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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing > new 120% genoa
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-13-2012 11:19 PM
SchockT
Re: new 120% genoa

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfdubu View Post
Well, I sort of race. But with hot and cold pressure water and a shower, 4 fairly comfortable berths and the dreaded roller furling on a 28.5' boat I'm a cruiser/wannabe racer.

Did I mention dacron sails?
Fair enough! At least you're out there! You just have to live with the leech problem!

Hot and cold running water...the wife keeps talking about stuff like that...
09-13-2012 05:35 PM
jfdubu
Re: new 120% genoa

Well, I sort of race. But with hot and cold pressure water and a shower, 4 fairly comfortable berths and the dreaded roller furling on a 28.5' boat I'm a cruiser/wannabe racer.

Did I mention dacron sails?
09-13-2012 05:06 PM
SchockT
Re: new 120% genoa

Ah. A UV cover! Not the best thing for sail shape! That is likely the culprit. They are fine for cruisers that can't be bothered taking their sail down all season, but they have no place on a race boat!
09-13-2012 01:28 PM
jfdubu
Re: new 120% genoa

Schock,

I pactically use a micrometer to tune the mast and I've re-tuned several times. Always the same. My guess is it has to do with the way the uv cover is sewn on some how tensions the leech more on one side whether it's in tension or compression.
09-11-2012 02:05 PM
SchockT
Re: new 120% genoa

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfdubu View Post

Funny thing about leech curl, I constantly battle leech curl on a port tack, no problem on starboard. Haven't figured out why, I just send a guy down to adjust the leech line.

John W.
It is strange that you have more leech tention on one tack. Have you checked your mast tune? Perhaps the tip is falling off to leeward more on one tack?
09-11-2012 01:29 PM
jfdubu
Re: new 120% genoa

John F, My 4 cents.

7 years ago I was faced with the exact same question. New boat (to me) bag of rags for sails, desire for beer can and some club racing and Narragansett bay area cruising.

I bought a new dacron main, higher level fabric from an off shore source and the following year again a high quality dacron 135% jib, sourced offshore.

What I got were and still are very good working sails. I still win an occasional race and are always competitive. I make far more tactical and brain fart mistakes that faster sails would not correct.

That being said, Don't do what I did. Get the dacron sails but get them from a local loft. Make sure they come with check out from the sailmaker so you can learn from him/her how the sail is supposed to look and be trimmed at differant points of sail. You can gain a weath of knowledge that way not to mention having a service outlet should problems arise. The little bit extra you pay will be worth it.

Funny thing about leech curl, I constantly battle leech curl on a port tack, no problem on starboard. Haven't figured out why, I just send a guy down to adjust the leech line.

John W.
09-11-2012 01:02 PM
CBinRI
Re: new 120% genoa

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonosail View Post
Rated LPG makes a BIG difference in PHRF racing. (especially for boats of moderate disp.)
Every district has a different 'datum' for the standard rating.
Many start from 155% of LP.
So it would be something like the following: (rating based on LARGEST sail in your inventory)
155% no change std rating
145% (+3)
135% (+5)
125% (+7)
etc.......... (some other factors I've left out)
In a long skinny boat, like this one, with a small foretriangle to begin with, overlap means speed upwind.
You want to at least think this through before you send big money on a headsail.
(I'm not selling sails.).
Just something to consider.
I bought a racing jib three or four years back. We went with kevlar, and did much better racing than we had with dacron. And although it is startingto show its age, it has held its shape much better than our last dacron jib. we do not use it cruising.

As to size, you should consider the prevailing conditions in your area. Because we sail in Narragansett Bay (where the winds are pretty consistent), we went for a 145 and got the three point PHRF credit (we think this worked out well for us). If you are in the Long Island Sound or an area where the winds are generally lighter, you may want to go for the full 155.
09-11-2012 09:54 AM
Sanduskysailor
Re: new 120% genoa

The credits for smaller headsails are just that, credits not true rating adjustments based on real performance. The A33 has a SA/D of 20.3 which is pretty good. The determining factor should be the average wind conditions in your area. If the wind, on average, is 10 knots or less go with the 155%. If the wind averages higher than that go with the smaller headsail and get the credit. The sail prices you mentioned seem about right although there are some less expensive alternatives across the border. I got a 155% Twaron (Kevlar) for less than $2,000 made with Dimension Flex cloth. The sail was made in the US.
09-10-2012 01:00 PM
blt2ski
Re: new 120% genoa

I have a 110 made of North Nor-lam, got maybe 4 season out of it, very few miles/races! In the mean time, my 155 is an ullman fiberpath, not sure how many miles. tacks, racs etc, still pulling very well at 3 yrs.

Personally, some of the laminates are less than 20% more compared to woven, the performance parts last longer etc. so why not spend the difference. Along with true laminate's will not stretch in equal or the upper range of a given sail, so you do not heel or loose speed as much.

My def of true laminates would be my fiberpath, 3dl, Ullmans CAL, some of the mylar with carbon or other scrim in the middle. The norlam while a laminate, it is still mostly dacron.

As mentioned, which sail size to choose will depend. I have a code 2 ie small spin, I get a 9 sec credit for it, yeah it is 600#vs my 155 at 345. but going downwind wing on wing with the 155, I seem to go faster than the smallish cruise spin I have. SO while I am 9 secs slower in rating, I go about the same speed. So going with a smaller sail in this case, has no advantage.

Same as a folding vs nonfolding prop. Locally you get 9 secs for a fixed 2 blade vs a folder. One goes MORE than 9 secs a mile faster with a folder than a fixed, Even the Campbell. So if one is wanting to race reasonably competitive, one needs a folding prop vs a fixed.

Yesterday the wind was in the 10-20 range, initially, so we thru up a 140 vs 155, we still did 7+ down wind a few time, beat boats rated upwards of 15 secs faster in our division etc. Once the wind calmed down to the 15 knot range, the 155 went up, gained the lost 1/4 to 1/2 knot as the wind died. A 110 would have been slower yet as the wind went down!

Marty
09-10-2012 12:29 PM
zz4gta
Re: new 120% genoa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweegs View Post
The carbon fiber sails were pushing 8 grand each and expected to only last up to 5 years. Strong and light weight, but degrade quickly…don’t leave them out in the sun.
"It is naturally black in color and is essentially unaffected by UV exposure."
Doyle Sailmakers: Fiber Guide

Carbon is great in the sun. No worries. What it doesn't like is bending. Carbon is brittle. It's all a trade off.
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