SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...
 Not a Member? 


Thread: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment... Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
04-12-2012 09:29 PM
Brent Swain
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I used 4 inch sch 40 pipe for the mooring bits on Silas Crosby, ran thru a 12 inch square , 3/16th doubler plate, to a point ten inches below decks , where I welded it on a horizontal piece of plate, which was welded to the transom. You can see this bit in the bottom of the picture, next to the chock. It has a sheer strength of 90 tons.
If there was a chafe problem , one could run a short length of chain around the bit, to take it clear of the hull, where the rope would be attached.
The Silas Crosby has a single aluminium door for a main hatch , which is extremely tough and resistant to any boarding wave. She is also a centre cockpit boat, which makes her even more resistant to boarding waves.
Altho I have never cruised in a boat with a reverse transom, those who have, said they invite, and even launch a breaking wave into the cockpit. The difference between a reverse and traditionally sloped transom is around 6,000 lbs of extra buoyancy in the stern of the boat with the traditional transom. Thus, a reverse transom may be the cause of waves ending up in the cockpit.
Being a steel hull, she has a fraction the structural worries of non metal boats.
She has since rounded the horn.
On a fibreglass boat a large stainless U bolt in the corners of the transom, with huge backup plates would be the best attachment points for a drogue.
With the drogue shackled on, thru hard eyes, there would be zero chafe.
I built my own parabolic drogue from salvaged seat belts ( free) , using a large mooring ball , about 5 ft in diameter , as a mold. I stapled the webbing in the shape of a half sphere over this ball, then sewed it later, while removing the staples.
A friend on a Fraser 41 , during the queens birthday storm off New Zealand used this type of Galerider drogue with good success. He kept having to shorten the rode to stop it from fouling the skeg, in the troughs, when the line went slack. When it was down to 80 feet , it worked far better, the rode stopped going slack, and they went to sleep til the storm was over. This saves one from having to carry a huge amount of line.
Boats with drogues from the bow tend to lie beam on, which is far less comfortable and puts far greater loads on the drogue and line.
04-11-2012 01:25 PM
meteuz
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I don't think the separate retrieval line is a good idea. It might work if you are deploying the JSD for a quick lunch, but if left out for a while my guess is that the line would end up wrapped around the JSD anyway and when you pull it, you would still be pulling the JSD from the front, not the back. That must be why they have elaborate instructions for retrieving the JSD using winches on alternating sides. I have never used a JSD, but I am convinced that it deserves a spot in one's bag of tricks.
04-11-2012 11:51 AM
theboilerflue
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

Steve has a padeye welded to each of his stern bollards from which he uses a chain bridle and the JSD comes off that, the bollards are welded to the hull (below decks) and doubler plated at deck. They have a great blog at *|*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irunbird View Post
From Jordanseriesdrogue.com -

Attachments on the Hull
The hull attachments for the drogue should be as far outboard and as far aft as possible. I have no information on the ultimate strength of a typical sheet winch installation, and it would be difficult to evaluate each structure. Unfortunately, a winch is not an ideal structure, since the load is applied above the deck line and tends to overturn the winch and pull it out. The optimum attachment for the drogue is clearly a strap similar to a chainplate, bolted to the hull at the corners of the transom and extending aft with a shackle.

For a load of 14,000 lbs, a strap ľ x 2.25 x 18 inches attached with six 3/8 bolts would provide a conservative design.

A large steel cleat would be acceptable if the deck is thick solid fiberglass and a steel plate is provided underneath.
04-11-2012 11:15 AM
smurphny
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

The type of heavy duty military surplus cargo chutes mentioned in Storm Tacticshave not been available as far as I was able to find. They were built with very heavy reinforced polymer. That's why I bought a Para-Anchor which is designed to take the extreme loads, proven and tested. Why screw with something like this? The Para (which I hope to never use) is MUCH heftier than a regular parachute. Moving water can exert unbelievable force.
04-11-2012 09:46 AM
Minnewaska
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I believe people have used ordinary chutes and they are prone to fail. Purpose built sea anchors have the ability to off load excess force through tear away panels or other openings. Think of it this way.

The weight of a 1 inch column of air that extends from sea level to the top of the atmosphere is approximately 15 lbs.

A 1 inch column of water that weighs 15 lbs is only 33 ft tall.

The drag and pressure differentials are extreme. The chute should probably take that into consideration.
04-11-2012 08:09 AM
justflie
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

Warning, noob here.

Do you guys ever use actual parachutes (the nylon kind that fall out of the sky) for this kind of deceleration/stabilization work? If so, what kinds do you use? Has anyone considered a ringslot/ribbon canopy? Instead of the typical type of round parachute you think of, this one is made of concentric bands held together with webbing. It would allow water to escape through the slots between the bands. Cargo ringslot parachutes are extremely strong, nylon canopies. They are towed behind aircraft at 150 knots with no damage. Nt sure how they would fair in salt water, but just a thought.

For reference, the one I'm thinking of is 15' diameter. If that's too small, there's also a 28'.
04-11-2012 07:32 AM
PCP
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I am not a big fan of this kind of systems but it seems to me that this one is the best. With this one you can even control your speed, letting go more or less cones.

On those conditions I would not have used it (on my boat), I mean with that sea and wind but I don’t know their boat. It seems to me that it is an old hull with a narrow stern and that kind of boat roll a lot dead downwind.

Anyway it seems to me that if he had taken one of the head sails, changed the course to 135/140 of true wind he would have stabilized the boat would not need to deploy the drogue and would be making good speed. Perhaps he just wanted to make a movie about the drogue.

Regards

Paulo
04-11-2012 07:02 AM
smurphny
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I don't see how a small, swiveled float on the end of a parachute type drogue would substantially impede the function. It would probably make it much easier to retrieve as with a sea anchor. Pulling in a series drogue, it seems, would be difficult from either end as the cones would still likely exert quite a bit of drag, albeit less than when going in their functional direction.

My first choice is still the para-anchor, mainly because with an older style hull with a keel attached rudder that heaves-to readily but has little control surfing down the face of waves, keeping the pointy end into the sea still seems like the right thing to do. Having waves break over the cockpit is just not my idea of how I want to deal with a large, dangerous, breaking sea...sorry.
04-10-2012 07:17 PM
travlineasy
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I read all the retrieval information available, and everyone pretty much said it was a real PITA that required the strength of a young athlete--not a shot to Hell 71-year-old man. Now, looking at all the videos, diagrams, etc..., my thought process kicked in and said "Why not just attach a line to the tail end of the drogue and use it for retrieval. This would invert the parachutes, thereby decreasing the resistance substantially. The retrieval line could be tied off to a cleat on the stern's corner, which I believe would prevent it from becoming wrapped around the drogue's main line.

So far, at least for me, heaving too and allowing the storm to pass seems like a much better option. There are several instances in Pardy's Storm Tactics Handbook that relate to boats using drogues attached to their stern with a bridle. Some sank, many suffered severe damage. Lynn Pardy aptly describes typical weather patterns and the onset of storm patterns in the book(s), information that I believe it very accurate--at least in my part of the world. Like I said earlier, I'll give it a try this summer and I'm fairly open minded about these things.

Back to the retrieval. I got to thinking about this again last night. When I spent endless hours offshore in a relatively small boat fishing for billfish and tuna there were times when the action of the lures twisted the fishing line horribly. The only way to untwist the line was to remove the lures and all hardware, then just let the line pay out behind the boat while you cruised toward home port. Well, after about 100 yards of line is out, the reel was engaged and the friction of the line, with absolutely nothing attached, at 5 knots, was just about enough to drag the person holding the rod overboard. Now were talking about 50-pound-test, fine-diameter monofilament line--not half-inch drogue line with a couple dozen 5-inch parachutes attached. Think about it!

Gary
04-10-2012 05:14 PM
IslanderGuy
Re: Video of Jordan Series Drogue deployment...

I'm intrigued by the fact that, after watching a video of the successful use of a JSD to slow a boat in foul weather and ease the motion successfully, and after they state the retrieval time was about 20 minutes, and so easy they deployed it again in a few days just to be more comfy, there's so much concern about the effectiveness for the JDS and the difficulty with retrieval.

True, if the storm had been much worse, they may have been in danger of getting pooped, or in need of turning the boat into the wind, but it wasn't. Perhaps it's not ideal for all boats, all crews, or all conditions, but for them in their conditions it seemed to have the desired effect and be easy enough to retrieve. I'm impressed, and thanks for sharing the video!

I may try to contact them and find out more info about the retrieval process they used. I don;t have a JSD yet, but plan to have one some day, for just such situations as this (and likely others )
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:05 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.