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A blue water sailer that can go in light winds

152K views 575 replies 61 participants last post by  GBurton 
#1 ·
Is there such a beast? I'm looking for a 30-36 ft cruiser that can also move in light winds. Local coastal sailing would probably be solo. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good full keel boat that has a little get up and go that doesn't cost a fortune? Cape Dory 28 was on my list, but I want more room. Allied Luders 33 is my front runner right now but on the expensive side. Allied Seawind was a little funky looking in the cabin front for my tastes and too slow in light winds. Downeaster 32 is a good honest boat, but too slow I fear. Apologies if this overlaps another thread. I'm ok with traditional lines or modern ones as long as they have some style.
 
#519 ·
Hey, hey, it wasn’t wine at Farallones, it was the Mai Tai’s at the Pacific Cup dock! And I did come perilously close to buying a sailing dinghy when they said I could get one with a red hull, however. What I’m still trying to figure out what Ferrari has to do with sailing? Are they getting into sponsorship?
 
#521 ·
Hey, hey, it wasn't wine at Farallones, it was the Mai Tai's at the Pacific Cup dock! And I did come perilously close to buying a sailing dinghy when they said I could get one with a red hull, however. What I'm still trying to figure out what Ferrari has to do with sailing? Are they getting into sponsorship?
Damn... Missed out on that one... Guess I was too busy getting the pitch for synthetic rigging to notice the Mai Tai party :D

The Ferrari comparison was mine in reference to the racing boat industry marketing 'cruising' versions to fund their racing development programs; much the same way Ferrari for most of its existence was in the street car market to fund their racing programs.
 
#523 ·
Oh - I forgot this one...

7. You can ONLY sail directly into the wind OR DDW regardless of where your destination is - because that's VMG. And every boat, regardless of hull design acheives pretty much the same speed when in irons. Hence, the Newport 41 is superior.
 
#526 ·
I think a more accurate synopsis of the thread would be:

1. Some people think older design boats are all slow.

2. In order to be "cool" you must be willing to say that a surfboard with a 3' standing room cabin is a comfortable cruiser.

3. Smackdaddys real name is Smacktalker.

:)
 
#527 ·
I think a more accurate synopsis of the thread would be:

1. Some people think older design boats are all slow.
Or rather, some people realize that we have learned since the sixties and are happy to embrace the wonderful new boats that gives us. I love traditional vessels, including the old Colin Archer type boats, but laugh at the ridiculous interpretations in GRP - And we do have a lot of traditional vessels here in Scandinavia.

2. In order to be "cool" you must be willing to say that a surfboard with a 3' standing room cabin is a comfortable cruiser.
And some cannot be ar*ed to read about the actual cruisers being discussed and/or believe that repeating BS will make it true.

3. Smackdaddys real name is Smacktalker.
:)
Well, You're on to something here - but 1 out of three is not good enough :)
 
#533 ·
Joms,

The issue with "WHAT" makes a good cruiser as I think you are implying, will depend upon a lot of factors, ie where you cruise, are you dock/marina hoping, going across a pond, be it literally 100 yds setting up a tent on the other side, or 100+ miles across a pond called the pacific, atlantic, Mediterranean, baltic or what ever sea or ocean or sound or __________

Hence where I am sure why some of us like one something, other slightly different.......all the above mentioned boats will cruise, its just where one will cruise them too. Just as my boat (article linked) while designed to ocean go, most probably would not take it across an Atlantic pond, but would the Med or salish sea where I am.

what works in light airs......not a colin archer, been on some of them........

Marty
 
#534 ·
Blt2Ski,

I agree - I know what I would take, based on what I have learned doing it (albeit only in the Atlantic) - That's why I was defending several types of boats, and find that people should be more openminded to new boats.
Actually the Colin Archers CAN move in light air, because they had a decent amount of sail-area, some of the GRP copies are too heavy though, so make poorer sailers.
 
#536 · (Edited)
Wow, after reading this thread I feel both enlightened and confused -- confused as to what I've been enlightened about.

There is a message I get from the "new, awesome, fast fun, performance" clan that is depressing for me, because from them I realize all older boats are outmoded and pigs, and I need to spend something north of $100K and also get drunk at boat shows, neither of which are in my remit. So Paulo, for instance, what about some good used boats that are a good balance of factors, and under say $90K? I realize this may not be your interest, but can you indulge me?

Then there are those here who have a lot of experience with older boats and for instance the discussion of the Newport 41 and "CCA era boats with IOR rigs" is interesting. This is also because, as I consider boats to buy for a solo or short-handed Trans-Pacific voyage, in my budget, I investigated previous record-holding/young-person circumnavigating boats. I think you can find the S&S 34 (J. Sanders, D. Dicks, J. Martin, J. Watson: lately, "Ella's Pink Lady," 2010; thank you Australia!), Islander 36 (reinforced/modified "Intrepid") , Contessa 32 (etc.) in these record books, and recently. Because these groups did not have massive corporate/wealth sponsorship, I think the boats were chosen in part based on budget (a custom-built craft would have been too costly).

So, what exactly is the problem with these boats, compared to newer designs? What would have been a better choice within the budget I mentioned (cost is a big factor in the real world; I am asking for apples to apples here, not price-no-object theoretical comparisons)?

Of course, the boats I just mentioned are all older designs. Isn't the S&S 34 in some ways similar to the Newport 41? (Please enlighten me on similar/different design features?)

More info here (PDF, Patrick Matthiesen, 2003):
S&S 34 - A Classic Ocean Racer/Cruiser/Voyager

Okay so, are all these older boats 1) pigs/dogs/turtles, 2) incapable of sailing well a) upwind and/or b) in light wind, 3) bad at marinas, 4) not really more seaworthy than the new designs? 5) not easier to sail than newer designs solo/short-handed by say someone who cannot bench 200lbs. in a storm?

I am interested in purchasing a "balanced" boat, and one that is tough too. What do you think -- is there a "middle way"? Any recommendations?
 
#540 · (Edited)
Wow, after reading this thread I feel both enlightened and confused -- confused as to what I've been enlightened about.

There is a message I get from the "new, awesome, fast fun, performance" clan that is depressing for me, because from them I realize all older boats are outmoded and pigs, and I need to spend something north of $100K and also get drunk at boat shows, neither of which are in my remit. So Paulo, for instance, what about some good used boats that are a good balance of factors, and under say $90K? I realize this may not be your interest, but can you indulge me?

...
I am sorry if I gave you that impression I mean that all old boats are pigs. Believe me I don't think that. I believe that modern boats are overall better than older boats but that does not mean that old boats are pigs.

Some where very advanced for their time and are still good boats, like the Vailant 40 or the Farr 38, just to give you examples of two different types of boats. Off course if you compare the Farr 38 to a modern Xp 38 or a Grand Soleil 39 I would have to say the modern boat is better, the same if you compare a Vailant with a Najad 410. That is natural, many years separates those designs and in meantime the materials and the design knowledge have evolved.

You ask me to give you an opinion. That is a tricky thing to do because as you have understood there are very different opinions about what is a boat that has a "good balance of factors" for about 100K.

I would point you two boats from the same designer both remarkably good and modern boats for their design time, an older one from 1988, the Benetau 411 and a more modern one, the Benetau 37, from 2007.

The Benetau 37 you can only have them from 2007 but one thing is the asking price other the sell price. I guess with time you can get one by about 100K.

2006 Beneteau (Sail) Boats For Sale

The Beneteau 411 will be easier to get by that money.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/core/li...ncyid=100&city=&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

Of course this is my idea of an overall well balanced boat by that price. Others will have different ideas;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#537 ·
Hey Alice, welcome to SN. You should look at PCP's epic "Interesting Sailboats" thread here: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/62341-interesting-sailboats.html

In my limited knowledge from the research and discussions here, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with any of the boats you list.

At this point, for me, I like the Beneteau First series as an all-round fast, blue-water cruiser. And you can easily find used Firsts in the sub 100K range.

But, I also like Hunters...seriously. They really are a lot of "luxury" for the money, and are proving quite robust in blue-water as shown by our very own Sequitur.

I think it all really comes down to you, how you sail that boat, and what exactly you want out of it for the majority of time you're on it.

Hopefully PCP will come along and give you some options. Shoot him a PM if he doesn't see this thread.
 
#542 ·
Thanks, Smackdaddy and Paulo, for your replies. I will consider these designs along with older designs. It's helpful to get an idea of what what be considered in newer designs, for the practical buyer (i.e. at an 'affordable' price point).

Smack..: Different topic, but reading around online there are various horror stories about the quality of Hunters ...
 
#543 · (Edited)
Smack..: Different topic, but reading around online there are various horror stories about the quality of Hunters ...
Yeah, there always have been. The issue is, I just don't buy most of them.

A member here, Michael, has a very, very respectable pedigree as a seaman...and he picked the Hunter 49 as his boat after a lot of research and deliberation. He just took Sequitur around Cape Horn, then into an F10-11 that crossed his path. The boat did fine.

That's good enough "quality" for me...especially with the kind of sailing I plan to do for the next 10 years.

Sequitur

Oh, and here is another blue-water boat of questionable quality that did 4 knots in light winds using blankets as a sail...and it was a ********:

Jesús Vidaña - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#544 ·
Smack

Sequitur is a 49' Hunter, near or at the top of their line. The largest or most expensive of any product line is usually the best built and most featured, whether it is a sailboat, car, or toaster. Good on the crew of Sequitur but it is as representative of the rest of the Hunter line as a Ford F350 truck is of their least expensive car, or a Catalina 22 compared to their biggest and best.

Horror stories don't start out of thin air - there is usually some basis of fact involved.
 
#545 · (Edited)
Smack

Sequitur is a 49' Hunter, near or at the top of their line. The largest or most expensive of any product line is usually the best built and most featured, whether it is a sailboat, car, or toaster. Good on the crew of Sequitur but it is as representative of the rest of the Hunter line as a Ford F350 truck is of their least expensive car, or a Catalina 22 compared to their biggest and best.

Horror stories don't start out of thin air - there is usually some basis of fact involved.
True miti. But I still think most of the Hunter bashing is sailor-nerd hysteria. Why else would Beneteau adopt the much-maligned arch technology?



There is, without doubt, SOME basis of fact involved as you say. I just think that for the sailing most of us will ever do, the other 99% of fact involved shows that most any boat will handle the conditions she's sailed into by a competent sailor. It's WAY more about the sailor than it is about the gear.
 
#550 ·
Category A does not mean a boat is designed for offshore work it stands for a minimum of requisites and stability that are judged as necessary to sail offshore. Those minimums without being perfect result of the work of many reputable architects of several nationalities and the requirements are not a closed book. The rules have been perfected and improved with the years trying to obtain more adjusted results. I guess that even myself could make some suggestions to improve that rule;) not in what regards the minimums but in what regards results control.

Good small boats with good overall stability like the Elan 310 make it as a class A boat and I remember that some years ago a Dehler 29 had also make it but that is about as close as you can get in size, at least regarding modern light boats. It is not easy a boat of that size to pass the criteria to make it to class A and it has to be a very well designed and seaworthy boat for its size.

Saying this, that is a minimum. It is obvious that a Hunter 49 a Bavaria 36 and a Elan 310, all class A boats have different levels of seaworthiness. This off course does not mean that you cannot safely cross the Atlantic in an Elan 310. Similar types of boats and probably the Elan 310 do that in large numbers on the Transquadra, racing solo or duo and I don't remember of any that has been capsized.

Regards

Paulo
 
#554 ·
Found the thread here -- the CE EU link is still live here -- but there is no list of boats?

The same thing as
"CE certification by Lloyd's Register Quality Assurance for Category A (Ocean)"?

All sorts of problematic issues and oversights are reported, doing a search of forums, concerning the comprehensiveness of the specifications. Still, could be there's useful information, nonetheless, to consider, within limits.
 
#558 ·
Alice, this is a relative new thing so a 20 year old boat would not be rated not meaning they are not seaworthy, just that they were not certified. They stated to be certified in 1998.

As I have said some 30ft boats are certified as A category, most 34ft are and practically all 36ft pass the requirements.

A list is pretty much unnecessary unless you want to buy a 30ft modern boat.

If you want some sort of list this is a better one since on some boats they give the AVS. However those AVS can differ slightly with the computer program that was used to generate them. For comparison purposes is better to use the ones on the ORCI certificates, when available. Those are all taken the same way and directly comparable between them but not with the computer generated ones.

Google: RYA stability list

and download the XLS document (second on the list).

Regards

Paulo
 
#561 ·
#551 · (Edited)
Look, I am going to get in trouble for saying this, but what is it about Americans, well actually all of the western world come to think of it Australia included, that we require a certificate, or stamp of some kind of 'standard' to tell us whether we can sail a certain boat across an ocean or not???

If a bunch of geeks on a panel tell me a boat is 'certified' category A then I guess I can just hop right on board and sail off into the blue yonder with my family trusting all is good?? If I could just get the geeks to programme the waypoints into my GPS and then get some weather geeks to model the weather and then I won't have to think for myself at all :)

I think if you need any kind of standard to determine for YOU whether your boat is or is not suitable to cross an ocean than you really have no business crossing oceans.
 
#552 ·
Look, I am going to get in trouble for saying this, but what is it about Americans, well actually all of the western world come to think of it Australia included, that we require a certificate, or stamp of some kind of 'standard' to tell us whether we can sail a certain boat across an ocean or not???

If a bunch of geeks on panel tell me a boat is 'certified' category A then I guess I can just hop right on board and sail off into the blue yonder with my family trusting all is good?? If I could just get the geeks to programme the waypoints into my GPS and then get some weather geeks to model the weather and then I won't have to think for myself at all :)

I think if you need any kind of standard to determine for YOU whether your boat is or is not suitable to cross an ocean than you really have no business crossing oceans.
I am not saying that standard should be mandatory. That is another discussion. The purpose of the RCD is to give information to not knowledgeable consumers about boat stability and seaworthiness.

Those minimum requirements while disputable were set by a large body of NA and it will provide some valuable information to the ones that know nothing about boat stability or boat seaworthiness.

It is up to the consumer to set their one rules about what he considers the minimum requirements in what regards a boat to go offshore...at his own risk, even if the insurance companies will probably refuse to insure for offshore a boat that has not been classified as class A by the RCD.

Regards

Paulo
 
#557 · (Edited)
Of course the modern designs are capable of pointing higher and footing faster than the old Albergs. I never said they weren't. But they can't do it all by themselves. The modern designs still need someone who knows how to maximize their boatspeed and minimize their drag. Giving such a boat to a guy who lacks the skill to sail it is like giving an Indy racer to a high school hot rodder. He won't know what to do with it. It makes more sense to first learn how to sail a boat in light air, and then buy a boat that will allow him to make the most of his skills. If he doesn't know how to maximize the boat's potential, then he's wasting it's potential.

Maybe I am misconstruing this thread, but it sounds an awful lot like the OP is asking what kind of boat will make him a good light air sailor. If so, the answer is "No boat will do that." He would do better to ask "How can I become a good light air sailor?" But, he doesn't even need to do that. He can just search the archives for some of Jeff_H's discussions of the subject. Jeff knows how to sail in light air, and explains it clearly.

Too many people think all they need to sail in light air is a light air sailboat, and all they need to hit long, straight golf shots is a fine set of clubs. It doesn't work that way. Too bad, because I could be a great golfer if only I had a great set of clubs. :D
 
#559 ·
It's been interesting reading, almost used half of my Sunday for the whole tread :), what du you think about salona 45 for sale here

http://www.yachtworld.dk/baade/2003/Salona-45-1727495/country.kroatien
for 74000 eur you can not go wrong, put for instance 20 k more and you have perfect blue water boat which is modern design, big enough, I know it is former charter boat but at this price it is almost unbeatable!
 
#560 ·
It's been interesting reading, almost used half of my Sunday for the whole tread :), what du you think about salona 45 for sale here

2003 Salona 45 Sejl Båd til salg - www.yachtworld.dk
for 74000 eur you can not go wrong, put for instance 20 k more and you have perfect blue water boat which is modern design, big enough, I know it is former charter boat but at this price it is almost unbeatable!
Yes I agree and even if that interior is a lot less nicer than the ones from the new Salonas the boat has a great price and it will make a good offshore boat with the right equipment.

Here you can see the same boat for a lot more money:D

Salona 45 - Salona Yachts

That charter company is directly run by the factory so they can put there the boats at factory cost and that is a big advantage for them in what regards price. Now they want to change the 45 on charter by the newer 44 and they want it for the next charter season so they want to sell it fast. As you can see the boat was at a very different price.

Buying to them has another advantage: if you want to change something on the boat or make a small alteration or add equipment it would be made by the factory (that is few kms away) providing you don't ask them in the summer;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#562 ·
just want to leave a short reply. I used to windsurf a lot and when you have big waves you need to go surfing very fast, and evrything becomes easier, no drag anymore and you have speed enough to go above white tops etc. So even though it can not be directly compared to sailing boats, I do understand your points concernig those new designs. the only question is if it is possible to maintain those high surfing speed and how much effort you need to put into it. Anyway I just want to say that I understand your points from windsurf angle. On the other side I own elan 34 from 1997 And I do find it a bit scary when in big waves and once it start surfing, so I hope that those new designs feel much more stable under heavy seas or it would be a very long trip across the dam :)
 
#563 ·
That was not what I meant to say. You don´t need to go to high surfing speeds, you just need to keep the boat sailing. You don't need to go very fast on a modern boat to take advantage of its dynamic stability properties.

That was not what I said but it works also the way you say on very light and sportive cruisers and the Elan 350 or the Pogo 10.50 are good examples of that kind of boat. Here you have a very light racing 35ft sailed solo in extreme conditions. I don't mean the weather but the sail the boat carries.



He would be a lot safer and not doing much less speed with a bit less sail.

You can see that the guy is confident enough on his boat to leave the boat on autopilot and go forward to put a spinnaker:eek:….now that was really too much abuse:D and the boat could not take it, I mean not going safely downwind on autopilot with full main and jib but the spinnaker.

Not a problem to recover the boat and get going again…with no spinnaker but at a fantastic speed.

I am not telling you that this is cruising, even if it is certainly having fun, but with some less sail and some less speed he would be cruising on autopilot doing double figures in all safety.

Similar boats got last night, on a Transat that is going on, 45K winds. All keep racing, none went for defensive sailing and none had a problem with seaworthiness.

Regards

Paulo
 
#566 ·
paulo, I agree, what I wanted to say is that once windsurf board is up and surfing, not necceserely at high speeds just surfing, than everything is easier, it is easier to steer, no drag at all, rig is lighter to hold, it is easier to come above white tops etc... just saying that there are some similarities...
 
#568 · (Edited)
This thread starts out asking about "Blue Water" boats in "Light airs". That usually implies certain requirements. The thread ended showing a nice video of a race boat in heavy air. I see no dinghy on that boat or an anchor. It also probably does not have 70 gallons of water aboard nor 3000#s of stuff. But, thanks anyway Paulo.
This thread also took the common route from good advice to some ridiculously poor information. Thanks to RichH and a few others we heard the truth. The poor information, as usual, comes from the theorist.
Once again the Westsail 32 was mentioned as a boat to stay away from. Jeff H says "the Westsail 32 is useless as a sailboat in winds under 8k". Many of you jumped in to agree. GeorgeB being just one. The "Proof" is the wetted surface and the "High drag". How high is that drag? I don't believe any of you actually mentioned how many pounds of drag there is in a 32' full keel vs. a 32' fin keel when both keels are very smooth.
There are a number of explanations as to why all of you have usually seen W-32s sailing around slowly. The number one reason, by far, is the boat owner. Many boat owners have completely different priorities than you do and their boat performance reflects that. In most cases you attribute that slowness to other aspects of the boat. In my opinion, the wrong aspects. As just one example: if you see a Hans Christian sailing slowly are you thinking about the fixed 3 bladed propeller the boat might be dragging or the 200+ books aboard the boat?
I can respectfully acknowledge that one's opinions and convictions are determined by their own experiences as are ones world views; thus the differences in people are far greater than in those between boats.
How slow is a W-32 in light winds? The following event was well documented and tracked by hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Days 4 through 7 (or so) of the 2010 SHTP (single handed trans pac) were in extremely light winds. Head winds and following winds occurred, often less than 4k. It was during this time that the W-32 made its biggest gains against all the other boats. Valiant 40, Olson 34, Islander 36, Martin 32, Express 27, just to name a few. The W-32 had all of the theoretical strikes against it yet it still was able to sail equally, Boat for Boat, to any of the other boats (that had propellers in the water). There is a real world explanation, but make up your own conclusions if you will. You cannot get the proper explanation from a theorist. The only real truth is that boats like a W-32 are quite a bit better sail boats than our experts want you to believe. I must question their agenda. Our experts, Paulo included, grossly exaggerate the benefits of the modern design.
The accompanying photos show a W-32 off the coast of Washington. The TRUE wind is approximately 3.1k. Does anyone here really believe that a Farr 38, Elan, or Figaro 35 would be able to do a lot better? Do you think that your boat could do a lot better? And, don't forget to put that dinghy and the anchors, and 70 gallons of water, and the 3000#s of stuff aboard when you make that test.
Quote: Jeff H; "Calling a spade a spade is not denigrating anyone's boat. Its just simple honesty"
Thanks for listening



 
#571 · (Edited)
This thread starts out asking about "Blue Water" boats in "Light airs". That usually implies certain requirements. The thread ended showing a nice video of a race boat in heavy air. I see no dinghy on that boat or an anchor. It also probably does not have 70 gallons of water aboard nor 3000#s of stuff. But, thanks anyway Paulo.
This thread also took the common route from good advice to some ridiculously poor information. Thanks to RichH and a few others we heard the truth. The poor information, as usual, comes from the theorist.
Once again the Westsail 32 was mentioned as a boat to stay away from. Jeff H says "the Westsail 32 is useless as a sailboat in winds under 8k". Many of you jumped in to agree. GeorgeB being just one. The "Proof" is the wetted surface and the "High drag". How high is that drag? I don't believe any of you actually mentioned how many pounds of drag there is in a 32' full keel vs. a 32' fin keel when both keels are very smooth.
There are a number of explanations as to why all of you have usually seen W-32s sailing around slowly. The number one reason, by far, is the boat owner. Many boat owners have completely different priorities than you do and their boat performance reflects that. In most cases you attribute that slowness to other aspects of the boat. In my opinion, the wrong aspects. As just one example: if you see a Hans Christian sailing slowly are you thinking about the fixed 3 bladed propeller the boat might be dragging or the 200+ books aboard the boat?
I can respectfully acknowledge that one's opinions and convictions are determined by their own experiences as are ones world views; thus the differences in people are far greater than in those between boats.
How slow is a W-32 in light winds? The following event was well documented and tracked by hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Days 4 through 7 (or so) of the 2010 SHTP (single handed trans pac) were in extremely light winds. Head winds and following winds occurred, often less than 4k. It was during this time that the W-32 made its biggest gains against all the other boats. Valiant 40, Olson 34, Islander 36, Martin 32, Express 27, just to name a few. The W-32 had all of the theoretical strikes against it yet it still was able to sail equally, Boat for Boat, to any of the other boats (that had propellers in the water). There is a real world explanation, but make up your own conclusions if you will. You cannot get the proper explanation from a theorist. The only real truth is that boats like a W-32 are quite a bit better sail boats can our experts want you to believe. I must question their agenda. Our experts, Paulo included, grossly exaggerate the benefits of the modern design.
The accompanying photos show a W-32 off the coast of Washington. The TRUE wind is approximately 3.1k. Does anyone here really believe that a Farr 38, Elan, or Figaro 35 would be able to do a lot better? Do you think that your boat could do a lot better? And, don't forget to put that dinghy and the anchors, and 70 gallons of water, and the 3000#s of stuff aboard when you make that test.
Quote: Jeff H; "Calling a spade a spade is not denigrating anyone's boat. Its just simple honesty"
Thanks for listening



I really like what you said about differences in people being greater than differences in types of boats...I'm still working on the 200+ books aboard the ship's library but now that i got a bigger boat just give me some time...200 is a bit more than I'd hope to have..maybe would settle for four score and seven...lol..someday or around that number... probably only have about a dozen books on sailing/boating in my boat right now...but I definitely will have the 3000 lbs of gear after I get the stuff out of the laundry room and onto the boat soon...and I do got the 70 gal water tank and am working on installing a good side-loading washer and dryer set maybe...:)
btw....good post and the thread certainly needed to be brought back to topic...score +1 one for oregonian!
 
#569 · (Edited)
Not that I have any dog in this thread, but Oregonian, you know well that ISAF race rules (and PIYA) require two anchors and ground tackle appropriate to the length and displacement of the boat. There's no need to tell us what a race boat 'doesn't' have when in fact it's required. That includes both fuel and water for the journey. Hot showers? A dishwasher? No. I'm glad you love your Westsail and that you sail it well, but yes, I do believe many boats will do better in light air including my own. You corrected out if I remember, which means you sailed very well for your rating. You didn't sail faster boat for boat. But do correct me if I'm wrong. No worries though. My opinion isn't all that important, and congrats! Honestly, you sail the hell out of your boat. Your results are nothing short of amazing. It's scary to imagine what might happen if you were sailing something lighter and faster.
 
#570 ·
Not that I have any dog in this thread, but Oregonian, you know well that ISAF race rules (and PIYA) require two anchors and ground tackle appropriate to the length and displacement of the boat. There's no need to tell us what a race boat 'doesn't' have when in fact it's required. That includes both fuel and water for the journey. Hot showers? A dishwasher? No. I'm glad you love your Westsail and that you sail it well, but yes, I do believe many boats will do better in light air including my own. You corrected out if I remember, which means you sailed very well for your rating. You didn't sail faster boat for boat. But do correct me if I'm wrong. No worries though. My opinion isn't all that important, and congrats!
What boat do you have puddinglegs?
 
#572 ·
Puddinglegs, I do not like to correct someone but I am going for accuracy here as many errors have already been made on this thread and this forum. Your opinion DOES matter to me. I appreciate your posting and your many responses to this forum.
My earlier post stated BOAT FOR BOAT performance during the light airs of that event. I do not concern myself with corrected performance. The documented tracks as shown on the internet and posted by the race committee clearly show the Westsail-32 out running all the boats mentioned (and others) during the most extreme light winds of the race.
The biggest regret of the race was when the Olson 34 passed, within sight, on the very last day. The Bozo at the helm of the Westsail allowed a nasty gybe to occur while talking to his wife on the computer. Yes, the wife was to blame. The last 600 miles were sailed with a big reef and a broken boom. The Olson 34 beat the Westsail 32 to Hawaii by one hour 12 minutes - after 17 days.
Another correction of an error made on this thread: regarding “that widely quoted Pacific race” This is the FACT; Yes the W-32 was the last boat to finish in the PHRF class. It was NOT the last boat to finish the race as there was an IOR class also. The last boat to finish that race was a C&C31. If a person is not comfortable naming a boat, as I am not, then it may simply be said that the 31’ fin keel boat was slower than the 32’ full keel boat in what was in fact a “light wind” year. (It was not light wind as we normally define it as it was actually over 8k most of the time)
Souljour2000. Thanks for that. Let me know if you’re ever in the area.
 
#574 ·
I'll stick with the modern, fast boat that's got a spacious, comfy interior. And I'll save some warm beer for you full-keelers at the finish.

That's just how I roll.

(Oh yeah, we just won our class and were 3rd overall a few weeks ago in an amply-keeled Pearson 365 ketch...among a fleet including J-Boats, Benes, and even a MacG 65. But I still want a pimpin' fat-assed sled.)
 
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