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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?
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Topic Review (Newest First)
2 Weeks Ago 03:47 PM
bobperry
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Woodvet:
I'd have to say that 26 to 35' would not be the range I would pick for world cruising. I'd probably say 37' to 43' for a couple with the Valiant 40 being the ideal.

I think doing the lead ballast will be possible with your backyard methods. Getting the cement out will just be brute force and mindless labor.

I'll be around if you need any help. I'm happy to do what I can.
2 Weeks Ago 02:16 PM
Woodvet
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Thanks for the answer. I have put as much into the bow sprit as the boat cost me. With what I have spent, I might have bought a Perry design, no pocket pissing intended.
New 5/16 chain and SS windless. The sprit is made of SS pipe, not tubing and is at 2 feet. The materials were all salvage from a scrap yard. The welder next door and I will install today hopefully. I have radar and wind gen but I doubt I will install them in such a tiny boat.
A new Dragon fly, I com with AIS. But this is no big crossing kinda boat.
I see it as more a writer's cabin and cocktail boat.
People interviewed said 26' to 35' was the desired size of boat to sail around the world but it seems small for all that will need to happen on it.
I spent my early 12 years from a back pack and my wife is no stranger to hiking as a kiwi South Islander.
The equation is rough on what to use for a heating system though and I am designing one from a copper auto heater core and heat exchanger for when the engine is not used but having the tanks freeze or batts explode is serious in Alaska. My target area is SE but who knows.
I was used to the stability of a Farallone Clipper 38" but that design was not suitable for open sea. Her sister was lost down in the roaring forties a couple years back.
GRP is a vacation to wood but all materials have their draw backs.
My wife and I met in Ak so it seems a natural choice. Not fond of tropics myself. Anyway I guess I will try to play this out till she retires in a decade and then get a larger boat. The main thing is to stay in sailing because practice makes such a difference no matter how much you know.
I guess I will keep my admiration to myself about Perry. Thanks for the guessing. I was hoping to get advice from someone who actually did it. I'm lucky at finding lead and salvage work so I was not thinking of full price. Melting it in a claw foot tub the way an Aussie taught me. The increased storage for chain and tanks would certainly be welcome in off shore excursions. But we shall see.
2 Weeks Ago 10:28 AM
bobperry
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Woodvet:
Be careful. If you are too complimentary I will say you are "pissing in my pocket", It's an Australian expression. I too went to HS with another Bob Perry too. Whenever I'd get into trouble, imagine that, I'd tell my parents it was the "other" Bob Perry.

Jon is correct. The yawl rig is a very bad idea for the Rawson. The bowsprit is the way to go. And, don't be stingy with it. Make it 3' long. You want to move the center of pressure forward and there is no way you will create lee helm o the Rawson.

Ballast:
Think of it like this, I'll over simplify things so I can understand it:
The stability you feel from zero degrees of heel to about 17 degrees of heel is all "form stability". That is stability created by the movement of the TCB (transverse center of buoyancy) to leeward. The distance between the TCB and the CG of the boat is the "righting arm". Righting arm times displ equals Rm ( Righting Moment).

In order to gain significant stability by adding ballast or replacing cement with lead you are going to have to really lower that VCG. Changing from cement to lead allows this ans would help your stability ONCE YOU WERE PAST 17 DEGREES. It is not going to do squat for your initial stability. That's all form stability. Changing to lead will not help your wife's problem with "rolling".

Cement weighs around 150# per cu. ft. while lead weighs 700 # per cu. ft. This is huge. If you really wanted t improve your boat I'd go with the lead ballast and the bowsprit.

But changing the ballast will be expensive. I do not think it's worth the cost of the change. I certainly think the addition of the bowsprit would give you immediate gratification. I would do that now.

I'm just a normal old guy doing what normal old guys do. I had to put my 15 year old faithful companion FREDA to sleep last week. That was not fun.
2 Weeks Ago 01:20 AM
Woodvet
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Motel spelled backwards spells "let'om..."
Not sure but the yawl idea was to help steer the boat but I have a monitor for it. Increase the jib... OK.
The weather helm was blamed on the rudder not being far enough aft. If it was a yawl it might suit me to hang the rudder on the transom and glass the old rudder over. But I am here not to ask that so much as what amount of ballast could I reduce to if it were deeper on the keel. It's obvious that the height on the hull where the ballast is currently make her roll with little intention. My wife is prone to sea sickness and I know she's not going to be happy even inside SF bay. I bet it would make a huge difference moving the ballast down the keel. I would just like it to be said by an engineer and not my imagination. I believe in people like Perry. Which is no doubt the biggest living legend the world has in boat design. I've been on my boat putting in teak cabinets from a salvaged yacht from the 20s. Worked on it every minute and loved it. I find working on boats more fun than sailing them. Hope Mr Perry comes back. I kept thinking it might be someone who has the same name. After all, I went to high school with a Bob Perry in Eugene Or. There are a few out there. Wow... Bob Perry...
2 Weeks Ago 07:29 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

My favourite bit was when he changed hotels to get a cheaper rate, only to discover he had moved into the "No-Tell Motel".

The LaFitte guys sounded pretty fun too.
2 Weeks Ago 07:22 PM
miatapaul
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Forget the yawl idea - those boats are famous for weather helm. Add a bowsprit instead for more sail area.

And yes, that IS the famous Bob Perry.
This, a yawl rig will only give it more weather helm, the idea is to move the sail area forward not back.

And we are blessed to have Mr Perry here, I have almost finished his book, very good read.
2 Weeks Ago 04:37 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Forget the yawl idea - those boats are famous for weather helm. Add a bowsprit instead for more sail area.

And yes, that IS the famous Bob Perry.
2 Weeks Ago 04:17 PM
Woodvet
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

Thank you Mr Perry,
I am thinking if you are the legendary Bob Perry I am in awe... Huge fan of yours. and if my funding committee (wife 34 years) had, had less say so I would have gone larger and chosen any one of a number of your designs. Tayanas are wonderful. The Baba, beautiful.
My hat is off to you Mr Perry in deepest respect.
If I have another boat in me it will be one of yours.
Meanwhile, my plan is not add weight with this 1961 Rawson 30. Rawsons are very heavy boats designed for the heavy weather of the Pacific Northwest. It is noted a third heavier than any other 30 footer.
This particular boat #29 of the 252 built has almost no coring and on the Sac delta she has yet to salt.
Because the absence of salt, she has not had the same problems as some of her sisters where the machine punchings in the concrete swell and break up the ballast.
The concrete in the hull is up to the sole as you go forward. People have hammered that out and added lead to increase room. This makes for more room below for tanks and such.
The Rawson is considered a slow poke but had an option as a yawl. I was imagining a small steering sail on the stern that might also serve as a main sail on the dinghy but my my ideas are subject to rational review of course and I have had none on that or the replacement of the ballast.
My guess is a ballast that runs deeper would need less weight for the same effect on the rig.
Thank you for your time in any case. My friends will be flabbergasted that I talked to the illustrious Mr. Perry.
PS, BTW. I knew the daughter of Mr Sprague, mechanical engineer of Mr Garden. In fact I have been to his home in the San Juans many years back.
2 Weeks Ago 01:05 PM
bobperry
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

I would not add lead. The boat is heavy already. Weight is always the enemy. Why add more? Your hull form is a not the type that has much form stability so just live with it. But "breaking off" the keel is not going to happen. That glass is probably close to an inch thick down there. I'm guessing but I am a damn good guesser.
2 Weeks Ago 01:01 PM
Faster
Re: Rawson 30- A Blue Water Cruiser?

These boats are molded hulls with internal ballast, are they not? so in theory there's no keel to 'break off' as in a fin-keel type of design..

I don't know if that kind of modification is worthwhile undertaking. If you're unsuccessful in sealing the 'add-ons' leakage into the ballast space will cause all kinds of trouble. This is designer territory, not DIY kind of stuff.

Balance the rig up, do you have the common bow sprit addition? Probably more benefit from that than anything else.
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