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girls and heels

6K views 39 replies 27 participants last post by  arknoah 
#1 ·
Why is it that so many women have such a bad reaction to sailing when the boat starts to heel? Otherwise competent, confident ladies are reduced to nervous wrecks with a 20 degree heel. And of course there are plenty of great women sailors who have no problem with this - so what's your secret lady sailors? And how can I get my wife/daughter/sister/friends to relax and enjoy the ride?
 
#9 ·
Experience. Just give them time and reason enough to trust the boat.
And to this end- sail the boat within the abilities of the crew. There might be good reasons for their nervousness... not that the boat is going to tip over, but that they don't feel they can move around safely, for example.
 
#6 ·
hmmmm.....heeling......I gonna fall on the side of " nervous ladies " on this one . I DO NOT LIKE my boat heeled more then 10-15 degrees . I have had some ugly arguments with guys I've had on my helm . I tell them don't heel the boat more then 10-15 degrees . Next thing you know the rail is in the water . I even show them that with anymore heel on the boat then that you start to lose speed . It defies all logic to me . They don't seem to be happy unless the damn boat is shipping green water . They also don't seem to grasp the difference between making way....& making way nicely . It's happened to me so much on my boat that I've quit being nice about it & go straight to complete ass mode . Too me it's as simple as this....my boat.....I say.....& that's the just the way it is . I don't have to explain when I put someone on my helm about slowing the boat down by heeling it too much . That's just me being nice & them being stupid . I skip that step now . My favorite is being told that the boat creeps up on the wind on it's own . **** me....I wish I was a tree . If the boat would helm itself I wouldn't have anyone at the wheel . Anyway .....that's what I have to say about that . Do a complete victory roll if you want.....just do it on your boat . Go ahead....lay right down & go slower dumb asses !!!!
 
#7 ·
I've found that my gal is much more condoning after a can or two of "liquid courage". I start off as flat as I can and slowly point and trim up to 20 degrees which is about my limit of comfort as well realizing that a sudden gust will bring her back to an upside down grin and start her talking of returning to port.
 
#10 ·
Start her on a Hobie Cat. Worked for me, I don't get edgy til at least 30 degrees of heel. Of course, we go faster with the flying hull just skimming the water.

Joking aside, there's something to be said for having what she's worried about happen or proving that it won't happen. On a dinghy, people are much more comfortable after a few capsizes and recoveries. On a keelboat, you may find that burying the rail and surviving (without any issues or panic) helps sailors be comfortable with 5-10 degree less heel than that. Knowing what it takes to capsize a large dinghy and how it feels before it goes over will also make you aware that at 20 degrees you're nowhere near capsize.

And honestly, if you're not going faster or having more control, why heel more? The right angle of heel depends on your boat but if it's just to feel saltier, maybe she's right. If you're doing any extended cruising, you may want to look into the relationship between degree of heel and crew exhaustion. Turns out that just being heeled for hours can wear people down. The research was done mostly with Navy crew, so it's not just that they weren't tough enough or used to it.
 
#11 ·
Have her drive - you control main to keep the boat flat. Don't heel the boat, you'll go much faster.


In general, whenever there a woman in board I give them the helm as soon a possible. Kids the same.
 
#12 · (Edited)
This topic comes up here at least once a year. There have been articles written about it. I used to teach when I was in a yacht club the wives, SO and GF's the finer points of sailing. For starters women don't like to be put in a situation where we feel we are in harms way. Not feeling secure in our environment and the skipper of the boat telling them "To get over it, the boat is safe" is not the way to win the hearts of their loved one. While burying the rail in the water might be fun, (I do in on many occasions myself) to most women it is not.
When I used to teach, I would have a small box on the dock. I would invite those who want to learn and overcome their fears over to Sundowners. While chatting about this wonderful sport over a few drinks and appetizers I would have all my guest write down on separate piece of paper all their fears. Of course heeling was #1. We would go over each fear with demonstrations, actually equipment use, theory, and a trip to the maintenance yard to see boats out of water.
For the fear of heeling I would use the fat boy on the teeter tatter theory to explain why a keel boat wouldn't tip over. We would than go to the maintenance yard to see, touch and feel the keel (fat boy). We would than talk about the different designs of all the keels and the effects of each in maneuvering the boat and the various characteristics of each keel. For the responder on going to hobbie cat to teach I would highly not recommend this one for the over coming the fear of tipping over. They tip over very easily. After we have discussed each of their fears those pieces of paper would go in the box on the dock. I would than announced when we leave the dock that their fears are left at the dock and let the fun begin.
I would than take the ladies out on the water with the main only explaining everything we do, keeping the boat as flat as possible. I would introduce the jib only when everyone is comfortable with first going downwind, slowly turing the boat to windward through the various points of tack in-between. Even on the reach I would keep the boat no greater than 15 degrees. Of course on most boats this is the efficient heel angle for speed.
The other concern of heeling is feeling secure in the cockpit and down below. On larger sailboats (over 30') there are few places to brace ourselves with our feet or other means. Most of us women have short legs. If we cannot brace ourselves using either the other side of the settee, middle cockpit table, or other bracing devices we will not feel secure. You will have to find a way for us to brace ourselves or we won't go on the boat in the future. For the real skittish person I love the two stern seats found on most production boats. I find these to be the best seats in the house.
Going down below to get refreshments, preparing a meal or using the head I alway suggest either flatting the boat completely by sailing downwind or my favorite heave-to (especially when preparing food) would do wonders in keeping us on board. If not you go down while we take the helm.
Taking the helm is another discussion all together and I will save my rant for a later time.
Hope this helps someone.
 
#13 ·
The analogy that's worked for me in explaining the stability issue is those old inflatable 'punching clowns'.. you know, the ones with the sand bag in the bottom and no matter how hard you hit them they always came back up.

I like the idea of a boatyard tour.. nothing like a visual.

Ironically my wife would rather be beating into 20 knots heeled over than sailing downwind similar conditions - but to be fair to her we've had some serious broaches racing in the past, including one where she managed to break all three of our rules by falling off the boat :eek:

She was a very nervous sailor to start.. it took a lot of patience and practice (and the first coastal cruise) to convince her - she's a trooper and after 30 + years loves cruising and sailing still.
 
#14 ·
The analogy that's worked for me in explaining the stability issue is those old inflatable 'punching clowns'.. you know, the ones with the sand bag in the bottom and no matter how hard you hit them they always came back up.ll.
Analogy of a Fat boy vs a hitting toy, Difference between how men think and how women think. Why I strongly believe women teaching women make the best teachers.
 
#15 ·
Melrna, I am just starting to teach two young girls the ways of a sailboat. they both like the aft seats the best but so does the Admiral when she is not at the helm. she says it is the best place to be when this boats crazy skipper is at the helm. I would love to hear your rant on taking the helm so please rant on.
 
#18 ·
I won't rant tonight however if you are from Dana Point you might know my best friend Kathy at the yacht club there. She can probably tell you in person my rant. Your boat name sound familiar. We might be closer than you think.
 
#16 ·
Mel,

Great feedback - love the concept about seeing the underbody and keel.

Here is a link to a short video of a newbie gal sailing last weekend -


She looks like she is having fun
 
#17 ·
Optimum on my capri 22 seemed to be between 15 and 20 degrees. 32 you are swimming, 28 and your two handed trying to steer downhill. Agreed 10-15 degrees is faster than 20+

The women in my life have adjusted to heel.

PS: I was also disappointed after that topic line.
 
#19 · (Edited)
And I thought this topic was going to be about inappropriate footwear for the inflatable dinghy....

More seriously, my spouse and I watched a very amusing docking where the obviously inexperienced foredeck crew was wearing high heels... skidding around like the scene of Walt Disney's "Bambi" encountering ice for the first time ever.

Back to the original post, I agree that the feeling of being out of control is a bad thing.
 
#23 ·
What helped us was that Jim gave me control of the main sheet. Whenever I felt we were heeling too far, I could let it out until I felt comfortable again. Just having that control helped my comfort level, and by the end of the season last year, I wasn't freaking out at a heel greater than 20 deg. (Didn't like it, but didn't freak out either. lol)
 
#25 ·
This isnt a topic only about girls. I have a stepson who was terrified when the boat first heeled. It was all about not knowing what was OK and what was not. Until he got an explanation and a little experience he didnt know that we werent about to all die. Boys may be more stoic about scary stuff outside of their comfort zone, but like anyone else they need an explanation and to take it in small steps.
 
#26 ·
Great idea working the mainsheet to control heel.

I usually try and give newbies the tiller as soon as sensible ( usually sailing beam reach ) but this is great alternative
 
#27 ·
I addition to all the good advises you got above, I would show them a 'proof' that a keeled boat can't capsize, like the following video:
.
I wouldn't show them a real broach caused by too much sail and wind cause you can't promise you wouldn't be caught in the same situation, but in the above video it is obvious that it was an experiment or a silly mistake.:eek:
Furthermore, the video shows that the boat recovers itself without the help of the crew !
 
#28 ·
I'm a girl. I don't usually wear heels, nor do I like heeling!

10-15 degrees is just fine with me and the boat definitely picks up a ton of speed, 20 is okay, 30 is a lot of work and no fun at all.

I used to race and skinning my knees and getting random bruises from having the rail in the water is one of the reasons I quit. If I'm on a pleasure cruise, I'm perfectly happy to take a broader angle to the wind, go faster, and make nearly as good of time as trying to point higher while heeling an extra 10 degrees.
 
#29 ·
It is interesting that 2 person racing dinghy fleets tend to have nearly 50% women sailors. Lido 14 fleets are an example. The women sailing in Lido 14s tend to be younger.

Also, the Harbor 20 fleets tend to have a high percentage of woman participants. I'd guess 50% women.

Most impressive is the high percentage of woman drivers in Harbor 20s. Between 20-30% of race skippers in Harbor 20s are women.
 
#30 ·
I don'y think you can use these classes as a good example of number of women who sail small racing dingys. the lido and the harbor boats are easier to sail bay boats with less strings which does appeal to more women. the faster new mono's and Cats are a bit much for many women sailors. these two classes are sailed by more women because these boats fit into the classification of Girl boats. fun to sail on occation but not really racing boats to many guys.
 
#31 · (Edited)
i know of at least 2 females who own and sail formosa 41 ketches--there may be more-i havent taken an actual count. some of us even refit ours..... there are many solo female sailors but the males will never know who and or where, as we dont always advertise our whereabouts freely--isnt safe to do this.
i have a female friend sailing her boat from east coast, md, to west coast and is in panama now. there are many of us sailing bigger boats, but there isnt any advertising done -- for our own safety.
there are many dinghy sailorettes, as well.
you male types may wanna re adjust your perspective some before saying where or where not the ladies are located who own and sail boats.
most of the male types i know with boats are bitching because their chosen sugarplum doesnt sail.
i am in la cruz de huanacaxtle, nayarit, mexico , laughing at all of them until they show their faces here.....LOL

as far as racing--many ladies sailing racers....

btw--i could never figger out why a guy chooses a lady then gripes she wont share the dream......why not choose a lady who WANTS same dream?????
 
#32 · (Edited)
Ya know, in all my sailing experience, I've only seen one person on the very edge of a fear driven breakdown on a boat. It was a 230lb male several years ago on a boat with a very poor owner/driver. This thread just hurts my head to read it's so painfully stupid. I guess I've just been really lucky to have sailed with some great women that even as beginners didn't have a problem accepting that sailboats heeled. I'd also suggest that if a boat's passengers are having fear issues, it's because the skipper and crew isn't exhibiting and instilling calm, unwavering, confidence and teaching in a commensurate manner.
 
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