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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related) > Why a ketch?
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Thread: Why a ketch? Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
05-14-2012 12:54 PM
SloopJonB
Re: Why a ketch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
Zee:
I think you could write a book on the history of that boat and the many yards that built it. But design credit should go to the son of Bill Hardin according to Bill Garden. Bill Garden has a lot of ketches to his legitimate credit but I would certainly never refer to them in a generic kind of way. Check out ZIA, a big Garden ketch. Check out Tatoosh, a slender canoe hulled Garden ketch. Then there is FOAM. Then comes SEAL. PIXIE is a great Garden ketch. And who could forget PORPOISE and the magnificent NORTH CAPE. But if you look at these ketches the one thing that truly stands out is that there is no such thing as a generic "Garden ketch". That was the genius of Bill. He explored all the edges of design.
That's so true. Having loved his work for decades and having all of his books (well thumbed) I know of no other designer who's work was so incredibly varied. Also, no-one ever designed better looking deck structures IMHO - his pilothouse designs are uniquely handsome. Find some pics of his beachcombing boat "Beach Boy" and you'll see what I mean.
05-12-2012 05:32 PM
sea_hunter
Re: Why a ketch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by utchuckd View Post
Thanks, great responses. What about expense and maintenance? I assume they'd be more for a second mast?
Edit: Also, does size of the boat come into consideration?
Basically the costs are doubled in theory, but isn't usually reflected in the purchase price (of used); a sloop is a sloop and a ketch is a ketch. We recently had our sails cleans and repaired and the mizzen was half the price of the main and a quarter the price of the genoa. Again, it's about square footage when it comes to the canvas and the rigging as the mizzen's rigging is half of the main's. Size, in terms of length is less important than displacement where hull ratios define rigging type. Generally what one sees is that the heavier displacement boats have more sticks, which translates to more sail and power closer to the center of gravity; keeping in mind most hulls are fastest when closer to vertical. I've been on boats where cutter, sloop and ketch rigging were available on the same hull; the ketch sailed the best, especially when cruising. An example is the Gulfstar 50 CC, while being 50' is relatively light and sails just fine as a sloop, but came rigged for cruisering as a ketch.
05-12-2012 03:54 PM
CrazyRu
Re: Why a ketch?

Ketches are great for maneuvering in tight quarters motor-less. it is forgotten art.
I wouldn't have a stayed ketch though - it is too complex.
05-12-2012 01:28 PM
bobperry
Re: Why a ketch?

Zee:
I think you could write a book on the history of that boat and the many yards that built it. But design credit should go to the son of Bill Hardin according to Bill Garden. Bill Garden has a lot of ketches to his legitimate credit but I would certainly never refer to them in a generic kind of way. Check out ZIA, a big Garden ketch. Check out Tatoosh, a slender canoe hulled Garden ketch. Then there is FOAM. Then comes SEAL. PIXIE is a great Garden ketch. And who could forget PORPOISE and the magnificent NORTH CAPE. But if you look at these ketches the one thing that truly stands out is that there is no such thing as a generic "Garden ketch". That was the genius of Bill. He explored all the edges of design.
05-12-2012 01:21 PM
zeehag
Re: Why a ketch?

bob--i agre withthat--the sloop i was taught to sail as a kid was , when i was small, reported to have been built by herreschoff yard--when i was grown, i learned differently--was designed by clifton crane and built in a yard somewhere in new england.
would be great to actually KNOW who truly DID design garden ketches--and to let the leaky teaky garden ketch/ leaky teaky yacht club know the results--what year was the first one drawn and built?? which yards were used then, and the evolving history of yard usage...mine was built by formosa boat builders...many yards were used and are a few minor differences of no significance added to some. is of great interest to the group.
05-12-2012 01:09 PM
bobperry
Re: Why a ketch?

Zee:
The history of yachts and their designers is very important to me. It's not about "whoever" for me. It's about giving the right designer credit for the boat. Designer's names are often thrown about too carelessly, mine included.
05-12-2012 12:31 PM
zeehag
Re: Why a ketch?

whoever designed the hardinngarde, is an excellent design and works awesome well..
yes i have sailed full keel sloops.a si stated earlier--i will still take a ketch over a sloop, fin or modified fin or full keel.
05-12-2012 12:21 PM
bobperry
Re: Why a ketch?

Zee:
Having spoken to Bill about the Formosa 41 I'm not sure I would give him the design credit for that boat. I think if you do some research on that design you'll find it was drawn by Bill Hardin's son, according to Bill Garden.
05-12-2012 12:20 PM
puddinlegs
Re: Why a ketch?

A full keeled anything tracks well. Sail plans and hull forms work in tandem, not exclusively from each other.
05-12-2012 12:19 PM
Barquito
Re: Why a ketch?

Quote:
sailed all three and i find mine with full keel and sail plan make her MUCH easier to steer--MUCH less weather helm and DOES track better than any sloop or cutter i have sailed in 50+ yrs
Ya-but, as Bob will probably point out in a second, not all ketches have full keels. Any manner of steering and helm could result depending on underbody and rig design.
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