SailNet Community - Reply to Topic

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Skills and Seamanship > Seamanship & Navigation > USCG 2011 Boating Statistics
 Not a Member? 

Seamanship & Navigation Forum devoted to seamanship and navigation topics, including paper and electronic charting tools.


Thread: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics Reply to Thread
Title:
  

By choosing to post the reply below you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

Click here to view the posting rules you are bound to when clicking the
'Submit Reply' button below


Topic Review (Newest First)
06-26-2012 07:21 PM
ccriders
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjango View Post
Yeah....that's what I want.....more government intervention in my life . Guess what.....I don't look to the government to instill safe practices in me or even be responsible for my safety . To the guy that equated it with flying with untrained pilots , I suggest you acquaint yourself with the seven universally recognized logic errors . And if you can't connect up dots any better then that maybe you should avoid boats as well.....just sayin
Hate to say it, but that statement is nothing more than a "sweeping gerneralization falacy" Government has institutionalized safe handling practices in almost every human endeavor and those practices have been instilled into your psyche at school, at home and at work and in every product in the marketplace. From the toilet to the daily commute, governments have instilled safety practices from which you benefit.
As regards boating education, training and licensing, governments and NGAs have done much good. Even the Coast Guard publishing of accident statistics works to our benefit. Knowledge is power after all. My critique focused on do nothing programs that create the facade of reducing accidents and are not sufficiently comprehensive to accomplish the goal. Pilot education, training and licensing is pretty much a pinacle program of the Federal Government in this regard, and is closely equivalent to the Coast Guard Captain's education, training and licensing program. But how do you expand and apply that kind of program to recreational boaters? There are many interest groups that will fight to the death to stop any such development.
So, I truly want the government to continue developing safety practices, to publish safety statistics and to enforce safety laws so that serious, motivated and interested parties can institutionalize safety practices at every level of our sport and life style. Just think about all the safety engineering that exists in a modern boat and crew and compare that to the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria.
Just sayin....(whatever that means)
06-26-2012 06:33 PM
MarkSF
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Erm OK, guess you've definitely won that argument.
06-26-2012 06:21 PM
kjango
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Yeah....that's what I want.....more government intervention in my life . Guess what.....I don't look to the government to instill safe practices in me or even be responsible for my safety . To the guy that equated it with flying with untrained pilots , I suggest you acquaint yourself with the seven universally recognized logic errors . And if you can't connect up dots any better then that maybe you should avoid boats as well.....just sayin
06-24-2012 08:14 PM
jackdale
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
Nice summation! Tea Party 101. I've always thought that some level of tax, title, license bought a certain amount of civilization. Guess I'm a commie after all.
I like to pay taxes. With them I buy civilization. ~Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., quoted by Felix Frankfurter, The Atlantic Monthly, October 1938
06-24-2012 12:33 AM
puddinlegs
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
This is counter-intuitive. How could training NOT improve safety? Presumably to get a license you'd have to do be trained to a certain level.

Next time you fly with an airline, why don't you have one of those untrained, unlicensed pilots fly the plane. I'm sure they'll figure it out on the way, no problem. According to your argument, the entire FAA is just there to empty pilot's wallets.

Nice summation! Tea Party 101. I've always thought that some level of tax, title, license bought a certain amount of civilization. Guess I'm a commie after all.
06-24-2012 12:08 AM
rgscpat
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

If you go into the detailed tables in the accident report, you can get a few morsels of info about sailboats. The best I can get out of that is this is that sailors need to stay on board.
06-23-2012 01:42 AM
jackdale
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Dean Instruction = learning from others experience. Expereince = learning from your mistakes. Success teachs nothing.

The ROI comes from less damage and wear and tear on your boat and crew.

I would like to see personal responsibility, I just too see too many incidents where it is sadly lacking. Like most laws, they are aimed at a minority.
06-21-2012 09:34 PM
Dean101
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
This is interesting, an argument in favour in boating instruction.



Just slightly over 1% of accidents involved sailboats. Almost 50% were open motorboats.

Must reading.
Jackdale, I didn't read the word "license" anywhere in your original comment so I'm not sure how that got started. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you were hinting at the wisdom of learning how to safely operate a boat from an experienced source prior to just "heading out" on the water. To be honest, I've been straddling the fence on whether or not to take classes. They can tally up to quite a bit of dollars. I'm not so concerned about splitting hairs here, but it definitely looks like there is some return on the investment. Ditto X2 on wearing life jackets.

I don't want to see government step in and tighten their grip on boaters but I would like to see more personal responsibility displayed in a voluntary manner. Whether a person gets instruction through a school, by boating with someone more experienced for awhile, or some combination of the two (this was my plan), the skipper absolutely needs to know how to keep him/herself and crew safe as well as others around them. In order to do that, IMHO, that means knowing what you're doing. I must agree with you that these statistics give instruction a favorable mark.
06-21-2012 09:21 PM
peikenberry
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

The best, truest measure of risk is the length of exposure to that risk. So If we could actually measure how many hours people are on the water and devise some way of rating the exposure to risk, then we would have a good measure. But risk is different for a sailboat than it is for a PWC, or a ski-boat, or a large motor yacht. So this is not a viable means when talking about boats. So for years it was based on accidents and fatalities per 100,000 boats, which is really not a very good measure. In the early 2000's the USCg started using a risk based measure but again it based on how many boats and how many people and so on. The model used is better than before but it still needs better data on actual exposure hours.

Training is definitely the way to go, and as was said most of us old fa..s got it at the hands of our fathers or grandfathers, and got a good chewing out if we made a mistake. That is not the case anymore. There are a lot of people buying boats, and the closest they have ever been to the water is the local swimming pool. They buy the sales pitch that you can just fire up and go.

This is not necessarily true on the sailboat side. Most people who buy sailboats have started out young and learned in dinghies.

And yes, actual hands on training, operating a boat, being required to navigate from one place to another, and showing that you know how your boat handles are the ideal. But this is not politically acceptable. It took the USCG over twenty years just to get the states to buy in to making people pass a test. Have you taken the test? I took Washington's test without any prior study, or even looking at their boating handbook, and missed 2 questions, both dealing with local regulations. The kind of stuff you need to read the states booklet to find out. If someone cannot pass this test they have no business being on the water, it's so simple.

Adding a hands on test would really be a hurdle. Have any of you taken a driving test or had a son or daughter take the test recently? Even these are so elementary it's pathetic. When my son took his hands on driving test in Maryland, he never had to take the car out of the parking lot. He showed he could start the car, maneuver around some cones, and back into a parking spot. What about traffic? nothing.

Would a test like that add any to the safety of boating? I doubt it. SO until some one comes up with a way to test someone, using the type of boat they own, then it will be worthless. Perhaps some kind of computer simulation that could simulate different types of boats, and different conditions (Lakes, rivers, sounds, ocean) then that might be useful.
06-21-2012 08:10 PM
Minnewaska
Re: USCG 2011 Boating Statistics

The more I think about it, the more I think that any training requirement should focus on whether you are a danger to others, more than yourself. I don't think we should regulate the risk an adult decided to take on for themselves. However, having passengers is different.

I wonder if there is any way to narrow down the stats to how may passengers are hurt.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:57 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.