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  Topic Review (Newest First)
4 Minutes Ago 08:13 AM
outbound
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Yup. Have learned the hard way. Now learning the 500mb. But even this and looking at both the European and U.S. models doesn't tell you what's going to happen right where you are. All this stuff gives you probabilities.
20 Minutes Ago 07:57 AM
aeventyr60
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

^ The proliferation of downloading just the "grib files" is adding to the delusion too.
30 Minutes Ago 07:47 AM
outbound
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

You gentlemen may wish to read the most recent PS. Ralph Naranjo makes very good points.
There is another reality. Just like Tip said " all politics are local" so is weather. Have already experienced getting sat phone/ssb downloads from three sources and having a weather router on hire all telling me 20-30 for the next two days then experiencing one after another squalls with gusts into the fifties. Even the metereoman was of no help.
As said by others here elsewhere weather forecasts are truly reliable for 2-3 days. Of less help for a passage longer then that. Also systems may move faster than your hull speed. So it's not if but rather when it will get bumpy.
Don't give up on a recording barometer and radar as a good friends when talking weather routing. They tell you what's happening near you.
Those thinking they will outrace weather are foolish. On the very fast boats once it gets bumpy you will need to slow down for the integrity of the boat or crew comfort. On fast boats it will still move faster then you all too often. And there will always be white squalls, pop up T storms and the like.
1 Hour Ago 06:18 AM
jerryrlitton
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

I don't think Mother Nature much appreciates trailer parks nor Hunters....
However these new house trailers are taking advantage of this new technology, titanium and carbon fiber construction. Much lighter..new hull I mean body design helping it slip through the air just an eensy bit easier. This way you can pull them faster and farther using less fuel thus avoiding those pesky thunderstorms rolling across I10. With your onboard GPS and weather radio there is no excuse to be caught unawares. Access to better insulation in case you need to visit the arctic......
3 Hours Ago 05:14 AM
aeventyr60
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Deluded for sure. Sailors still hitting reefs. Sailors still getting pounded by the weather. Sailors still fixing boats in boat yards. Maybe it's gotten easier to get out here, but mother nature doesn't seem to give a rat's ass.
4 Hours Ago 04:07 AM
jerryrlitton
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by chall03 View Post
Smack I think there is maybe another elephant in the room....Or at least a very big gazelle.

That is what role has improved weather forecasting/routing along with GPS(and data via pactor/sat) played in changing/influencing people's boat choices for 'bluewater' sailing?

The 'bluewater' boats often referenced here were made at a time when if you went across an ocean you assumed you would at some stage get the snot beaten out of you by mother nature coupled with a uncertainty about just how far away that reef to leeward might be because you can't get an accurate fix in the conditions. Given this you could easily forgive the sailors of the 70's-80's for wanting boats built firstly strongly and solidly before anything else.

To put it another way, the only thing you could trust in( other than yourself) was the boat....

Now we can debate how much all this technology can be relied on and trusted( and we should) but I wonder whether real or imagined if perhaps the modern day sailor feels safer, he thinks he can avoid a lot of bad weather through good planning and he has a pretty good idea where just about everything on the face of the planet might be in relation to his boat.

The question remains then is he right or deluded?
We are seeing much of the same thing in aviation. Technology has advanced so far that the industry is now using pilots with less hands on experience then twenty years ago. I kid with an Xbox background can fly you from NY to Paris. No problem. However there is very little or no understanding of the basic concept. It works great until the technology goes away or does not cover that particular problem. I don't think the aircraft are less airworthy though, just the pilots. Nobody flies with charts out anymore. It's all in the FMS...until it is not then they scramble and try to remember basic DR IF they were taught that in the first place. Technology can be a double edged sword. Give me a strong boat, I don't fully trust technology.
4 Hours Ago 03:50 AM
chall03
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Smack I think there is maybe another elephant in the room....Or at least a very big gazelle.

That is what role has improved weather forecasting/routing along with GPS(and data via pactor/sat) played in changing/influencing people's boat choices for 'bluewater' sailing?

The 'bluewater' boats often referenced here were made at a time when if you went across an ocean you assumed you would at some stage get the snot beaten out of you by mother nature coupled with a uncertainty about just how far away that reef to leeward might be because you can't get an accurate fix in the conditions. Given this you could easily forgive the sailors of the 70's-80's for wanting boats built firstly strongly and solidly before anything else.

To put it another way, the only thing you could trust in( other than yourself) was the boat....

Now we can debate how much all this technology can be relied on and trusted( and we should) but I wonder whether real or imagined if perhaps the modern day sailor feels safer, he thinks he can avoid a lot of bad weather through good planning and he has a pretty good idea where just about everything on the face of the planet might be in relation to his boat.

The question remains then is he right or deluded?
1 Day Ago 06:33 AM
seaner97
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaner97 View Post
I was referencing the above article that referred to them that way.
No idea what it is or what it would look like, but sounds like a bad idea to me.
It was referring to keels bolted to glued in liners, not glued on keels. They don't exist.
Hey- I learned something!
1 Day Ago 04:56 AM
mitiempo
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaner97 View Post
I was referencing the above article that referred to them that way.
No idea what it is or what it would look like, but sounds like a bad idea to me.
It was referring to keels bolted to glued in liners, not glued on keels. They don't exist.
1 Day Ago 03:19 AM
Classic30
Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I guess that Smacks point is about comparing the seaworthiness of a new or almost new mass production boat of 40ft or over in pristine condition with the seaworthiness of a 30 year old boat on the general condition they are normally kept and regarding that I would take the new production boat for bluewater sailing over the old shoe, not only because I think it would be safer but because it just would sail better and faster.
Well.. coming from someone with an old clunker who enjoys reading the opinions of the "old boys" (Adlard Coles, Maurice Griffiths, Uffa Fox, Donald Street, etc. etc. ad infinitum) I, for one, would agree with them when they say "safety" and "better, faster" are actually the same thing.

It seems somewhere, sometime late last century people forgot that being able to beat off a lee shore, get out of the way of a storm or simply arrive at your destination before nightfall is actually far more sea-worthy than plodding along out there and putting up with it.
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