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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing > Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race
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Topic Review (Newest First)
07-11-2012 08:21 AM
BubbleheadMd
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Ha, that's pretty interesting, Puddin.
07-10-2012 12:57 PM
puddinlegs
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Puddinlegs has good advice. Rich's boat has the mainsheet behind the wheel so that means weight aft is a reality. You can't drive and trim main at the same time.

Check the SIs - some clubs don't like roll tacking. Get the tack itself right first before you add things like roll tacking.
All the more reason for the driver and everyone else to be forward and/or out of the cockpit. Bubble, on a trivia note, Brian Hutchinson who built the molds for the melges 24 and still coaches and makes go fast parts for them got his start on a P 30. Definitely a great old boat!
07-10-2012 10:16 AM
puddinlegs
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
So you sailed, it was warm, you had beers at the end. It sounds like a success to me!
You'd like to hope it'd be that simple but it's not unfortunately. Speaking only for myself while guessing bubble's in the same boat (pardon the pun), I like to feel that we've at least sailed well and that we aren't our our worst enemy, sunny weather or not. If it was only about being out, there'd be no point in all the effort it takes to prep a boat, get crew together, etc... and I'd just go for an after work cruise... Which we do on other days as well.
07-10-2012 07:43 AM
SVAuspicious
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
If he has a wheel, what would it take to convert it back to a tiller?
I misspoke - it is a tiller. I thought tiller and typed wheel. *sigh* It's a dumbo on my part.
07-10-2012 04:49 AM
sww914
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

So you sailed, it was warm, you had beers at the end. It sounds like a success to me!
07-10-2012 02:33 AM
puddinlegs
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

If he has a wheel, what would it take to convert it back to a tiller? If I remember correctly, the P30 was a tiller boat originally, no? It'd be well worth the 75$ for the piece of wood for sure, and have the huge benefit of actually being able to 'feel' the boat.

I feel your pain on the beer cans though Bubble. We went from 2nd in our series and only needed to finish mid pack to have 2nd or 3rd overall. 2 no shows, regular crew out on Vic Maui,weddings out east, etc... Pooch screwed, pups will be for sale shortly. Ironically, we had 3 bow people on the boat and no regular trimmers. All the bad stuff happened in front of the mast. Oh well. That's why it's best not to get too caught up in weekday racing results. In the end, sailboat racing after work is a luxury and kind of a crap shoot.
07-09-2012 08:54 PM
SVAuspicious
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Puddinlegs has good advice. Rich's boat has the mainsheet behind the wheel so that means weight aft is a reality. You can't drive and trim main at the same time.

Check the SIs - some clubs don't like roll tacking. Get the tack itself right first before you add things like roll tacking.
07-09-2012 08:11 PM
puddinlegs
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Bubble, apologies. I was assuming since you said 'pit' you had a pit. Inexperienced crew, always have them check each other's work. Your mast/pit and bow should be a team... what happens up there stays up there if they're working well together.

Honestly, don't cull your crew just yet. In the fall you'll be glad you've got 8. For beer cans, dial down things just a bit and focus on good clean sailing (driving/trim) and boat handling. Sure, for more 'important' races, you just say I'm taking ____, and I've got three slots open. First come, first served. This assumes that you've got two or three regulars who you really need on the boat of course. Sounds like you do need a new sail though, or at least a better one.

Keeping bodies out of the cockpit in light air, if you can reach it, you do the jib sheet release. Have your lightest most competent trimmer finish the tack. Main trimmer should cross as far forward in the cockpit as possible, everyone else is out and where they need to be to roll tack the boat. Extend your tiller and sit to leeward and as far forward as you can yourself. If your crew doesn't know what a roll tack is, then sail by some competitive lasers, etc... that are out. It'll be crystal clear what the goal and timing are.

Movement on deck is at an absolute minimum, and silence is golden. Sure, talking very softly to each other on the leeward rail is fine, but if I can hear it enough to make out the conversation, it's too loud. Set up for spin hoists, douses, etc... happens deliberately and slowly, timed with being on the correct tack. Do as much as possible on the rail (pre-feeding the guy and the like) If you can't get the pole up without moving the boat around, just hoist the kite using a human guy, then get the pole on.

Nothing needs to happen quickly. Usually inexperienced crew makes the mistake of doing things much too fast in light air. Think more 'slo-mo ballet', and remind them to slow down, particularly during gybes. Only roll tacking is done quick'ish. Have someone count it down so everyone move across the boat at once... quickly, smoothly. Loosen, up, go bow down. The jib trimmer is absolutely driving the boat. Sail a bit fat. If you get a lift, the trimmer eases a bit to match the lift and let the boat accelerate, then head up and let the trimmer slowly work it in. They'll tell you when to stop. Conversely, in a header, the trimmer sheets in a wee while you head down, then he/she eases a bit. They should be telling you if there's any pressure on the sail, and to 'head up' or 'down' as necessary. Same with the spin. If you're trying to make it all work by your driving, it's nearly impossible to sail effectively in the light stuff.

I'm sure you know all this stuff. Somedays we nail it and make the boat go like hell in light air. Other days we're just a bit off. Interestingly enough, there are still very few surprises on the winner's list, light air or heavy. Often as not, it's the same sailors.
07-09-2012 03:03 PM
SVAuspicious
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Easing the spinnaker halyard and foreguy can help on some boats in very light air, moving the projected area forward and clearing more from behind the main. 2' is a LOT though.

I think your foredeck person can be the second set of eyes to make sure the spinnaker halyard is two-blocked. Check and check again. Everyone supports everyone. Even rail meat should be looking around for what isn't right and asking questions. That's where your next generation of grinders and trimmers come from.

Your crew members that I met have really good potential. Y'all can do this.

Get that steering tightened up and invest time in your crew. You'll move up in the fleet.
07-09-2012 02:03 PM
BubbleheadMd
Re: Trimming "Zero"- Poplar Island Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
Poor pit guy/gal. It's not their issue. Why isn't someone jumping the halyard at the mast? It's their job to both jump and call it made. The pit should only be tailing whatever's going up and adjusting tension to jib and main halyards. In really light air, having your kite a foot short of a full hoist isn't a bad thing at all.

Soooo, if it's super light a la almost no wind at all, you can hoist a very light spin sometimes and be able to sail just about as high and effectively as a light #1.. Of course, a drifter is the weapon of choice if you have one.
My mast and pit are the same position.

I don't have the usual "keyboard" of line clutches arrayed around the companionway, with secondary winches. All halyards, pole lift, clutches and cleats are at the mast.

I realize that this isn't conventional, but I'm modeling it after a successful J35 that I sailed on. I've already got too many people in the cockpit, and this gets at least one person out from underfoot.

The mast/pit man did jump the halyard, he just failed to raise it fully. He has mast winches and Spinlock clutches at his disposal to get the job done.
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