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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > AGM batteries: Someone using them?
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Thread: AGM batteries: Someone using them? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-27-2012 11:28 PM
Jgbrown
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

What about lifepo4? Less fire risk than Li-on. Pings packs are pretty reasonable.
24V is the lowest standard pack but he builds custom packs too. Well regarded in the e-bike community, he stands behind his work and builds solid and reliable packs.

Ping specs:


Leadtime: 7 days
It will take about 7 days for us to build and test this new battery pack for you.

Specifications:
Suitable Wattage of Motor: up to 800W rated motor, 600 Watt suggested
Applications: E-Bike, Electric Bike, E-Scooter, Electric Scooter
Voltage: 24 Volts
Capacity: 30 Amp Hours
Dimension: 300x105x150 mm / 11.9x4.1x5.9 inches
Weight: 7.50 kg / 16.5 lbs
Charging Voltage: 30 Volts
Charging Current: <10 Amps
Rated Discharging Amperage: 30 Amps
Max Continuous Discharging Amperage: 60 Amps
Maximum Discharging Current: 100 Amps
Discharging Cut-off Protection: 75 Amps
Lifecycle of the whole pack: >85% capacity after 1000 cycles. Lifecycle of single cell: >85% capacity after 1500 cycles, >70% capacity after 3000 cycles. (<1C discharge rate and <1C charge rate)



Or alternatively, Golden Motors (goldenmotors.ca) makes some good large batteries, they use large flat cells IIRC. They are typically 48V, but can also build custom packs as well.

Both in the standard car battery format(to fit exisiting systems) and in stainless rectangular columns(wires at top)
48V20AH and 30AH respectively





Pricey but if you are short on space, or you need something that AGM can't do they might be a good option.
03-21-2012 12:05 AM
PCP
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Paulo,

Did you look at the Lifeline 6 Volt- GPL-4 CT? The "footprint is 4 of them equals about the space of 3 group 31 and you wind up with 440 ah at 20 hrs. WE have 6 of them and remembr they can be laid on their sides even. An extra 60 lbs gets you 70 more ah or another 2 days without charging for us. You will be a happy with either Lifeline as long as you equalize them. They have 1 year full and 5 year limited warrenties also.

To measure our battery compartment for space or fit I made cardboard shoe boxes in the size of the batterries and fitted them in the space before buying them to figure out space and the right configuration as they are too heavy to play around with..

Dave
Yes, I have seen them and when I saw them I understood why you have chosen 6V batteries. The size makes them very versatile in what concerns storage. Basically I have to study the best way to put the Max capacity on that battery box.

The 6 volt batteries are not excluded. I have to see what the best arrangement is. However putting them on another place is out of question. Batteries are heavy and that box is over the keel at the boat center and I want to keep the weight there

Regards

Paulo
03-20-2012 11:54 PM
chef2sail
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Paulo,

Did you look at the Lifeline 6 Volt- GPL-4 CT? The "footprint is 4 of them equals about the space of 3 group 31 and you wind up with 440 ah at 20 hrs. WE have 6 of them and remembr they can be laid on their sides even. An extra 60 lbs gets you 70 more ah or another 2 days without charging for us. You will be a happy with either Lifeline as long as you equalize them. They have 1 year full and 5 year limited warrenties also.

To measure our battery compartment for space or fit I made cardboard shoe boxes in the size of the batterries and fitted them in the space before buying them to figure out space and the right configuration as they are too heavy to play around with..

Dave
03-20-2012 11:02 PM
PCP
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
These are examples of group 31 wets we have access to over here.

Trojan SCS-225 / Group 31 = 130Ah
US Battery 31DCXC / Group 31 = 130Ah


I would not put Johnson Controls batteries, such as the Varta line, in the same class with Lifeline, Odyssey, Northstar or other high quality AGM batteries.

And yes with a 345Ah bank and a 140A alternator you CAN take better advantage of AGM's acceptance..
Thanks. It is a 150A alternator, 140A is what they say it can produce hot (Balmar).

Nice to know that I am making some sense. I plan also to have an hydrogenerator that can produce 500 watts sailing and as I like to sail that should top the batteries, I mean after the additional charge with the engine.

Regards

Paulo
03-20-2012 10:27 PM
Maine Sail
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
No, I am a fast learner I am using C20 Ah rating for all. I am limited to what I can find here. I can find Optima that have a low capacity but also Varta and Lifeline.

Varta is a main provider in Europe and on their line of premium batteries that they call professional for similar size the AGM have more Ah (c20): 115 to 90 or 105Ah.

http://www.varta-automotive.com/file...rogramm-en.jpg

VARTA PROFESSIONAL - VARTA Automotive

Lifeline has even a better capacity.They have the GPL-31XT that offers 125Ah for the same size.

The wets I can find with that size have only 100Ah. Varta is an exception offering 105Ah, but that is still far from 125Ah and that difference X 3 are more 60Ah.

I don't know the size of the battery box of my boat and I don't know if they fit, but just a bit wider the Lifeline has the GPL-30HT that offers 150A. It is higher but I don't have a problem with that. I don't know of any wet batteries that have a regular shape but are higher, like this one from Lifeline.

Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries

Of course, this is just what I have found but I don't think here I can find wets with the same capacity of the AGM ones. Maybe I am not looking at the right places. Any suggestion?

Regards

Paulo

These are examples of group 31 wets we have access to over here.

Trojan SCS-225 / Group 31 = 130Ah
US Battery 31DCXC / Group 31 = 130Ah


I would not put Johnson Controls batteries, such as the Varta line, in the same class with Lifeline, Odyssey, Northstar or other high quality AGM batteries.

And yes with a 345Ah bank and a 140A alternator you CAN take better advantage of AGM's acceptance..
03-20-2012 09:49 PM
PCP
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
AGM batteries usually have less Ah's per case size than do wets.. In all but some esoteric power gen / back up power AGM cases the wets and AGM's are very often avaible in the identical case sizes.

Please be sure you are comparing apples to apples in that you are comparing a 20 hour AH rating to a 20 hour Ah rating. You can't compare reserve minutes or reserve capacity to Ah capacity at the 20 hour rate though I see people do it and then ruin the bank....
No, I am a fast learner I am using C20 Ah rating for all. I am limited to what I can find here. I can find Optima that have a low capacity but also Varta and Lifeline.

Varta is a main provider in Europe and on their line of premium batteries that they call professional for similar size the AGM have more Ah (c20): 115 to 90 or 105Ah.

http://www.varta-automotive.com/file...rogramm-en.jpg

VARTA PROFESSIONAL - VARTA Automotive

Lifeline has even a better capacity.They have the GPL-31XT that offers 125Ah for the same size.

The wets I can find with that size have only 100Ah. Varta is an exception offering 105Ah, but that is still far from 125Ah and that difference X 3 are more 60Ah.

I don't know the size of the battery box of my boat and I don't know if they fit, but just a bit wider the Lifeline has the GPL-30HT that offers 150A. It is higher but I don't have a problem with that. I don't know of any wet batteries that have a regular shape but are higher, like this one from Lifeline.

Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries

Of course, this is just what I have found but I don't think here I can find wets with the same capacity of the AGM ones. Maybe I am not looking at the right places. Any suggestion?

Regards

Paulo
03-20-2012 05:01 PM
Maine Sail
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post

With that alternator and even considering the 345Ah home bank I will charge two times faster the AGM than the wet ones. Another advantage is the more flexibility in sizes (higher batteries) and more capacity for size of the AGM batteries.


Paulo
AGM batteries usually have less Ah's per case size than do wets.. In all but some esoteric power gen / back up power AGM cases the wets and AGM's are very often avaible in the identical case sizes.

Please be sure you are comparing apples to apples in that you are comparing a 20 hour AH rating to a 20 hour Ah rating. You can't compare reserve minutes or reserve capacity to Ah capacity at the 20 hour rate though I see people do it and then ruin the bank....
03-20-2012 02:40 PM
PCP
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Paulo

With your planned arrangement that won't happen. Based on Maine Sail's measurements wet will accept 25%C in bulk vs agm's 40%C in bulk mode.
Faster - yes a bit if the alt is big enough. The larger the bank, assuming a large alt, the more you gain. 360 AH and the alt you will have, which Maine Sail thinks will max at 90 amps hot will not gain you very much.

Read post #28 by Maine Sail again for the full explanation.
Based on what mainsail has said and in a lot more information I would say that the wet will accept between 20 and 25%, the Gel 40% and the AGM is dificult to say, but surely 50% and over.

You don't know what will be my planned arrangement because I made a reset after hearing Main Sail. I am still thinking and I have to see the space and the batteries I can have (I have space for batteries with an unusual height). I am still looking at the market in Europe but I guess that I can have between 345Ah and 450Ah on the house bank plus a 100Ah for the engine.

To have that capacity I can only have it with AGM. I don't find wet batteries with that capacity/size.

I am trying to see if a Balmar 150A can be fitted on the boat. I have posted their information about the performance:

http://www.balmar.net/PDF/SIX-SERIES-ALTERNATORS.pdf

They say it goes over 140Amp even hot.

With that alternator and even considering the 345Ah home bank I will charge two times faster the AGM than the wet ones. Another advantage is the more flexibility in sizes (higher batteries) and more capacity for size of the AGM batteries.

I am still studding the "thing" so if someone was any suggestions to make they will be more than welcome.

Regards

Paulo
03-20-2012 01:55 AM
mitiempo
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Wet batteries can last longer are less demanding, but compared with a properly AGM/alternator set-up can take 3 times more time to recharge to 85% with the engine.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo

With your planned arrangement that won't happen. Based on Maine Sail's measurements wet will accept 25%C in bulk vs agm's 40%C in bulk mode.
Faster - yes a bit if the alt is big enough. The larger the bank, assuming a large alt, the more you gain. 360 AH and the alt you will have, which Maine Sail thinks will max at 90 amps hot will not gain you very much.

Read post #28 by Maine Sail again for the full explanation.
03-20-2012 01:18 AM
peterhurcos
Re: AGM batteries: Someone using them?

They sell AGM batteries now at Sam's Club. $175 for a 55 AH battery, which I don't think is a particularly cheap price.
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