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05-26-2012 06:45 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

Starwind also makes a 19 footer that is a great boat. I liked it so much I sold my Beneteau First 235 so I could buy a Starwind 223. They sail great under main alone, with the fractional rig it really makes the jib easy to deal with without a furler. I would stay away from the "project boats". Within reason of course. If you find a boat that just needs sails or some rigging and the price is discounted enough go for it. I'm pretty handy, and in the past have taken on some projects because I love boats so much. What I find is I waste a lot of prime sailing time working on the boat. You'll pay a premium for a nice boat, but you could pick up a Starwind in great shape for under $5,000. Something with a spinnaker would be good practise. Don't shy away from nice Catalinas, they have a great resource network and tons of aftermarket parts. I also owned a Catalina 27 at one time, worked great for what I needed then. I would say number one criteria, get something that sails nicely that fits what you are using it for. So many people buy a boat to cross oceans when all they do is sail in the bay. I enjoy sailing more and motor less when I'm sailing well.
05-26-2012 03:24 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

Welcome back, Me (it has been years since I was here).

To the OP,

The post below assumes you eventually intend to cruise, if you are just day sailing, ignore it ...

I found that the process that people normally think of 1) come up with a plan, 2) execute the plan, etc, didn't work for me at all. I did not have enough experience to make a plan so ...

For me, I had to experiment. I didn't just get _a_ radio, I've had at least three. I didn't just get _a_ toilet/head, I've had two. I didn't just get _a_ chart table, I've already had five, redesigning each time so that I end up with what I want. "Boat" is a verb, not a noun, it is an activity, one that never ends, and the best advice I can give is to either leave it all to someone else who has a lot of experience and end up with what they want, which is probably pretty close to what you will eventually want, or do what you can to keep your options open so you can change your mind and grow. That means not committing to things you can't change your mind about, keeping access open to electrical conduits, etc, so you can add to and modify systems along the way, and not going out and blowing all your boat bucks on what you think you want at the beginning because then you won't have boat bucks to replace it all when you change your mind later. Try to keep boxes and receipts in order so that you can resell the stuff you decide you don't want later. Believe me, if you are anything like I am you are going to acquire a pile of crap that doesn't work for you that you are going to want to get rid of before you're actually "done" (are you ever really done with a boat ?). So much stuff in boating looks great in theory but in practice is either too poorly made to use or in the end is just completely impractical. Many times the "hard way" ends up being the easy way, and gadgets and gizmo's just take up space and are a PITA to deal with.

The good news is that after you play with all this stuff you eventually do figure out something that works for you, at least I have.

If you have too much energy and want to "jump ahead", my suggestion is learning how to live with what you're going to have on the boat; eating foods that only have ingredients you'll have on the boat, reducing refrigeration space down to what you'll have on the boat (if you even have refrigeration, I don't), changing your water usage to use only what you'll have on the boat, electrical usage, etc. Changing your lifestyle is going to be the biggest, most challenging changes you'll make, and it is those changes in habit that require the most effort, in my experience. Said another way, anyone can learn to anchor or sail, that is the least of it; but not everyone can learn to eat cereal without milk, deal with not having internet access (off-shore, etc), and live without air conditioning on the hook. Goodbye long hot showers, hello cold water and wash rag. I think learning to live in a tent in the middle of the woods would be better "preparation for cruising" than going to the bahamas on a charter, like so many people do.
05-26-2012 12:59 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

I'd be on that '81 Hunter 22 for $895 with trailer that BJ posted... like white on rice.... If... I was after a trailer-sailor...h-22...Thats a good little too...the early 80's Hunters were not junk by a long shot...mostly were good boats...some of the fittings were crap...but no worse than everyone else was using...and most of that needs replaced anyway on a 30-year old boat
05-26-2012 12:25 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

Starwind was not made by Chrysler. Probably the best boat made by Chrysler was the Barracuda, (a 13' board boat similar to a Sunfish). The Starwinds were only produced in the '80's.

Annother good, solid, fast boat is the San Juan 21 MK II also within your towing range.
I had one on a weeks vacation with two adults and two kids on board. A little tight, but it worked.

Also the West Wight Potters are solid little boats.

Lots of boats out there.
05-25-2012 06:51 PM
Me Tarzan
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
If you can find a nice one a Starwind 223 would be a good way to go. It was one of the first boats to take advantage of the 8'6" trailering regulations. Roomy cabin for a 22' boat and fixed keel with a "weightless" centerboard. I had one, it stands up to a healthy breeze, too.
The Starwind looks like a great boat. Lots of great boats in that size I am finding out. I think my dream of finding a garage sailer must come to an end. Too much to miss out on trying to meet the garage criteria. So I made a few calls and found a dry storage place pretty close to home for $25 a month. When I say dry I mean in a grass field, next to a guys house who lives on sight at the storage facility. I can't work on or even wash the boat there but it's just a 20 minute round trip to my driveway. Speaking of my driveway, it is at least a 15 degree incline, so the road out front would have to do. Neighbors going to love me. So lets try this again with a slightly different set of wants and needs.
Length is no longer an issue.
Height is no longer an issue.
Gross weight including trailer is now the biggest issue with 2000 pounds being my legal maximum. My tow vehicle will be a Jeep Wrangler. Funny thing is the 4-door Wranglers have a 3500 towing capacity with same engine. I guess it is the short wheelbase that is killing me. I don't mind going over say 500 lbs as I have done it before in the past with no problems. Just don't want to look obvious driving down the road in a little Jeep pulling a monster boat. I would prefer as much keel as possible, maybe a shoal, would be ok with a swing if the track record was good for the model. Lots to consider now. I guess the Starwind is a Chrysler? Same as auto manufacturer? We had a Chrysler outboard as a kid and it made me paddle in from a couple miles out a couple times so I still have a bad taste in my mouth. Reviews of the boat I found in my quick search were all favorable though...
Thanks again to all who have replied and are helping me along the way.
05-25-2012 05:57 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

If you can find a nice one a Starwind 223 would be a good way to go. It was one of the first boats to take advantage of the 8'6" trailering regulations. Roomy cabin for a 22' boat and fixed keel with a "weightless" centerboard. I had one, it stands up to a healthy breeze, too.
05-25-2012 03:45 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

That's a fat enough budget to get what may be the perfect boat for a trailer-sailor with length limitations:

05-25-2012 01:56 PM
Me Tarzan
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

Originally Posted by bljones View Post
What is your max boat budget?
Would like this first temp boat to be under 5K ready to roll, sail and motor along.
05-25-2012 01:54 PM
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

What is your max boat budget?
05-25-2012 01:25 PM
Me Tarzan
Re: The Chicken or the Eggs?

Originally Posted by dmcMaine View Post
As someone who is shopping right now myself, I'd agree with a waste of capital. What you're most likely to do is buy up a bunch of stuff you won't need, and then have a list of other stuff the boat you eventually buy does need.

I like the suggestions to buy books instead. Seamanship, factual accounts, and even fiction.

Is storing the boat in your garage an actual requirement? Or would on the driveway/next to the garage work just as well? It affects what you end up with.

I'd also recommend this book: The Complete Trailer Sailor: How to Buy, Equip, and Handle Small Cruising Sailboats (9780071472586): Brian Gilbert: Books

The best thing I can say is don't be in a hurry, or try to force anything. The right boat will turn up. Hehe...the first lesson of sailing, take what nature gives you.
Going to order a few books this evening and that will be one. Thanks. As for the garage thing it is pretty much a must. Neighborhood rules and the incline of my driveway prevent other possibilities. I figure what I can afford this go around will need work also. Unless I find a reasonable dry storage marina with a boat that needs little work then garage it must be.
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