oils), but also worth every penny. For the average guy who just wants his boat shiny 3M is decent. If you're part of the anal-retentive crowd, who will settle for nothing but the best, do yourself a favor and look into Presta Products it's basically all I use these days and it performs well above the 3M stuff.


#6) Polish- After the compounding phase you'll need to polish. 3M Finesse It II is a good choice for a polish. I've used many bottles of Finesse It II and it's readily available and "paint shop safe". Unfortunately, Finesse It II does have some chemical binders or carriers in it that give a minimal pre-mature shine. A quick wipe down with a spray bottle of denatured alcohol and a rag gets rid of this so you can see the real shine you've created.

Again, for the next level, Presta Ultra Cuttting Creme with the yellow wool #05713 pad is a great step to follow the Gelcoat Compound with. It is my #1 choice for both light compounding and polishing. This unique product, like all the Presta compounds and polishes, uses a very high-quality diminishing grit media that starts out more aggressive than Finesse It II but finishes finer than it thus avoiding another full step.

The Process:

Buffing and waxing a boat the right way takes time and is a commitment. On a gelcoat hull of 36 feet I would plan on about 5 hours for doing a two-step polish, & wax or about 6-8 hours for a two-step glaze & wax. This is once you get caught up, after your first re-condition, including a wet sanding or compounding, it's usually only a two-step process each spring. Unfortunately, the first season of re-conditioning may take you up to 20 hours if your hull is heavily oxidized. It's a commitment but gives a beautiful finish.

One-Step Products:

Contrary to popular belief there is no such thing as a one-step solution for wet sanding, compounding, polishing, and waxing a fiberglass hull. The saying "you get what you pay for" is true and a $10.00 - $18.00 bottle of "one step" cleaner wax just does not cut it if you truly want your boat gelcoat fully reconditioned. Unless you're pinched by time and are satisfied with a quickie job, and many boat owners will be, you may want to stop reading here. Using a one-step cleaner wax is like going to the "touch-less" car wash and ordering the "wax" option for a Porsche. It's just not the same as doing it the hard & old-fashioned way.

Cleaning the hull:

Before wet sanding or compounding can begin you should thoroughly clean the hull. For this process, you'll need a cheap rain suit, duck tape, rubber gloves, and some ON & OFF, On & OFF Gel or FSR gel (basically acid) and you'll ultimately want a full face respirator rated for acids.. Duck tape where the gloves meet the raincoat so you don't get acid on your skin while reaching over-head, preferably DO NOT reach overhead but rather do it from a platform or ladder to wash the boat. I find using On & Off, and a car wash brush, as effective, but far quicker, than applying FSR gel, and they are both made of the same basic components (acids). Be careful these ARE acid-based products!

Buy a roll or sheet of plastic and rip it with a razor knife into 12-inch wide lengths. Tape this to your dry hull surface at the water line using 3M green film tape (which seems to work) at the top but let it hang on the bottom as a "drip edge" skirt. You do this so the acid in the ON & OFF does not eat the copper bottom paint and can drip on the ground vs. the bottom paint. Wash and rinse quickly a small area at a time and do this preferably before you bottom paint just in case. On & Off is basically FSR without the gel. However, you can wash much faster with ON & OFF than you can with FSR. The ON & OFF will bring back the white of the hull by removing the metals or tannins. Tannins are that rusty orange discoloration you get from the ocean over time that attaches to the gelcoat. You'll be amazed at the difference in the color of your hull! Even hulls that don't look bad look amazing after a thorough washing with On & Off. This is a very good place to start before waxing if your boat is older than a few years. Be very careful not to get On & Off or FSR on aluminum rub rails, metals, stanchions, cleats etc. because it will pit them. Only apply FSR or On & Off to a gelcoat hull! Allow about 20 minutes for the skirt set up and 1/2 hour for washing the hull.

Removing the oxidation:

To do it right you must first remove all the oxidation. This will be achieved either by wet sanding, starting with P600 grit, if really bad, and working up to P1000 grit plus. Wet sanding by novices should always be done by hand. Unless you're a seasoned body shop professional do not use a machine to speed up the wet sanding process. While gelcoat is very thick & most hulls can be wet sanded & compounded numerous times, compared to Linear Polyurethanes such as AwlGrip or Imron, a novice with an electric or air sander can chew through and ruin the gelcoat quickly if not fully experienced. Doing this by hand, and keeping the paper rinsed and wet is the key to getting a good result. One trick is to add a little dish detergent to the water bucket as this lubes the paper and helps rinse the gelcoat chalk off when you dip the paper. I like to use a soft damp kitchen sponge as my backing block and it matches the hull contours nicely.

Compounding:

If the hull oxidation is minimal a good heavy-duty rubbing compound, such as 3M Heavy Duty or Presta Gelcoat Compound and a 3M compounding grade wool pad #05711 or Presta black pad can and should be the starting point. You'll know quickly after testing a spot with the compound if you'll need to wet sand. If you need to spend more than 2-3 minutes on a 2X2 area your using the wrong machine, compound, pad, or a combination of the three or you need to start at wet sanding. I can not stress enough the importance of using a compounding grade pad with a compound and a polishing grade pad with a polish. While it is fine to use a polish-grade pad with a medium compound like Presta Ultra Cutting Creme you don't want to use a heavy-duty pad with a polish or you won't get the desired result.

When compounding do keep in mind that a compound is like liquid wet sandpaper. Therefore, you should keep your pad damp at all times. I use a misting bottle filled with water for this but don't overdo it. If you are getting lots of small dot "sling" the pad is to wet. If you are a novice I do not advise attempting to use the buffer to "dry buff" or to "buff off" compounds or polishes. Running the pad dry, as in buffing until the compound is off the hull, is something best left for PROFESSIONALS or until you have the confidence and skill to go there. You can very easily damage your hull if you are not experienced at "dry" buffing. I've seen burned and permanently discolored gelcoat from novices attempting this. This is part of the reason they put Silicone in compounds and it's because most people don't understand the concept of how to use a buffer.

As a beginner, your buffer should be considered just that a buffer and not a "remover". Work a 2-foot by 2-foot area first going at a slow speed of 600 then slowly up to 1000 for 30-45 seconds then turn the dial up to 2k+ but below 3k and stop before it is dry. Next, wipe the residue off while it's still in the "damp haze" mode. Don't let it dry or it will be a bear to remove unless you wet it again. This will show you how much more you need to do or if you can move to the next 2X2 area. ALWAYS, ALWAYS keep the pad and machine moving!!!

Apply compound in a criss-cross, not a circle (note the mist bottle of water):

Edging the pad is for pro's or after you get comfortable with the process & machine !!

Right Way - keep it FLAT..


After compounding phase only using Presta Ultra Cutting Creme (no sanding was done here 30 year old gelcoat):

Pre-compounding Phase:


The polishing phase:

This is perhaps the most important because it gives that deep wet look to the hull even before you wax it. Skipping the very important polishing phase, and using an aggressive compound only, will leave very small, barely visible, scratches or "swirl marks" in the gel coat that will absorb more UV light. It may look very shiny after this step but the sun & UV see the swirls. These micro ridges and valleys or micro scratches, if you will, actually create a more exposed surface area, and thus oxidize the hull more rapidly. This is why you should polish the hull as the second phase or third phase depending on your level of oxidation.

So phase 1 is wet sand (if needed), phase 2 compound, phase three polish.

Contrary to popular myths & beliefs you should not be dependent on the wax for the shine of your hull. The wax is a protection layer only and a final sealer to keep the elements at bay and to minimize pollution and dirt from binding to the hull. Unfortunately, most DIYer's actually skip the polishing step thinking compounding is polishing. It's not. Once the hull is polished I do a phase called glazing step (overkill for most unless you're totally OCD) and then two coats of Collinite Fleet Wax. Most often one coat will suffice but for a really long-lasting finish, two coats are best. I normally do three at the waterline because this is where the wax sees the most abuse.

The same techniques apply to polishing as do compounding.

After polishing but before wax:


Glazing Phase (optional):

The fourth step, or glazing phase, would be considered overkill by many but this is the step where you literally make the hull surface as smooth as glass removing any traces of "swirl marks". By using products like Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover or Presta Chroma you eliminate micro scratches and slow the oxidizing by creating even less surface area for the sun's UV rays to degrade.

Don't worry though, if you stop at 3M Finesse It II you're 90% of the way there and this level of polish is plenty good for most boaters and will last a long time if done right and with patience.

Understanding Grit Levels:

What is grit level? If you were to rate various products on a 1-10 scale of grit (1 being least aggressive & 10 being most) wet sanding at P600 would be a 10 or most aggressive, compounding with a heavy-duty compound would be a 6-7, Finesse It a 3-4.5, #9 or Presta Chroma a 1-3 and wax a Zero.

Using the above scale as a guide you can see why you would not want to jump the compounding phase to a wax. Stopping at the compounding phase will leave swirl marks or micro scratches, which creates more surface area, to absorb UV rays. Stopping at the Finesse It phase will leave considerably less aggressive swirl marks but they will still be there all be it very, very minimally. Going all the way to a glazing phase will leave virtually zero swirls and prolong the time between oxidation's re-appearance. Even deep scratches can be minimized by feathering the edges. The sharp edges of a scratch are what make it highly visible. Rounding off these edges through compounding and polishing greatly minimizes the visibility while still preserving the surrounding gelcoat thickness...

One-Step Products / Liquids:
Don't be fooled by the "easy application liquid carnauba waxes" I've yet to find one that lasts and I've tried many of them! Trust me I did this for a living when I was younger and no one wants to wax a mega yacht every three months! I used to work on and detail "shiny boats" (mega yachts) and found Collinite Fleet Wax #885 paste version to be the longest lasting and hardest of the Carnuba's. Practical Sailor, not once, but twice now has backed up my own personal finding crowning Collinite #885 the king of paste waxes. There are others but Collinte is truly a great product.

One way to test if your wax will pass the test of time is to watch your waterline. If it becomes yellow the wax is dead and gone! With Collinite #885 you can get 6-8 full months without any yellowing at the waterline. No other wax I've tried has even come close.

There are literally hundreds of waxes out there and any one of them is better than none. I only recommend the above waxes because I have used them and found them to be very durable. I have also used many of the "marine" waxes including some of the "Teflon" based products, but again, none worked as well as the old-school paste Carnuba's.

More Process Tips:
When buffing & waxing a boat, out of the water, a good trick is to cover the bottom paint with at least 2" blue tape so you don't accidentally buff and wax the bottom paint. It's important to tape neatly so you get wax as close to the bottom paint as you can without actually getting it on the bottom paint. I usually do a 3/4-inch width tape followed by a 2-inch width giving me plenty of tape to save my buffing pads. Fouling of your buffing pad, with bottom paint, is the end of that pad until you can wash it in a commercial washing machine. To keep "sling", what happens when you use a rotary buffer, and it throws white dots of compound up onto your deck, off the decks, I bring old cardboard boxes to the boat yard. Lay them on the deck directly above the area you're working protruding about 12" over the edge of the deck. The cardboard overhang will catch any "sling" on the way up and it will save you huge amounts of time cleaning white dots off the surface of your deck!

Blue Tape:


Tips for keeping it clean:

1) With two coats of a paste Carnuba on the hull I only wash the boat with IMAR boat wash or Awlwash the soap made to wash Awlgrip. These products are great and also safe, and IMAR is also approved & safe for washing Strataglass dodger windows. The reason I use IMAR Boat Wash is that it's the only product I've found that cleans well but does not prematurely break down the wax. With IMAR I'm still beading after 7-8 months. Avoid the use of any soap with a built-in wax or one that's a heavy detergent-based product and by all means do not use Joy, Palmolive or dishwashing detergents as they eat waxes for lunch. You can order IMAR products from Defender or directly from the IMAR website although Defender is cheaper. Using this and a very soft car wash brush on a stick works well and does not ruin your wax job.

Tips for applying the wax:

3) Do I apply the wax by hand? Yes! Please don't apply or remove the wax phase with the buffer. I use the 4-inch round Meguiars foam applicators you can buy at an auto parts store and a spray/mist bottle of water like you use for ironing. The spray bottle is the secret trick for applying a true Carnuba wax. Simply mist the hull and liberally apply the wax. Wait for it to haze over to about 80-90% of dry and buff by hand with a Micro Fiber rag. Avoid terry cloth as microfibers work many times better. Once you use a Micro Fiber detailing cloth for waxing you'll wonder how you ever survived without one. The spray of water helps it attach and buff out to a harder, shinier easier to wipe off finish. It's sort of like when you get your shoes polished and the guy hits them with a mist bottle and then buffs the shine up. This trick does not work with most of the polymer/Carnuba blends like the 3M paste but it's like gold with the Collinite Carnuba..

Another trick is not to wax a large area! I'll do a two to three-foot wide swath from toe rail to waterline marking where you are waxing at the toe rail with a piece of blue tape. Also leave a little residue on the leading edge so you'll know exactly where to start. You'll wipe this leading edge when finished with the next swath leaving another leading edge to go off of. It moves along much faster than it sounds.

Over the years I have experimented at length with using my buffer to remove the wax but I find the frictional heat is bad for it and it does not shine as well or last as long as a good hand application and hand wipe. Buffing it off by hand gives it a harder shell because it's cooler and does not re-melt the curing wax with the friction of a buffer. On my 36 footer, I use only four Micro's where it used to take about a dozen terry cloth rags. I buy my Micro Fiber rags at Sam's Club or Wal*Mart. I used to buy them from Griot's Garage when they were the only ones who had them and they were HUGE money! Try and find the best quality Micro*Fiber you can it will make a difference. Sometimes the quality of the Sam's Club Micro's is poor so I go to Wal*Mart or an auto-parts store.

On concourse quality show cars pure carnauba wax is applied with bare, clean fingers & a mist of water and then removed with microfiber rags. This is how I waxed cars growing up. Bare fingers on a 36-footer are far too time-consuming but I have actually done it.;)

Tips for decks:

4) I personally compound and buff the smooth but generally not the non-skid. I don't wax the decks with anything but Woody Wax but I don't find that it actually protects all that much so it may be a wasted step.

One insider secret is that less distortion in the reflection shows a very good polish/glaze with virtually no swirl marks. If the items in a reflection, such as a ladder, seem distorted the polishing is not up to par. You can also hold a ruler at 90 degrees to the surface and see how far you can read it. The further you can read the numbers the smoother the surface. Here I used my watch.


Info on pads, compounds and rags:

As for maintaining the wool buffing pads, I wash them alone on COLD with Woolite in a home front load washing machine. Sometimes it may take two cycles to get them clean. Please do not dry them in a dryer and don't wash them on hot. They are wool and a hot wash or dry will literally change the pad grade. A polish grade pad can become a compound pad fairly quickly so wash cold and then air dry. I rarely have to clean a pad, during a buffing project, unless I'm doing a boat that is badly oxidized. Use slow speeds and light pressure to prevent compound burning. You can also use a mist bottle of water, very sparingly, to give a little moisture to the hull and lube the pad. This however will create more sling so you're best to go slow and keep the compound wetter. The secret is to keep the pad "damp" if it dries, it burns, and you'll need a "spur wheel" or spigot wash to field clean it. Spurs are available at an autobody supply shop or auto parts store but I really, really dislike them and find there is not much need for one at all.

A trick I use for a "field clean" of the pads is to remove the pad from the buffer and rinse it under a boatyard spigot scrubbing it with my fingers until it's clean or in a 5-gallon bucket filled about 1/3 with fresh clean water. I then re-install the pad on the buffer and spin it at the buffer's highest speed inside a 5-gallon bucket to catch the sling. Spin it until no more water spins off on the inside of the bucket. Once done with that use a towel to get it as close to dry as possible. This is the method I use as I feel it's much more thorough than a spur and does not make your pad black from metallic residue. With water-based compounds a "field clean" is very easy!!

Field Clean - Wash:


Field Clean - Spin Dry:


Cautions On Cheap Products & Pad Care

A word of caution about "cheap" compounds and polishes that may contain silicone or wax or oils. These silicones or oils will not easily wash out or come, clean of the pads and will eventually ruin them. Use water-based 3M, Presta Products or similar but carefully read the labels to make sure it says, "does not contain silicone". If a product says "paintable" or "body shop safe" it most likely does not contain silicone.

As for the microfiber, rags do not use any sort of fabric softener it will ruin the rags. You can wash them on warm or hot though...

Compound / Polish products I use:

My favorites:

Presta Products - Gelcoat Compound
= Heavy compound but finishes with a deep shine
Presta Products - Ultra Cutting Creme = Starts medium/heavy but diminishes & finishes comparable to Finesse It II
Presta Products - Chroma = Glaze

If your boat is not too badly oxidized Ultra Cutting Creme with a 3M #05713 pad can get you there in just one step plus the wax..! This is my absolute favorite product for compounding / polishing.

Others:

3M Marine Super Rubbing Compound
3M Finesse It - Polish
Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover - Fine polish that makes a great gelcoat glaze

Wax I use:

Collinite #885 Fleet Wax - Paste Version (Contains less than 2% silicone most of its competitors contain 30% or more silicone)

I cut my teeth on concourse quality cars like this. My father would have been pretty unhappy with me if I toasted a 25-30k paint job.. Boats are easy compared to cars like this.;)



EDIT:

This photo was sent to me by forum member RBone who read this and previously had little experience. YES, it CAN be done..;)
 
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#105 ·
Cutting pads come in many different grades.Generally,lambs wool is the coursest(?)Then there are different degrees in foam.I'd stick to a wool pad for a boat.Cutting by hand? argh! been there,done that.NO MORE! very hard work.In tight places on deck ,,,yeah i'd have to go by hand,My disc is 7" diametre,you can get 4".Apply compounding cream to hull."smear" with pad.Work a small area at the time,work it till you get a good shine and cutters turn to fine powder.move on to new area.keep going till all hull finished. wipe off with a clean rag.Apply polish of choice.Its not rocket science.Lot easier than a car.
 
#106 ·
Helliconia54,

Thank you for the reply. The vast majority of our decks (Beneteau 42CC) are non-skid. I'm hoping the work on the smooth gelcoat portion won't be too hard. We will definitely use a buffer on the hull when we get to that.

Just started the re-conditioning process today. We only did one small section of non-skid, but it turned out great! Rinsed, boat soap, FSR, Woody Wax, dried.....I still can't believe how white it is. Here in Hawaii, red dirt is our constant battle.

I'll get some wool pads for the rubbing compound for the smooth parts. Thank you for the advice.
 
#107 ·
Great Post - but, Questions

Thanks for such a fine post.

Questions:

I have a small (15') Montgomery in very good shape (no chalking, etc.), so I intend to ramp up to do this exercise beginning with the 3M Finesse-It step, followed by 2 Collinite #885 wax coats.

However, I only own an old B&D #9531 polisher. It has only two speeds (2100 & 6600). I have also heard horror stories of novices (that's me!) burning their finish with the rotary polishers (like the Makita).

So, would a random-orbital unit work for a novice like me? I love everything I see on the Makita 9227C, but the price and my fears give me pause.

Any suggestions, recommendations are highly welcomed and appreciated.

Fr. Jeff+
 
#108 ·
As a novice, I followed MS's instructions to the letter. Bought an appropriate DeWalt grinder/polisher, so I'd have the proper speed. Prior to doing a 31 foot boat that badly needed it, ALL my previous attempts at bringing a shine to any of my old boats failed miserably.

I started with wet sanding, followed by 3m compound, followed by Finesse It. Ended up with topsides that LOOKED LIKE NEW. And I'd never used anything but a random orbital polisher before. I had no problems using a proper grinder polisher.

Bottom line: Don't be cuttin' corners. You wanna get done and wonder why it doesn't look right?

By the way, I don't envy you polishing your faux-lapstrake topsides, but at least you're only dealing with 15 feet. Another bonus for you is that everything you need to polish can be done with you standing on terra firma. A 31 with a fixed keel puts you up high on a big stepladder. All in all, your job will be a piece of cake. p.s......I wonder if you'd be better off using 4" pads on your lapstrake planks. Seems like much of a 7" would be just slinging your expensive compound into the air.
 
#109 ·
Thanks - Good Advice

I believe you are right. I'll bite the bullet and get myself a new Makita or DeWalt and have no excuses.
I was giving thought to the lapstrake and I like the idea of the smaller wheel/pads.

Yup, we'll do the whole thing from the floor while she's on the trailer. No bottom paint either, so I'll be laying on my back for most of that part!

My gratitude!
 
#110 ·
Another Question

Siamese or any other viewer,

With my hull having the faux 4" lapstrake moulded in the fiberglass, I will only be able to run the Makita with horizontal movements. Vertical pattern would be across the lapstrake. I will also have to use smaller pads (4" +/-).

Will this work, or will it leave unsightly marks by only moving back and forth horizontally?

Thanks......
 
#111 · (Edited)
I've never done a lapstraker, but I'm not seeing a problem. If there was to be any unevenness, I'd think it might occur at some of the edges of your "planks", but that's not to say I'd anticipate any problems. I'm thinkin' you're going to have one shiny boat.

Start doing a few pushups now :laugher if you're going to be working on your back. Standing on a stepladder and holding up a big grinder in front of you for hours is tiring. Holding it straight up is bound to be even more fun. I could see myself skimping a little below the waterline....heck, the fish don't care.

If you could flip the boat....woo hoo.

Hey....I just reread your post, and noticed that you're starting with the Finesse-it. If your gel coat is currently close to fresh out of the mold shiny, that's a good way to go. If it's getting a little dull and oxidized, definitely do the compounding. I used the 3M on mine, and it was fine, but I think next time I'm going with the Presta. I understand that you're concerned about burning it. Pity if that concern kept you from getting gloss after a lot of work. You could always practice on the keel.
 
#112 ·
First Step

My "new" boat is 30 years old, but it was stored in a TX polebarn for 16 years. So, not fresh from the mold, but very, very good!

But I have decided to compound. Will use all Presta products except wax. That will be the Collinite #885.

Will start push ups and other arm exercises tomorrow. :)

Jeff
 
#113 ·
I have been detailing cars now for over 18 yrs.A good half of that with a twin speed sander/polisher (Ryobi) It is not the tool you use but how you use it.I use the slowest of the two speeds.Practice on something first.It takes a lot of work to burn thru.If you keep the buff moving,do not let it stay too long in one spot ,you will have no problem.If you hold pad flat to surface,it may jump around a little,due to friction.Lift one edge a little.By the way using the buff and cutters is a good way to remove scratches from perspex windows too.
 
#114 ·
30 years old with 16 in storage....yup, you wanna compound it. You hear a lot of concern with regard to compounding away the gelcoat from compounding too often. Every 30 years is probably not a problem! 6, 8, 10 years down the road maybe you'll do it again, or just Finesse above the waterline in a few years.

Let us know how it goes.
 
#115 ·
New Buffer/Polisher

Just bought the Makita 9227C.

Now, safe up some buck$$ for backer plates, pads, Presta Strata Ultra Cutting Cream Light, Presta Chroma and Collinite #885 and the work shall begin.

Bringing the boat home to MI from NC on the 25th. She should look good by the first launch!
 
#116 ·
Just bought the Makita 9227C.

Now, safe up some buck$$ for backer plates, pads, Presta Strata Ultra Cutting Cream Light, Presta Chroma and Collinite #885 and the work shall begin.

Bringing the boat home to MI from NC on the 25th. She should look good by the first launch!
GO SLOW with lapstrake.. The "over hangs" and "edges" can create hot spots on the pad edges... Can easily be done but requires more patience...
 
#118 ·
Maine Sail

Thanks for the great tip!

I am going to go very slow as I have never had a "real" buffer polisher in my hands before and I sure do not want to mess up an already pretty boat/hull.

When you say "slow", I presume you are speaking primarily about the RPM's, correct? I'll likely practice a bit on my old pick up truck tail gate and the keel........
Yes RPM.. You want to watch the over hang temps when buffing the strake below it. The edge of the pad can create hot spots if going at to fast an RPM..
 
#119 ·
Slow and Easy, and......

Yes RPM.. You want to watch the over hang temps when buffing the strake below it. The edge of the pad can create hot spots if going at to fast an RPM..
Thanks, that's what I thought you meant.

Per another tipster here, I will also likely use smaller backing plate and pads on the lapstrake areas. There are 2 3/4" plates that use 4" pads and a 3 3/4" plate that uses 4" or 5" pads from Lake Country. The tipster thought that the smaller pads would have less throw. Either of these will work on the Makita (per AutoGeek.net).

My only concern is that my motion will be nearly all horizontal (not much room on the lapstrake to do any vertical motion).

Thoughts?

And, my gratitude again!
 
#120 ·
Yeah, you're restricted to horizontal motion. There's simply no way around that. But...we're talking about a tool that travels in a circle, so in effect, a given square inch is being hit from a lot of different directions. As opposed to the motion of belt sander which travels in a straight line.

Also, you're not going at it with 80 grit. The compound is going to leave a shiny surface. It's gonna work.
 
#121 ·
* Turtle Wax rubbing compound is an excellent good, better alternatives always exist everywhere.
* It Can be used to "rub out" the car with lots of effort.
* One will not need to go to this level and type of effort.
* Starting with the use of clay bar and recommended paste wax products from other companies will go far to making one a happy car owner, with far less efforts and better end results!
 
#122 ·
I have some gouges to fix in my hull but I also have just bought all the supplies mentioned in your list.

Is it a better idea to do the compounding on the entire hull before doing my fixes so I can see the true color I want to match with gel coat? Then after the repair re-compound the surrounding area and then proceed with polishing and waxing everything?
 
#123 ·
Which First?

All of my teak is stripped and sanded - ready for Cetol Natural Teak.

My hull and deck is also ready for the full blown compound/polish/wax process outlined here. All Presta and Collinite on hand.

Which should I do first for best results - teak finish or hull and deck???
 
#124 ·
Unbelievable!!

I'm geeked!

Just finished Step #1 : Makita 9227C with Presta Ultra Cutting Cream Light compounding the hull.

This stuff and result is better than I even thought after reading this great post.

My hull just glistens!! Can't believe the difference (and this thing was not oxidized at all). I can hardly wait (well, when arms recover) to do the Presta Swirl Remover, Presta Chroma 1500 Polish and the Collinte wax.

This old Monty 15 gal (#176) is going to look like new!!
 

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#125 · (Edited)
Here is what I came up with on a 1975 oday with an unknown history on topside maintenance.

I'm quite pleased with the results but looking back at MaineSail's photos they don't really compare :) Very shiney when shot form the back and at an angle. Not too much straight on like the watch test. My boat is certainly older but I think I didn't compound quite enough. I pretty much put on what I thought to be reasonable amount of compound (similar to the photo MaineSail provided on the buffing pad) and buffed until it started to go away, then I cleaned up that area and moved on. It is very likely I should have been gauging something and deciding if an area was done before moving on, but didn't really know what I was looking for.

Photo is attached.

I used the buffer and all of the Presta products recommended by MaineSail, thanks! :)

Before:


After:
 

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#126 · (Edited)
I had a similar experience with a 1989 boat - first pass was a big improvement but still didn't meet expectations.

Went to auto body supply store (not Advance, not AutoZone) and purchased 1200 and 1500 grit wet sandpaper. After sanding, started over with compound, then polish, then glaze, then two coats of Collinite paste (and you can definitely see the difference between wax coat #1 and #2.)

Are you using a different grade pad for each product? That also makes a noticeable difference.

Maybe focus on a 3' section until you achieve desired results.

Be patient and perstistent.

Good luck!

 
#129 ·
I had a similar experience with a 1989 boat - first pass was a big improvement but still didn't meet expectations.

Went to auto body supply store (not Advance, not AutoZone) and purchased 1200 and 1500 grit wet sandpaper. After sanding, started over with compound, then polish, then glaze, then two coats of Collinite paste (and you can definitely see the difference between wax coat #1 and #2.)

Are you using a different grade pad for each product? That also makes a noticeable difference.

Maybe focus on a 3' section until you achieve desired results.

Be patient and perstistent.

Good luck!
I did wet sand the blue stripe which had a lot more oxidation. I hit with some 600 then 800, 1000, 2000 wet. Really helped but the white is harder to work with because the oxidation wasn't as easy to spot.

With the compounding I didn't really know what I was looking for in terms of completeness. I guess if I was paying more attention to the photos I would have compounded more heavily until I had more of a mirror shine like MaineSail, but I kept thinking the mirror would come in later steps (which it mostly did).

I was just really worried that I wasn't noticing how much it was buffing away and suddenly I'd have a 2' hole in the gel coat.
 
#127 ·
I'm thrilled with what I have on the Monty with just the first coat of Collinite on the hull.
I am going to wait on coat two until I have the deck and cabin compounded, polished, glazed and one coat of Collinite thereupon. Then I'll do the entire boat with Collinite coat two.
I did wet sand a few spots which had some scratches and gouges from PO rafting incident. Not there anymore!
 
#128 ·
very satisfied user of this process. Started with 1000 grit wetsanding then followed the steps as outlined. Shoulders will never be the same! Very helpful to have great friends willing to co-labor.

As a benchmark, our 42' took about 6 weekends a few evenings, probably 50 manhours total time.

now it's on to the topsides....
 
#132 ·
MaineSail, thank you very much for this great information. Great work, clean and simple explanations, images… even I can understand how to make it  its publishing quality material… Thanks again.

Now……. Here's what I want to give a dazzling shine :)


She's a 1986 Nash 26 and hasn't been looked after since 2010. I have no idea how severe the oxidation is. And I also want to repaint the stripes with another color. (Dark blue) I have no idea if the stripes are awlgrip or something else.

Here's the sequence which I'm thinking to follow, based on MaineSail's suggestions,

1- Clean the hull with FSR or similar
2- Wet sand with 1000 grit
3- Apply rubbing compound
4- Re-paint the stripes (is sanding required after applying rubbing compound?)
5- Finesse It or similar
6- Wax
7- Apply signs (stickies)
8- Paint bottom

My questions are;
- Does the above sequence seem correct? If not what you would recommend?
- From this horrible picture, can you tell how severe is the oxidation (Hopefully I can post some close up pics by Monday)
- Is sanding required after applying rubbing compound? (for re-painting stripes)
- How can I figure out what kind of material the stripes painted with?
- Would that be OK If I take loooong breaks after completing each step (breaks up to one week). (Boat stays 80 Km away from my place and I can visit her max 2-3 times a week) In other words does it get oxidized again if I leave it for a week after I sand it?
- Is it ok to put sticky signs after waxing? If not when it should be done?
- What's the best way/material to remove previously painted (with enamel I guess) signs on the hull?

Many thanks in advance for your help,

Tafa
 
#133 ·
Here's the sequence which I'm thinking to follow, based on MaineSail's suggestions,

1- Clean the hull with FSR or similar
2- Wet sand with 1000 grit
3- Apply rubbing compound
4- Re-paint the stripes (is sanding required after applying rubbing compound?)
5- Finesse It or similar
6- Wax
7- Apply signs (stickies)
8- Paint bottom

My questions are;
- Does the above sequence seem correct? If not what you would recommend?
- From this horrible picture, can you tell how severe is the oxidation (Hopefully I can post some close up pics by Monday)
- Is sanding required after applying rubbing compound? (for re-painting stripes)
- How can I figure out what kind of material the stripes painted with?
- Would that be OK If I take loooong breaks after completing each step (breaks up to one week). (Boat stays 80 Km away from my place and I can visit her max 2-3 times a week) In other words does it get oxidized again if I leave it for a week after I sand it?
- Is it ok to put sticky signs after waxing? If not when it should be done?
- What's the best way/material to remove previously painted (with enamel I guess) signs on the hull?

Many thanks in advance for your help,

Tafa
Take my advice with a grain of salt because I knew nothing before starting with MaineSail's guide.

1. I'm not sure about you needing FSR. I paid $19 for a small bottle of On & Off from WM and it was a total waste. I'd put in on the hull as directed, wait 60 seconds, then rinse it off, and I'd have dirt left over that could be wiped with a finger. If I then used a towel to wipe it, it would be clean, but the towel functioned the same way without the expensive On & Off. I think that stuff is probably intended for big rust stains etc. that would resist other cleaners. What I ended up doing was just using some Simple Green and a rag to clean the hull before starting with the compounding.

4. I'm not sure how things change when you involve painting. I was wanting to change the colors of my stripes too but I decided against the added complication.

6 & 7. I think it would make more sense to apply the decal and then wax. That way the vinyl is sticking to the clean hull instead of a temporary surfacing.
 
#134 ·
I had similar thoughts about the On & Off, Maine89. Next time, I'll probably go Simple Green or the like.

But I have to say, this is the first year I followed MaineSail's directions close to 100%--Makita polisher, Presta products, recommend 3m pads, microfiber cloths, Fleetwax--and I was very pleased with the results on my 25-yr-old Pearson. I hope to not have to compound next time, and just go with the Presta Cutting Creme. Some of my observations:

* Working that Makita while standing on a ladder is hard! I had to laugh at MS's advice to keep the pad moving. How could I not!? The thing owned me until I got better at it. Exhausting. I found that the moistness of the compound was crucial to making sure the Makita didn't fling me aside like a pesky afterthought.

* Love those Presta products! Being water soluble means water clean up. No prob getting the wool pads clean.

* Oddly enough, I got my best results with the compound by polishing it until it was mostly gone. I know this is contra MS's instructions, but it seemed to work. I started doing this to save my arms from rubbing off the compound (hoping to live to fight another day), but then saw a better finish.

* Speed does matter. For a while I wasn't ramping up the speed as directed and wasn't getting the results. It was a breezy dry day and my stuff was just drying so fast, I couldn't get up to speed before it was too late. Once I got the pad damp enough with the sprayer--close to the point of flinging (and occasionally over it!)--I finally finished up with a high enough speed to get it smooth.

* The Fleetwax paste went on, and more importantly, off, easier than their liquid I thought. Maybe this was because the surface was smoother this time?

Anyway, thanks for the awesome tutorial, MaineSail!

Tom
 
#135 · (Edited)
I had similar thoughts about the On & Off, Maine89. Next time, I'll probably go Simple Green or the like.

But I have to say, this is the first year I followed MaineSail's directions close to 100%--Makita polisher, Presta products, recommend 3m pads, microfiber cloths, Fleetwax--and I was very pleased with the results on my 25-yr-old Pearson. I hope to not have to compound next time, and just go with the Presta Cutting Creme. Some of my observations:

* Working that Makita while standing on a ladder is hard! I had to laugh at MS's advice to keep the pad moving. How could I not!? The thing owned me until I got better at it. Exhausting. I found that the moistness of the compound was crucial to making sure the Makita didn't fling me aside like a pesky afterthought.

* Love those Presta products! Being water soluble means water clean up. No prob getting the wool pads clean.

* Oddly enough, I got my best results with the compound by polishing it until it was mostly gone. I know this is contra MS's instructions, but it seemed to work. I started doing this to save my arms from rubbing off the compound (hoping to live to fight another day), but then saw a better finish.

* Speed does matter. For a while I wasn't ramping up the speed as directed and wasn't getting the results. It was a breezy dry day and my stuff was just drying so fast, I couldn't get up to speed before it was too late. Once I got the pad damp enough with the sprayer--close to the point of flinging (and occasionally over it!)--I finally finished up with a high enough speed to get it smooth.

* The Fleetwax paste went on, and more importantly, off, easier than their liquid I thought. Maybe this was because the surface was smoother this time?

Anyway, thanks for the awesome tutorial, MaineSail!

Tom
I too went with the exact model of everything he suggested just so I would be the only variable (which is variable enough trust me...)

Yes the buffer was quite formidable. I know he said to keep it flat but I found keeping it at a slight angle gave me a lot more control.

I too worked the material until it was mostly gone, but that is because I wasn't sure when I was done. I think at the time my mind figured if the compound, creme or polish was mostly gone, it must have done what it needed to do. But really I should have given it a closer look.

I'm really not sure if I attained 30% or 70% of the results of someone who knew what they were doing, but it was shinier than when I started, that is for certain :) And I didn't eat through all the gel coat, which was a concern keeping me from being too aggressive with the compounding. I suppose you can be (and probably should be) more aggressive with the creme and polish since you can't really do much damage at the higher grit level but even on a 27 foot boat I was fighting the clock. It's a 140 mile round-trip to get to the boat and the yard will lock me in at 5pm so I was rushing on the second day (hour 8-16) to get done.

PS: Has anyone used the Mikita polisher/sander for sanding? How does it compare to orbital or random orbital sanders? I'm needing a sander and hoping I can use this $180 investment as one as well, instead of another $80 for a modest sander.
 
#137 ·
I'm lining up to buy exactly what specified and will give it a go! Admittedly on a powerboat...
My question is this, I will be replacing the boat name and license numbers this year. My thought it I should remove them before I compound, but I don't know when I should put the new ones on? I may not even have the new ones until after I wax but I have a feeling that putting stickers on wax is not a good idea.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Steve.
 
#139 ·
You should remove them. The gelcoat under the vinyl will not match the rest and compounding is a good way to help blend it a little. If you leave the decals on you will likely need to hit that area again.

If you need to put the vinyl on after a waxing you can use acetone, denatured alcohol, xylol etc to get it off and cleaned. Some people prefer certain types but those are common.
 
#138 ·
My sequence was:

remove old letters
goo gone to remove any traces of old adhesive
wet sand per procedure
repeat goo gone when you find trace amounts of old adhesive
continue with procedure through to polishing step
apply new letters
wax

Very satisfied with the results. Only slightest trace of old letters visible at certain angles. I suspect that's due to the old letters being there for a lot of years and the uneven weathering of the gelcoat underneath.
 
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