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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Lead 'boot' - yes/no?
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Thread: Lead 'boot' - yes/no? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-09-2012 10:58 PM
SlowButSteady
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelmarRey View Post
The OP said nothing about cutting off any keel. He wants to add to the bottom.

It's funny how stuff Gets misread. It's just the link I provided gives that option, but not necessary.

As far as leaks, once it's bolted on, one can just fair-in and FG/epoxy over the new bulb just like it were part of the original keel. Simple as that!
I realize that the OP was about just adding to the existing keel. I was commenting on the application specified in the MarsKeel site.
03-09-2012 10:26 PM
souljour2000
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

I like my cutaway forefoot keel on my old '66 C-29 Columbia more every day...My girl's 2 to 1 disp.to ballast ratio makes up for alot of what she don't have in room (8' beam) and speed (6.36 kts) but at least I know if I get slapped down by an errant T-storm outflow with canvas up that I am probably going to bounce back into the game...and for the record..I would say add the lead...might be a bit more ungainly in performance possibly as it is not factored into the original architect's design but it probably gets her back on her feet more quickly in a knockdown at least..that's my take but differnt strokes for differnt folks...I'm a coastal cruiser..a racer may tell you something else..
03-09-2012 09:33 PM
DelmarRey
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
Since these guys are cutting off part of the keel, in preparation to adding a bulb, the resultant is likely to provide less lift. Remember, the keel of the boat provides both a righting moment and fluid dynamic lift, with the latter giving the boat its pointing ability. Reduce the foil by 15 or 20 percent, an you are likely to reduce the lift provided by the keel by 15 or 20 percent. Sure, the boat might have a similar, or even greater, righting moment as it did before the "surgery". however, it's also likely to loose some pointing ability unless the keel is somehow further modified (which is probably much more difficult).
The OP said nothing about cutting off any keel. He wants to add to the bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by micheck
One additional question and then I will go in a corner and think!

I am 'considering' adding a lead 'boot' to the bottom of my fin keel; this would serve as a sacrificial element protecting my fiberglass keel with internal balast and would provide additional righting moment that would help 'stand up' the boat. I am looking at an additional 500# on a 12000# sailboat with a current ballast of 4000#.

I have, however, read that standing a boat up with additional balast is a good thing in strong winds, it is detrimental to the performance in light winds. I'm confused - I thought that standing up a sailboat was a good idea. Good/bad - Yes/No - Why?
It's funny how stuff Gets misread. It's just the link I provided gives that option, but not necessary.

As far as leaks, once it's bolted on, one can just fair-in and FG/epoxy over the new bulb just like it were part of the original keel. Simple as that!
03-09-2012 04:03 PM
SlowButSteady
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelmarRey View Post
I've always thought they were called bulbs >>> MarsKeel Technology Keel Draft Reductions

And you can get them custom made to fit your keel.

The next question is; can your mast and rigging take the extra stress (COE/COR). It's a good thing you don't have keel bolts.
Since these guys are cutting off part of the keel, in preparation to adding a bulb, the resultant is likely to provide less lift. Remember, the keel of the boat provides both a righting moment and fluid dynamic lift, with the latter giving the boat its pointing ability. Reduce the foil by 15 or 20 percent, an you are likely to reduce the lift provided by the keel by 15 or 20 percent. Sure, the boat might have a similar, or even greater, righting moment as it did before the "surgery". however, it's also likely to loose some pointing ability unless the keel is somehow further modified (which is probably much more difficult).
03-09-2012 03:53 PM
rugosa
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

No matter what you decide, the execution is paramount.

I have sailed for 4 years on an '85 C & C 32, originally built with the standard fin keel. One of the two previous owners reduced the draft to the designed optional centerboard draft and installed a bulb. Not sure, but it may have been installed at the yard I worked at in the '80s. While the bulb dealt with the draft target there were two negative changes -

1) the boat exhibits considerable weatherhelm upwind with winds over about 12-15 knots resulting in difficult steering, regardless of any tuning changes, although reefing the main does help. We have shifted weight, filled tanks, emptied tanks, with little result. When we are heading upwind we try to cram as much crew weight as possible aft. The conclusion is that when the draft was reduced water flow to the rudder changed. When observing the same model with factory installed centerboard the keel profile runs further aft. The rudder is the same on each option. Of course, none of us are engineers or designers and the only advise we are getting is 'buy a new keel'. The Mars website has great and thorough installation instructions, that definitely should be followed. In the long run this installation is questionable and my feeling is (from working in a number of yards for 22 years) that the bulb installation was likely a yard manager stepping back and telling the staff "ok, put it there" (yes that does happen).

2) the owner now has an anomoly and will eventually be looking for a buyer that wants this arrangement or does not have a clue about it's uniqueness. Regardless, the resale value is likely tarnished compared to others that are as originally built.

So, my advise is think twice about what you are considering, get thorough professional advice, weigh the immediate and future costs. Your original question was about protecting your encapsulated ballast. The reality is everybody runs aground sooner or later, often because we are not always where we think we are. Hopefully your boat was built tough enough to withstand the occassional bump or grounding, depending on the bottom material of course, and the big risk is mostly cosmetic.
03-08-2012 07:27 PM
DelmarRey
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

I've always thought they were called bulbs >>> MarsKeel Technology Keel Draft Reductions

And you can get them custom made to fit your keel.

The next question is; can your mast and rigging take the extra stress (COE/COR). It's a good thing you don't have keel bolts.
03-08-2012 06:14 PM
SlowButSteady
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Hey... I am NOT a duffer, I am a curmudgeonly geezer.
That's odd. I haven't seen you at any of the meetings.
03-08-2012 06:07 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowButSteady View Post
Well, a bunch of duffers with nothing else to do have spoken. But, I think you made the right decision.
Hey... I am NOT a duffer, I am a curmudgeonly geezer.
03-08-2012 06:05 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Ok who doesn't like the boat "tipping"? Hmmmm? It took 2 season for me to get used to it myself.
It took me 2 seasons to learn that having the lee rail 6 inches under wasn't fast. I preferred beating with a large heel angle from the first day I went sailing - it was (and is) better than any arcade ride I was ever on.
03-08-2012 01:52 PM
Barquito
Re: Lead 'boot' - yes/no?

500 lbs at the bottom of the keel (vs. 500 lb wine cellar in the bilge) would help a fair amount with ultimate stability, no?

If it is also intended as a reef-feeler appendage, it would be more useful if it extended up the leading edge of the keel a bit. Maybe a bit of 5200 to keep from having to drill through an encapsulated keel? (kidding of course)
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