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rope & wire halyards vs all rope halyards

8K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  rhr1956 
#1 ·
I'm replacing the halyards on a Columbia 9.6 meter . The ones I'm replacing are rope & wire . If I replace them with all rope & eliminate the wire , will the halyard track through the wheels in the rigging ok . Is this even feasible ???
 
#2 ·
You usually need to replace the masthead sheave (wheel). Even if the groove is wide enough to accept the rope, the groove often so chewed and rough from having the wire run over it that your new rope halyard will get eaten up in no time.
 
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#3 ·
When we first started replacing the old wire, installed in 1988, the sheaves were indeed often a bit narrow for passing the fatter line. i.e. if you had wire spliced to 7/16 or 1/2" line tails, that sheave at the top of the mast might have been too narrow for new line.

Later, much stronger line came onto the market at more affordable prices.

For instance, our 34 footer, delivered with wire-to-rope halyards, has masthead sheaves that will pass 3/8" line with some friction, but work perfect with 5/16".
And since the 5/16" will hold fine in the original clutches and the housetop ST winches, the perfect solution was and is some T-900 hi tech line.

One other caveat -- after many decades of abrasion from the wire, your masthead might need to have the sheaves removed and turned (if alum.) or just replaced if the axles and sheaves are about worn out. That's a separate but needed part of long-term maintenance on any boat.

After getting bloodied on meat hooks on old wire, you'll love the changeover to all-line. After all, the only reason that wire was ever used was to get around the stretch in the older line materials.

Cheers.
:cool:
 
#4 ·
I would go with all rope as well. Modern lines are stronger, lighter, and have less stretch than wire. Right now my favorite for price vs performance is tapered dyneema/spectra lines, with the core just where the line hits the clutch and winch.

If done right, the prices should run about the same as low tech line, but with much greater performance.
 
#6 ·
Shorter boat, lower rig, and looks like less sail area than us. I cannot imagine needing line that large. Your boat, your choice, though. Even 3/8" would be large for your boat, IMHO. Since line prices go up by diameter, there will be a significant cost difference going from 5/16 to 7/16......

Either way, you will like having all-rope halyards.

:cool:
 
#7 ·
My boat, a 33-Morgan O.I., had rope/wire combination halyards that were older than some forum members. They were horrible, had splinters of wire sticking out that would rip your hands to shreds. I replaced them with standard, 1/2-inch-braided rope halyards and did not have to replace the sheaves.The sheaves were nothing special and everything worked out just fine. So, before spending a chunk of change on new sheaves, you may want to inspect those that are already installed - you may be pleasantly surprised.

Good Luck,

Gary :cool:
 
#8 ·
If you want to go that big you are probably looking at having to change a lot of equipment first. Few if any of your sheaves will fit line that big, clutches, self tailing winches, fair leads, ect. Will all need to be checked to see if they can handle line that size. Most likely not.

Secondly there is no reason to... A 7/16 dyneema line will have a breaking strength of Almost 22,000lbs.

Smaller line runs easier, and has less friction than oversized lines.


Again, tapered halyards are the way to go. You get the thicker size where you need it for ease of use, high strength, and not much more than cheap polyester stuff.
 
#10 ·
Just one more thing to think about...
Are the sheaves of large enough diameter for the hi-tec line?
This stuff doesn't like to be bent through a tight radius.
Might be worth having a word with the manufacturer to find out what the minimum sheeve diameter is for the size of rope you're using.
 
#11 ·
Mac,

Dyneema/spectra has the same bending radius as polyester, 8:1. But this is for best performance, most sheaves even with high tech lines are generally undersized. One of the advantages of high tech stuff is that because you can use smaller line for the same load, you get closer to the ideal.

The only line I know that absolutely must have the recommended bend is Dynex Duc, which is not generally used for standing rigging. It is so stiff it really does need the recommended radius, which is why Colligio makes special terminators for it. Otherwise strait replacement is generally considered ok.
 
#12 ·
I first sailed across the Pacific with rope halyards. The kept stretching and chafing thru, so I replaced them with wire, with a rope tail, in New Zealand in 74, and have had no problem with them since. I would never consider going back to all rope halyards.
A friend, who used stainless 7x19 wire, had to replace them very three years, because of broken strands. He only sailed weekends, and a three week summer holiday.I cruise full time, year round, and my current 1/4 inch 7x19 galvanized wire halyard will be ten years old by next spring. Despite having crossed the Pacific, it has no broken strands or meat hooks anywhere. Stick to galvanized . 1/4 inch is overkill, but far less likely to jump a sheave, than 3/16th. I tie the rope tail on thru a hard eye in the wire, no rope to wire splice needed. .
 
#14 ·
There is no question about replacing with all rope. Just do it using the same diameter as what you now have. The new line will certainly be stronger than what's there and will fit your hardware. Your masthead sheaves will most probably accommodate the line without modification but check it out as others have noted. In our case on both our Sabres, the sheaves were in good condition. If aluminum, they don't usually fail unless badly neglected or something is eating them (like countless meathooks)

Unless you are racing, I'd recommend VPC or Samson XLS. I would not use StaSet-X only because it's a difficult line to splice.
 
#15 ·
I have a lathe and can clean up the sheaves and put a rounded groove instead of a notch in any metal sheave and even the resin sheaves.

Let me know if someone wants to have this done.

I run stayset x for my Genoa halyard in un modified sheaves. I have the portion that goes over the top wrapped in electrical tape to ease the Uv damage since it is a roller furled.
 
#16 ·
I replaced the sheaves (and just about everything else) on my 30 yr old spar. to make the change from wire/rope to spectra. The sheaves needed to be a larger diameter but I got away with the same width.
At the bottom end we took out the old exit sheave boxes, welded aluminium flare tapers plates over the old sheave box holes so the halyards could then go straight to turning blocks at the foot of the mast.

I'll post before and after pics once I work out how to do it.
 
#17 · (Edited)
WHILE i have plenty of T900 on the race boat it is more of a low stretch line with NO creep

I just plain flat out disagree the wire rope combo works just fine on a boat like the Cal 29 with Dacron sails and it takes a decade to get any fishhooks
 
#20 · (Edited)
BS - your chafe issue needs to be fixed. You chose to ignore this problem and bandaide it with wire rope. If it works for you, great. But you still have a chafe problem at the masthead. If you believe it was from the rope stretching, then upgrade to low stretch line. That's exactly what we're talking about here.

chucklesR - I think most people have this problem. However, that is the core of the line that's not meant to be cleated, whiched, or put in a clutch. Would you strip sta-set x and complain about the parallel core construction?

Everyone, the core of these hightech lines are not meant to be cleated. Not in a cam cleat, clam, clutch, winched or even put on a horn cleat. The line is slippery and doesn't hold knots well or at all. They are meant to be used with a cover where they are cleated or winched.

Edit: the 8:1 is important if you're pushing the breaking strength of the line. A good splice will weaken the line less than 10%. Safety factor should be around 2:1 or more. A tight radius, like a luggage tag through the shackle might weaken the line by 50%, but who cares? Not too many boats getting close to the breaking strength of these lines. A luggage tag is no weaker than a normal splice and the radii are much tighter than the recommend 8:1.
 
#21 ·
I just removed, inspected the sheaves and changed out the bushings in all four of mine yesterday. They originally handled 1/8" wire but someone before me changed to rope. The area the rope run in is smooth as can be. I replaced all running rigging last year with 3/8" Sta-Set. The rope runs free and the sheaves do no damage at all. I'm sure you can do the same with no trouble. TIP: I connected the end of the old rope to the end of the new rope by stitching the ends together with gardeners wire. The wire is soft and flexible but strong enough to poke through the ropes core. Then I just pulled the old rope until I had the new rope in my hands. It took about 3 minutes for each halyard. Done!
 
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