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My Boat was Hit Bad

24K views 131 replies 49 participants last post by  Agri 
#1 · (Edited)
Today, while I was ashore and my boat at anchor, my beloved 30 foot Islander was struck on the port side cabin by a 30 powerboat, leaving a gaping hole in the top cabin. The hit ripped a stanchion from the deck, taking the wood core with it. The top cabin has a wide hole, fiberglass and wood from the interior of the boat, splintered everywhere. I've already had the police out to file a formal report, and the officer talked to the other boater. Tomorrow I'll talk with the insurance company of the person who hit my boat. My plan is to have the boat surveyed immediately, determine if the damage is a.)repairable b.)if the boat is safe to be motored or towed to a yard, or c.)whether the cost of repair exceeds the value of the boat.

The horrible issue to all of this is that I LIVE aboard my boat. I have no experience with this at all and educated advice is welcomed. A google search on what to do when a boat's been hit, returned articles on boating accidents. I'd appreciate stories from people who've been in a similar situation.

The good news is the other boater has insurance and has already contacted their company. There was no hit and run. Right now I'm at a loss, as my beloved boat has been terribly damaged.

Advice? Tips?
 

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#2 ·
condolences. good luck with the insurance rep.

having had this experience with non-boat vehicles, you should of course talk to your insurance rep as well to find out what your options are, esp wrt living costs during repair and stuff.

dont trust the other persons insurance rep.

you prob already know that, but im just sayin.
 
#3 ·
Whatever you do, don't take anything from the other guy's insurance until you have an estimate from someone you hire (your surveyor, your boatyard). Be particularly leery if the adjuster offers to settle with you right now, based on little more than his/her eyeballing the damage. Like groggy said, "dont trust the other persons insurance rep." A surveyor will give you a ballpark estimate, a boatyard will (probably) give you a much better estimate (although a good surveyor will consult with a boatyard when s/he writes up an estimate of the repairs).
 
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#4 ·
You might want a marine liability lawyer to negotiate your side. Issues can come up from left field, like the other party arguing you were anchored in a navigable channel or that your anchor dragged or some other way to negate your claim. Obviously you'll need a place to stay while repairs or a replacement vessel can be accomplished and insurance companies frown at liveaboards so negotiations will have to be delicate and finessed by a professional. Keep in mind almost anything can be repaired and while a huge inconvenience, there's always a lesson learned. The damage doesn't look as bad as it feels and can be fixed, but get a couple of yards to estimate the damage, don't rely on insurance companies to be looking out for you. Good luck on the repairs and hang in there, all will be well.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Just went through this myself but here in Oz. First thing contact your insurance tell them what happened ASAP and inform them, you are going to claim on the other party's insurance (this covers you, should the other party's insurer tries to weasel out) If you don't have insurance (which is my guess), what ever you do do not tell their insurer this ( as I use an offshore company I would loose some of my no claim bonus so it was not a fib in my case, but the other party insurer did query why I was not using my insurer) Get 2 independent quotes from the best ship rites in your area and a quote from 2 nice motels ( mine offered a flat nightly rate for accommodation). I did not get a survey as I trusted the ship rite and my own observation and experience. Good luck.
This was what I had to contend with http://svgoodonya.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/what-day.html
 
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#68 · (Edited)
Just went through this myself but here in Oz. First thing contact your insurance tell them what happened ASAP and inform them, you are going to claim on the other party's insurance (this covers you, should the other party's insurer tries to weasel out) If you don't have insurance (which is my guess), what ever you do do not tell their insurer this ( as I use an offshore company I would loose some of my no claim bonus so it was not a fib in my case, but the other party insurer did query why I was not using my insurer) Get 2 independent quotes from the best ship rites in your area and a quote from 2 nice motels ( mine offered a flat nightly rate for accommodation). I did not get a survey as I trusted the ship rite and my own observation and experience. Good luck.
This was what I had to contend with S.V. GOODONYA: WHAT A DAY!
Simon, I've only just seen this. Good heavens and thanks be that you are both OK. W saw your post yesterday and told me about it. I think I'm in as much shock as you were back then. What is your situation now ?

Regards

Andrew

ps - just finished reading the blog ... all is good and you seem to be getting by .... cheers to you both. ab.
 
#8 ·
I am glad you were ashore when this happened. Boats can be fixed. You have to be thankful that you were not injured (guessing a lawyer would disagree) but I am talking about bodily! I agree with getting your own survey and I would try to get those costs covered as well. Best of luck.
 
#9 ·
Sorry to hear about your accident. I agree about calling your insurance agent. Let them look out for you. Repairing your boat properly is in their best interest.

That actually does not look too bad although it is gut wrenching. I had a launch hit and crack the gelcoat on our home and it still makes me sick to think about it.

It should be safe to move but do not do so until a surveyor has a look. Get some metal duct tape and some thick plastic to seal up the boat asap to prevent further damage from weather.

Good luck and keep us in the loop on how this progresses. Hopefully you have some friends to stay with. If you were in Maine, my wife and I would gladly host you and Riley. Our Shamus would enjoy having a friend to hang out with.
 
#10 ·
Yikes!!

Others have given you more specific suggestions, I'd add: don't do any "fixing" until you have survey and damage estimates, but you can stabilize the situation - for example, tarp over that hole before your Pacific NW rains ruin the interior.
 
#11 ·
CK,

Sorry to see the damage to your boat (your home!). Marine insurance varies country to country. Might be worth paying a limited amount for legal advice, given that you live in litigacious USA. When my neighbor's boat dragged and hit my boat in a storm, we both reported it to our insurance companies, which turned out to be the same company. Although both boats were repaired satisfactorily, the insurance company said the blame was shared and wanted both of us to pay deductables. Fortunately my neighbor is a good guy and paid my deductable out of his own pocket. You are right to go after the power boater's insurance company. If you involve your insurance company, make sure that they know you are exercising your "right of subrogation" to go after the other party for full damages. Good luck. Hope you have a speedy resoution.
 
#13 ·
My boat was hit but only received cosmetic damage. Still the cost to repair was staggering. Nearly covered what I paid for the boat. It was my insurance that paid as it was considered an "act of God" (another boat broke free of it's mooring during a storm).

You don't say what state you live in or type/age of boat. If you are in New England, I'm guessing the cost to repair is going to be high, there could be a wait and your boat might have to be moved inside for the winter to get it done.

DO NOT go with anyone but the best for your estimate and repairs. This has to be done right the first time. Mentally prepare yourself for the damage to surpass the value of the boat.
 
#14 ·
Keep a DAILY written log of ALL YOUR ACTIVITIES related to the accident with a column for the costs AND KEEP RECEIPTS. TAKE PICTURES>

Assume that in 13 months time the other insurance company is going to try and weasel out of paying the claim or related costs. Having a contemporaneous record of your activities will be 85% of the battle.

Hope your baby is restored to health in a hurry!

Fellow full time liveaboard.
 
#15 ·
1972 Islander MK II is a nice boat. The interior is nicely done. Sorry to hear that this happened to you. Be grateful no one was injured.
As a previous poster has said, "Mentally prepare yourself for the damage to surpass the value of the boat."
 
#16 ·
I see now that it's a '72 Islander. Start deciding now if you can figure out a way to do the repairs yourself or do you know someone who can help you... IF the insurance company will pay you for the boat then allow you to buy it back for less than $1000.

From the picture I can see some hull to deck joint damage... that will probably total it or repairs (even if you buy the boat back and do them yourself) will be costly and messy.

If you plan on continuing to live aboard, prepare to walk away and start shopping for another boat.

If you plan on walking away, start by getting everything that is not bolted down off the boat before you sign anything. Remove any electronics that are worth saving and moving to your next boat. The insurance company will probably only give you what the book value is.

1978 Islander Price, 1978 Islander Value & Used 1978 Islander Specs | NADAguides | NADA Marine Appraisal Guides
 
#17 ·
Wow, thanks for all the advice, guys.

I do have a witness to the accident, but let me give you the bullet points.

Accident happened around 3:30 while I was ashore, and thank goodness for that. The boat was hit so hard I could've been seriously injured.

The powerboater left a note in my cockpit acknowledging that he hit me, saying he lost control of one of his engines. He later said his transmission went out. I'm not sure what happened, but the witness said the boater collided into Libby under great power while trying to anchor and hit me more than once and pushed the boat. My boat was securely anchored and thus didn't give. She was and still is well out of the traffic lanes. This happened in Liberty Bay, which is one of the largest anchorages in the PNW. Both the police officer and I questioned how anyone could be struck in such a large anchorage. Whether it was the boater's transmission, engine control loss, or something else, I'm going to leave the investigation up to the police.

I've taken pictures of the hole, both from the inside and the outside. The boater and his wife came over later, as I was in a stake of shock and panic, and wrapped up the area with plastic wrap and duct tape.

I don't want to get into too many specifics regards the boater's identity or type of boat, but the boat was a powerful one and hit me hard. His insurance is BoatUS, so I'm hopeful. I've mentally prepared that the costs of repair may exceed the purchase price of the boat, but that's also a bummer. The boats on the market today, in my area and my price range, don't come close to my Libby. I got her for a great deal. Right now I'm gathering as much advice and information as I can before taking action.

Thank you all so much for the offers of help and advice, and I appreciate the referrals to reputable shipwrights and boatyards in the Pacific Northwest.
 
#18 ·
Typically, if the estimated cost of repairs is greater then 50% of the boats insured value, the insurance co. will deem it a Constructive (?) Total Loss, or CTL. If they deem it a CTL then they would pay you the insured value of your boat - but they will then own your boat. This is why some have mentioned 'buying your boat back' from the insurer for, say, $1000. You would then use the remainder of the claim money to repair your boat, or, take the entire claim and buy a new boat (leaving your damaged boat as property of Boat US).
My boat was badly damaged from running away from her mooring in a storm. It was declared a 'CTL'. We bought it back for $800 and took the remainder of the money to repair and replace the damages. The following year we were NOT able to get insurance from any provider because of the 'CTL' (Boat US dropped us like a hot potato). One of their up front 'red flag' questions when you apply for a marine policy is "Have you incurred a CTL within the last 3 years?".
I'm not sure how this will work out for you as Boat US is the insurer of another boater who was at fault.
My point is that you need to be a bit careful here. Padding the repair estimate can back fire on you if you subsequently can't get insurance because of another persons mistake. If the repair estimate is less than 50% of the boats value you should be ok. I strongly urge you to contact your insurer to find out what your options are.

Pictures often don't do justice in this case but the damage you incurred is repairable to a like new condition. Off the top of my head I'd guess that the materials for the repair should not cost more then $1K but the labor rate can be quite high and add up quickly.

You might want to talk to Charles Bagget: Baggett and Sons Marine Restoration
 
#20 · (Edited)
I second the vote for Baggett and Sons, they will only take on a job if they can to do top notch work, and they are less expensive than most boat yards as they have fairly recently just started the company. I am sure he would give honest advice and if he does not want to do the work, he will surely send you in the right direction. I don't know him personally, but have seen his work and it is top notch.

Glad no one was hurt! (even the power boater) Injuries can really ramp up the situation as liability can be much bigger. Plus we never want to see one of our members get injured.
 
#21 ·
Agreed, it's easier to fix or God forbid replace a boat than a person.

Hard to tell from the picture. Was she damaged at the hull/deck joint?
 
#22 ·
You have been given lots of advise, which all seems good. Unfortunately everyone is avoiding another issue. My wife is a practicing clinical psychologist, and I have spent more nights than I care to remember in emergency rooms. What follows is hard won experience.
Your home was invaded and smashed. Fortunately by someone willing to take responsibility for his actions, but your home, your precious space was invaded. Not just your home space, but your personal space was violated. Your space, and you, have been violated. That is a four letter word.
If you are not really angry about it, you will be, and should be. The literature is replete with articles showing that when one's home is invaded, there is a sense that one's persona has been violated.
Every time you have to deal with the situation you will be reminded of the injury to your property, and also to you, and the knife will be twisted in your wound.
Therefore get a personal representative to take the matter off your hands and deal with it so you do not have to have your face rubbed in having been violated at every turn. In this day and age that means a lawyer. One who will represent you fairly, without being vindictive. If you are vindictive, you will not feel good about yourself. So demand what is appropriate for you, not a jot less, and not a jot more.
You are entitled to be made whole again. That does not mean camping out in miserable living circumstances while some idiot debates whether they will use widgets or wadgets to repair the wangedo. That means being treated like the lady you so obviously are.
Please practice in front of a mirror drawing yourself up to your full imperial height, looking down your nose at the *** before you and declaiming "There are some questions a GENTLEMAN never asks a LADY." Instruct your lawyer to interject , if an answer is demanded, "Oh, so now we have established you are not a gentleman." Quietly.
If you are not angry, you should be. Anger requires some physical release. Go out and crew on every possible beer can race series. (Anybody out there ready to help a fellow sailor?) And talk talk talk to all your friends about the accident. Talk brings release.
And finally, and probably most importantly, although I do not know you, from you postings I have a sense of the sort of person you are. You are obviously real quality. I would be pleasured to know you, and honored to call you friend. I hope others will join me in this.
 
#24 ·
You can fix it and it's safe to move it. I rammed the hell out of my 40 foot dive boat backing in to a cement dock when the gear shift broke. Did way more damage. You can cut a boat in half and glass it back together. Get some plastic and duck tape for now...and get more money than it actually cost's to fix and take your self out on the town for your trouble.
 
#26 ·
dongreerps and all,
When I first saw the damage, I was horrorstruck, because yes, this is my home, and yes, I love this boat. I named her after a character from my novel, so to me, Libby the boat has ties to Libby the character. She's "the instigator of all things brave." When I saw the hole in her, my heart broke. My home, my baby, my princess, my preciousness. I've put work into her, and working on a boat equals loving a boat. I've sailed her solo. She and I have a relationship. Of course I know she's an inatimate object, but she doesn't feel that way. We take care of each other. Right now, my biggest goal, what's keeping my mind abuzz, is making her well again.

I've been working on getting all of this sorted out ever since, talking about it a lot. Yesterday afternoon I nursed a terrible headache, was tense all night long, and stressing out, mostly because I'm not sure what's going to happen next and because my home was violated. There's a hole in my bedroom. I've gotten onto the phone with the insurance company and have gotten the proverbial ball moving. Their surveyor came out today, the boat yard rep is coming out tomorrow at 0700 for a repair estimate. My body is showing signs of stress and I'm listening. You'll be pleased to know that I'm an avid kick boxer. I missed class last night and this morning, but I'll go tomorrow night to relieve some of the tension. I'll also go for a brisk walk this evening to help flush some of these emotions out of me. Exercise is great and I believe in its healing powers.

Right now I'm still in the state of busyness, trying to make it all okay again, collecting facts, numbers, and recording every single thing that happens during this process. I've had people in the sailing community offer their help, in addition to the abundance of great advice. For right now, I'm okay, but as you know, these sorts of things have a delayed reaction. My mom is constantly checking in to make sure I'm handling it. Stress takes its toll, and I'm monitoring myself closely.

I started this thread last night, and this morning before talking to anyone, I read everyone's responses. I'm doing everything I can to ensure I'm doing this right. Libby isn't just a toy to me, she's my home, my gateway to adventure, and part of my identity. I have treated the situation urgently, and so far the insurance company has complied and worked with me. I'm trying to stay as levelheaded as I can.

I'm so thankful for the sailing community. You guys rock my toe-socks. I'll know more about what's going to happen tomorrow morning when I get a rough cost estimate, but won't know what will happen for sure until the insurance company gives the repair a yay or nay vote. I'm hoping and praying for the best, whatever the best is.
 
#28 · (Edited)
ck, don't wait, ask that client now. Better to be armed in advance.

"Typically, if the estimated cost of repairs is greater then 50% of the boats insured value, the insurance co. will deem it a Constructive (?) Total Loss, or CTL." Caleb makes a point BUT I believe that only applies to your own insurer, as a matter of policy statement. In this case, the other guy's policy doesn't matter, he damaged your boat and home, and it is usual under liability law that the damaged party must be "made whole" again. Whether his policy has limits is not your concern right now. If they don't want to fix it, tell 'em to replace it, and to of course put you up in a decent local hotel while they're waiting to find the replacement vessel. Ka-ching, they'll quickly figure out it is cheaper to pay for the repairs.

Insurers are also very good at playing "Yeahwell its only worth five thousand that's the local sales prices" but often, their math is creative. If they try to quote you a price--tell them to substantiate that, in writing, with specific detail and condition, in accord with insurance law. Which often requires 'comparable' or 'market' pricing to be defined within fairly tight limits. Odds are, no boat substantially similar to yours has been sold within those time limits, geographic limits, etc. so the insurer's valuation is often a simple lie.

Call the county or state insurance commission, tell them what happened, and ask if there is anything you should be aware of. Including any citations for statutes that DO define those valuation terms. Usually those departments are very good at telling consumers what the laws actually are and what your rights are, while insurance companies tend to lie through their teeth about it.

If an insurer tells you "well that's the way it is" and you can reply "No, I've spoken to the insurance commission and they think otherwise" you tend to get paid better and faster, because the insurer can't pull the wool over your eyes so easily.

IF YOU CAN, i.e. if there's software that will work on your cellphone, RECORD YOUR CALLS to the other party and their insurer, if that's possible. From experience I tell you that insurers routinely lie through their teeth. Some are honest, sure, but when you can say "That's not what you said, do you want me to play the tape?" a lot of the liars get religion real fast. (I have no idea what the legalities of taping are out there.)

If there's no damage to the bilge, no water coming in, anchor rode still intact and attached, it should be safe to stay on board until you get a few things settled out. By all means, get an estimate from a yard and whatever way you work it out, make sure the other guy is going to pay whatever it comes to, not just the estimate. Plus your hotel/motel.

Take pictures. Now. From inside, outside, close, distant. Those are for your records, again in case there's any dispute down the line. When a boat is hit, the shock echoes all around the hull. The surveyor should literally be examining every bulkhead, every tab to the hull, every fitting on the standing rigging. It sounds like your keel and rudder should not be an issue and a haul not a concern--but ask the surveyor anyhow. Similarly, the anchor fittings have to be suspect, they took the strain.

If the other guy hears the estimate and his insurer starts waffling...funny how things can change. So try to document and record everything, and if the game changes, don't let them intimidate you. With insurers, you give them one carrot, once, and then switch to the stick.
 
#33 ·
"Typically, if the estimated cost of repairs is greater then 50% of the boats insured value, the insurance co. will deem it a Constructive (?) Total Loss, or CTL." Caleb makes a point BUT I believe that only applies to your own insurer, as a matter of policy statement. In this case, the other guy's policy doesn't matter, he damaged your boat and home, and it is usual under liability law that the damaged party must be "made whole" again.
...
HS,
Yes. I said I was not certain how this would work out since a 2nd parties insurance was really liable for the repairs and making things "whole" again for CK.

All I know is that I felt kind of screwed by the insurance racket even though we got a check for the face value for our boat (less then $7K minus the buy back fee of $800) as they would no longer insure my boat the next year.

Even after a short time of owning our boat I had also developed some emotional ties to her and did not want to take the insurance check to put towards another boat. I wanted to fix OUR boat and I ended up doing the fiberglass work to our hull/deck joint that got damaged among other repairs. I am now more irrationally and emotionally attached to my old boat then ever.

Hopefully CK will only have to do some kick boxing practice to help blow off some steam about this.

Hang in there CK.
 
#29 ·
Looks to me like you had a stansion ripped out at the base and had a hole knocked in your cabin top. it sucks, But emotions a side, West System and wood and some heavy Glass Mat. Dude sounds like he's going to have it fixed for you one way or the other, Plug up the hole with something so you don't get rained on and fix it. I'd rather be with my boat in a time like this than in a hotel thinking about it. My boat sunk twice on me. . it will end up being the strongest part of your boat when it's done. I'd be wicked pissed and then sad and the whole emotional sequence as well, but at the end of the day, you're O.K., the boat will be O.K. Good story to tell.
 
#30 ·
CK sorry to hear about your miss adventure. It dosen't look to bad mast is still standing. I have a couple of good yards you can chck out for repairs. First would be Crs marine out of Seattle, and the other are on Vancouver Island.
Delta Marine Services | Yacht Repair | Sidney BC
Jesperson Boat Builders - Canoe Cove Marina Vancouver Island
All three yards should give good repair advice, are you in Canada or the USA?
 
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