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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising & Liveaboard Forum > Bluewater Sailboat Question
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Thread: Bluewater Sailboat Question Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
08-19-2012 09:34 PM
SeaSickFish
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

was meant to be South pacific not ocean ty for catching that 2 different beasts there
08-19-2012 08:11 PM
Scottyrocket
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSickFish View Post
there will be 4 perms and ofc a couple weekenders. it will serve as a primary home for 4. to start out we will be running the carribean for a while (since i live in florida) till we are all comfortable with the tasks that are needed on the ship and then i plan on going thro the panama and heading out into the southern ocean towards the Indonesian islands. this is why a bluewater boat is needed imo.
Not trying to be a smart ar$e here, but surely if you are transiting the Panama Canal and heading for Indonesia you don't need to go anywhere near the Southern Ocean.
08-19-2012 07:22 PM
Jeff_H
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

If these are your goals,
"Ok so heres a little bit of detail about what my situation is. I am 28 yrs old and I was recently in a motorcycle accident that has ruined my shoulder and wrist which has made me unable to work. In less then a month or so i will be receiving my settlement. And a dream of mine is to sail the world (big dream i know) anyway ive been window shopping for a while and tbh i am a bit overwhelmed with the different types of sailboats that are 30'+. I'm looking to spend around 20k for a boat then make the boat self sufficient. like a wind generator, water maker, monitor wind vane, etc. Now my question for today is what would be a good boat to do this with. i would prefer if i had atleast a 11' beam that is roomy enough to sleep 5-6 comfortably, and one that would be blue water capable." And

"There will be 4 perms and ofc a couple weekenders. It will serve as a primary home for 4. To start out we will be running the carribean for a while (since i live in florida) till we are all comfortable with the tasks that are needed on the ship and then i plan on going thro the panama and heading out into the southern ocean towards the Indonesian islands. this is why a bluewater boat is needed imo. "

Then none of these make any sense at all:
"New York 36, Santana 34, Santana 30, Schock 35 "

In reality these boats are okay for their purpose and were proposed by a sailboat maunfacturer pushing his company's wares...but which are by no stretch of the imagination even vaguely intended for what you are proposing to do. Faced with your objectives it seems like you should have a more focused list of criteria than you appear to have assembled.

For example, the traditional rule of thumb for distance voyaging is that the boat should have somewhere between 5,500 lbs and 11,000 lbs of displacement per person, with the upper end of the limit creeping up as better hardware and the desire for more space has prevailed. This displacement per crewman was generally a compromise between carrying enough supplies and consumables and what could be easily managed by the crew. That would suggest a boat with a displacement between 22,000 lbs 44,000 lbs. Boats with that kind displacement in sound and decent condition would be nearly impossible to locate within your $20,000 budget.

Similarly, you will need adequate tankage, storage, ground tackle handling. You will need good seaberths, an offshore suitable galley and head, and a pretty robust boat to take the kind of use and abuse that distance cruising implies. Nice as they are to have as a liveaboard, showers really do not make sense on an small distance cruiser (use too much water and take up too much space)

There was a time when there were older boats with suitable offshore designs that could be purchased moderately cheaply in good solid condition. But over time this stock of older boats have aged and in may cases become effectively worn out. Its is not that I am saying that the boat as a whole has worn out, but more that slowly, one by one, key components reach the end of their useful lifespan for the rigous environment of distance cruising and offshore.

It goes without saying that a boat consists of a broad collection of parts. Over time the components of rigs and spars, chainplates, bulkhead attachements, engine mounts, rudder and rudder posts and keel bolts or keel encapsulation, deck hardware, sails, galley components, plumbing, electrical systems, electronics, deck cores, slowly wear out.

It may be possible to cheaply buy one of these older offshore capable boats and fix it up, and otherwise adapt it to your needs, but as these boats have become progressively worn out, the costs of restoring and updating will potentially exceed the purchase price of the boat several times over.

The other issue is that vast majority of yachts built in fiberglass era were conceived as coastal cruisers or racer-cruisers. When you talk about doing long distance passage making, ideally the hull and rig and structure should be of a design conceived for offshore use. As a result there are far fewer choices out there in the remaining pool of older boats. So you are looking for that needle in the haystack, that grossly underpriced, offshore capable, distance cruiser, capable of supporting 4 people full time.

My point is not to say that what you want is hopeless. My point is to suggest that you more realistically define your goals, more realistically define your budget, and then develop a plan to accomplish your goals, including meeting your budget.

Respectfully,
Jeff
08-19-2012 12:57 PM
SeaSickFish
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

ty for your post guys ill look into these
08-19-2012 12:49 PM
mdi
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

Free Sailboat Comparison Websites:

Monohull Sailboats: Carl's Monohull Sail Calculator

Multihull Sailboats: Multihull Dynamics, Inc

Both websites help, neither is the end all or be all of sailboat evaluation, they both offer unique tools and views of sailboats. I am affiliated with the multihull website.
08-19-2012 12:32 PM
Dean101
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSickFish View Post
there will be 4 perms and ofc a couple weekenders. it will serve as a primary home for 4. to start out we will be running the carribean for a while (since i live in florida) till we are all comfortable with the tasks that are needed on the ship and then i plan on going thro the panama and heading out into the southern ocean towards the Indonesian islands. this is why a bluewater boat is needed imo.
I think with the info you provided, people will have a better understanding of your requirements and be able to give more appropriate advice. I won't recommend any specific boat because of my limited experience but I will suggest you look at a couple of websites that may give you some ideas to start from.

Mahina Expedition - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

and

Full List of Sailboats

I'm not affiliated with either site and only recommend them from a research perspective. I'm hoping to take off with my own dream in a few years and have been researching appropriate (for me at least) boats. Looking at the boats you're interested in in person gives you a much better feel for them. As mentioned before, if possible, getting some sea time on different boats will teach you more about what works and what doesn't than any book even if it's not a boat you may be interested in.

Best of luck with your search!
08-19-2012 12:14 PM
mdi
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by galaboat View Post
Take a look at the Wharram catamaran designs!
Thomas Firth Jones Multihull Voyaging - I have read the book literally more times than I can remember. At first glance the book appears to be an easy read, which it is, and a quick read. Firth's writing talents are so good that in your initial readings you miss the depth of information that is being quietly passed to the reader. It is only through additional readings after taking time to digest and assimilate what you "heard" the first time around, is it time to reread it.
08-18-2012 02:36 PM
SeaSickFish
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean101 View Post
I think you can find all kinds of boats that will fit the general requirements you stated in your OP. In order to help narrow down what would work best, you may want to mention a few specifics.

Will you have 5 or 6 people cruising with you at all times or will it mainly be overnight/weekend outings with friends while you and 1 or 2 others remain as a permanent crew? Also, what area will most of your sailing take place and where do you plan to go? That can be very important. You may also want to mention if the boat will be your primary home. Camping for a month or two and camping permanently are 2 separate horses.

The more information you can provide as to what you are looking for, the more specific advice you will get. There is a lot of experience floating around here and I dare say they can point you in a good starting direction.

A word of warning; In any group you will find those who are smart and those that are smart-a$$'s. It's the internet. So, welcome to Sailnet, have a thick skin, remember the ignore button, hang around for the good stuff, and enjoy!
there will be 4 perms and ofc a couple weekenders. it will serve as a primary home for 4. to start out we will be running the carribean for a while (since i live in florida) till we are all comfortable with the tasks that are needed on the ship and then i plan on going thro the panama and heading out into the southern ocean towards the Indonesian islands. this is why a bluewater boat is needed imo.
08-18-2012 02:29 PM
SeaSickFish
Re: Bluewater Sailboat Question

ty for the posts guys, ive checked out the boat reviews, helps a bit ty. when i said 30'+ emphasis on the + i meant i wouldnt want anything shorter since the last thing i would want is to encounter a tight quarters situation plus the fact that the southern ocean is a destination that i plan on going to. i wont be solo sailing fortunately. which is also why i wouldnt want anything smaller then 30 foot altho i would prolly be looking for something bigger then that when its all said and done. especially after reading these posts. my budget is not an issue, i set the limit at 20k approx. bc i know there are plenty of deals that i could find with this economy of seaworthy vessels and i think spending more then that is a bit absurd. especially since i will prolly have to install most of the gear out of my own pocket. ive yet to see one that had the stuff that i wanted already on it. ty for linking the salts corner table ill be reading it extensively. as i do any information that i have came across on this message board you guys have collectively given me plenty of insight.
08-18-2012 10:02 AM
galaboat
Bluewater Sailboat Question

Take a look at the Wharram catamaran designs!
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