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SSB- HAM commo

8K views 52 replies 18 participants last post by  RealityCheck 
#1 ·
Hello,
I am absolutely ignorant about this subject. I plan to cruise from the canal to Hawaii, and hope to use the SSB to communicate to a Ham operator in Ohio for position updates and such. From what I have been able to find out on the web, I cannot utillise the LSB (HAM) mode without an FCC license, and the unit I have has a whole bunch of modes. (It is an Icom IC-M710) So, I guess my question is, how do you go about ship to shore using a SSB and speak to HAM operators in the states without a ham license, or is it even posible to do this?
Also, what are these modes for: AFS, FSK, CW, R3E.
(I understand USB, LSB, and AM)
Any answers, advice, etc greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance.
 
#27 ·
sailingdog,

Well, many things don't make sense in this world. A ham license doesn't trump anything. It simply allows you to set up a station and to transmit on the allocated ham bands, according to the class of license you have earned. Amateur Extra Class licensees may use any amateur band/frequency. Lesser class licenses permit operation in subportions of the allocated amateur bands.

To operate on the marine ssb bands legally you need:

1. a RRO (no exam; you just pay a license fee);
2. a station license (same one covers all transmitting equipment...radar, EPIRB, etc.); and
3. a type-approved marine radio.

I really don't get why this is so difficult to understand. Maybe what's confusing for newcomers to the HF world is that ham equipment can often be made to operate on the marine bands, and some people do this, even though it is illegal. But the rules and guidelines are very clear: ham radios are intended for ham band use ONLY. Although, technically, they often can be modified to work on the marine HF bands, the aircraft HF bands, the CB band, etc., such use is ILLEGAL....it is illegal EVEN IF THE OPERATOR HOLDS A LICENSE TO OPERATE A RADIO ON THESE OTHER BANDS. Ham radios are legal to operate ONLY on the ham bands.

By "operate" I mean TRANSMIT. Obviously, anyone can LISTEN to any transmission in the HF range (and the VHF, UHF, LF, and other ranges also, except for cellular phone frequencies).

Marine radios are intended for marine band use ONLY (with the exception of those like the M-802 which have apparently gained type-acceptance for both marine and ham use).

Bill
 
#28 ·
sd-
Hams are generally prohibited from all one-way transmissions, better known as "broadcasts". A broadcast is one-way, a "communication" is two-way. The specific section of the FCC regulations governing this *does* allow limited one-way broadcasts as below (s.4 & 6) but I doubt they would consider one-way delivery of private messages to fall within the legal scope of them:

Part 97.111 :
(b) In addition to one-way transmissions specifically
authorized elsewhere in this Part, an amateur station may
transmit the following types of one-way communications:
(1) Brief transmissions necessary to make adjustments to the
station;
(2) Brief transmissions necessary to establishing two-way
communications with other stations;
(3) Telecommand;
(4) Transmissions necessary to providing emergency
communications;
(5) Transmissions necessary to assisting persons learning,
or improving proficiency in, the international Morse code;
(6) Transmissions necessary to disseminate information
bulletins;
(7) Transmissions of telemetry.

§97.113 Prohibited transmissions.

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(1) Communications specifically prohibited elsewhere in this
Part;
(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation,
direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise
provided in these rules;
(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control
operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications
on behalf of an employer. Amateur operators may, however,
notify other amateur operators of the availability for sale
or trade of apparatus normally used in an amateur station,
provided that such activity is not conducted on a regular
basis;
(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically
provided elsewhere in this Section; communications intended
to facilitate a criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers
intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise
provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or
false or deceptive messages, signals or identification;
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could
reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio
services.
(b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of
broadcasting, nor may an amateur station transmit one-way
communications except as specifically provided in these
rules; nor shall an amateur station engage in any activity
related to program production or news gathering for
broadcasting purposes, except that communications directly
related to the immediate safety of human life or the
protection of property may be provided by amateur stations
to broadcasters for dissemination to the public where no
other means of communication is reasonably available before
or at the time of the event.

I'm sporadically online this week and may be slow to make any replies.

Now, on the perennial "other hand"...<G>...If your shipboard party happen to know TWO hams, and those two hams happen to mention things about the shipboard party during the course of their communications...there's nothing wrong with that. So if BT & I were to have a ham chat about our friends en route to wherever, who would have a faster passage if they diverted north, or who should stop over in wherever, etc...Then that would be OK, because it would be a conversation--not a one-way broadcast. It might be a totally bogus conversation actually hiding a one-way broadcast, but it would appear to be legal.<G>

So there are ways and there are ways, and yes, enforcement of many things in this life is erratic. (Ever get a jaywalking ticket? But some people do.) Easier, still, do just get the proper equipment and permits, and use a legally sanctioned means of communications.
 
#29 ·
Crap,

I thought all you vaunted (and learned) types would be able to graciously and masterfully be able to eludicate me in a moment.
Apparently, I have yet again been caught in naivitae...
I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHOSE KNOWLEDGE CAN TRUMP ANY OTHERS'.
Maybe someone with practical and pragmatic knowledge will join us here?
For those of us that actually cruise the oceans and make passages, this well found and tactile (pragmatic) knowledge I seek (assuredly HARD-WON) would in practice, and disseminated in a less high handed manner (IMHO) portend towards the safety af all.
(What a pile...)
I personally do not care all that much for the rules/regs of the country with the highest incarceration rate in the history of mankind, as I do the safety and comfort of any crew I happen to have aboard. AGAIN- I will ask, once! more, how in the hell do you utilise this expensive piece of equipment (esp in emergency sit.)? How does one commo with the land? What actually works, for God's sake? (I got green crew.)
Thanks again...
 
#30 ·
Hang on you got some pretty reasonable replies. To answer your original questions. You can't have a direct radio conversation with a ham without a ham licence. The fancy modes I would ignore - though someone else told you what they are.
Our system in NZ is that you sit a RRTOC exam to operate a marine SSB. It is worth it to know what you are doing for Maydays, mayday relays etc. You also need to know your radio. We are required to display the licence and have a card showing others how to operate the radio for a distress signal. Reasonable and should be covered in a briefing.
You need to read up on it all. Try http://www.cruisingclub.org/seamanship/seamanship_offshore.htm which also gives ICOM operating instructions and other stuff..
You can get a free manual from http://www.msa.govt.nz/publications/radio/Radio_Handbook.pdf although it says coastal it is also offshore. You should carry something similar onboard. A ssb radio is required for offshore passages here because you need it for long distances.
To do your ham chats you need a ham licence which can be useful, but requires some study. In the US I understand it still requires basic morse whereas here it does not. A local group may well put out a guide to getting it.
 
#31 ·
Empressa,
My hard-won experience, spanning about 10 years of cruising and radio use on both marine and ham bands, would be this advice.

Stick to the marine bands.

Unless you are willing to learn and follow the rules ham bands will be useless to you, generate a lot of antagonism and maybe even prosecution.

Get a Marine only SSB transceiver and read the book that will come with it. That should be sufficient.

Goodbye.
 
#32 ·
Empresa-
"I personally do not care all that much for the rules/regs of the country"
"What actually works, for God's sake?"

You already got the answers. You wanna use what you got? You don't care about the rules? Great, just sit down and USE THE RADIO. Have a good time.

Ignore the answer you got from several of us--to just buy a satellite phone and use it. You think that because you bought a radio, you've got a god-given right to use it and have it work? ROFL, good luck with that. Throwing a tantrum and telling people you don't care about the rules of a society, any society, will just get you ostracized and eventually jailed. Lucky for you, the FCC would rather seize your boat and bank account than bother paying for your board in a jail. Of course, once you are outside the US, there are plenty of other national radio authorities who *would* rather put you in a cell for unauthorized radio operations, but we already know, you don't care about that.

Did I mention, have a good time?
 
#33 ·
Answer to your question(s)

empresa said:
Crap,

I thought all you vaunted (and learned) types would be able to graciously and masterfully be able to eludicate me in a moment.
Apparently, I have yet again been caught in naivitae...
I AM NOT INTERESTED IN WHOSE KNOWLEDGE CAN TRUMP ANY OTHERS'.
Maybe someone with practical and pragmatic knowledge will join us here?
For those of us that actually cruise the oceans and make passages, this well found and tactile (pragmatic) knowledge I seek (assuredly HARD-WON) would in practice, and disseminated in a less high handed manner (IMHO) portend towards the safety af all.
(What a pile...)
I personally do not care all that much for the rules/regs of the country with the highest incarceration rate in the history of mankind, as I do the safety and comfort of any crew I happen to have aboard. AGAIN- I will ask, once! more, how in the hell do you utilise this expensive piece of equipment (esp in emergency sit.)? How does one commo with the land? What actually works, for God's sake? (I got green crew.)
Thanks again...
Your question(s) have already been answered thoroughly - not sure what it is you don't understand??? As far as the green crew, if I were one of them, I'd be more concerned with the skipper...
 
#34 ·
in an emergency i would say this is ---- i do not have a license to operate this radio come arrest me that should get someone coming your way if that would help ....i would think that in a REAL emergency the fcc would not do more than slap your hand but the true issue is just like at the borders of the united states customs checks your equipment and send of the info to the fcc which in turns checks the records,,, then sends a letter asking for your license info
 
#35 ·
I just read a couple of days ago that the FCC has dropped its requirement of
morse code proficiency( limited) for its amateur license requirements.

That applies also to marine SSB/AM units and its licensing.

The new rule will become regulation sometime early Feb/late Jan 2007 although it has already been approved.


Happy for all of us!
 
#36 ·
Ruiz,

The FCC ruling applies ONLY to amateur (ham) radio. It will mean, when effective (probably in Jan 2007) that all classes of ham licenses can be had without the need for a Morse code proficiency exam.

There was never a Morse code requirement for marine SSB. There remains, however, the need for (a) type acceptance of the equipment; (b) operator license (no test); and (c) station license (no test).

Bill
WA6CCA
 
#37 ·
From:
Jack Richards, W4QVA
Public Information Officer
ARRL / ARES
Southern Florida Section
Palm Beach County
W4QVA@arrl.net

FOR IMMIDIATE RELEASE

December 16, 2006

MORSE CODE REQUIREMENT ELIMINATED


In an official Public Notice made Friday December 15, 2006 the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) announce the removal of the MORSE CODE REQUIREMENTS from all amateur license classes. The release of the actual Report & Order which should provide details of this action including the effective dates did not accompany the release.

This long awaited news to the amateur community is expected to help stimulate interest and entry of new people into the ranks of amateur operators by allowing a more streamlined pathway to access to all of the amateur radio bands. The FCC originally eliminated Morse code requirements for the entry level TECHNICIAN class license in 1991 which allowed operation without code knowledge only on the bands above 30 mhz. These frequencies quickly became popular for localized emergency operations and are the backbone of the Amateur Radio Emergency Service which serves so well in South Florida during hurricane and other emergency applications. Many of the ARES operators are of the Technician class.

Upon implementation, this new ruling will give Technician class operators immediate limited operating privileges in the other amateur bands as well as a more "knowledge only" based pathway to the General and Extra class licenses. This is important not only to the hobby but to the emergency services operations as it is these "lower" bands that have the long range "skip" properties that allow extreme long range DIRECT communications. The ability of emergency managers to utilize even Technician class licensees in these operations will give a new level of flexibility for emergency communications needs.

With this hurdle out of the way, it is hoped that many members of the general public who have always seen "Ham Radio" as interesting but just requiring too much dedication to achieve entry may now see this as an exciting new hobby that is easily within their reach, as well as being able to provide an active role in an emergency if desired. Local ham clubs are already planning training sessions for interested new participants for early 2007. Anyone interested in more information on Amateur Radio and becoming part of this great adventure is encouraged to visit www.arrl.org for general information. For information concerning local opportunities interested parties can email w4qva@arrl.net for further information.

###

 
#38 ·
Catalyst?
"but the true issue is just like at the borders of the united states customs checks your equipment and send of the info to the fcc which in turns checks the records" Don't believe it until someone at the FCC can tell you whose job it is to do that. The FCC doesn't care who owns equipment--they only care who operates it, and how. Unlike China, under the Federal Communications Act, basically any US citizen can own any radio receiver or transmitter they like. You just can't press the transmit button any time you please.
 
#41 ·
This is a revival of an old thread but it is of some interest to me too.

I was recently at sea with an Icom 718 which has a dial-up that allows any frequency to be used. I used this radio largely to communicate with weather people in the US and then, when closer to home, with the New Zealand maritime authorities and Coast Guard.

I simply used schedules and frequencies provided by these folks and had no issues using the radio. Only when I communicated with a person on a HAM frequency did he say to me that I wasn't authorised to be transmitting and I stopped.

What was of interest to me is that we had several "nets" that were supposedly available to yachts but we never heard one of them. Not ever. I believe that they must have all closed down.

It was said earlier in this thread that a HAM is not permitted to talk on marine bands but the weather man I used (some forumites will know of Don Anderson) is clearly a HAM and we talked often and long about things weather and otherwise. I'm sure that if there was any threat to Don from a licence perspective or to me from a legality perspective, he would've cut me short. He said to me that a marine band could be used to discuss anything to with the business of sailing but not for "sharing bread recipes". He also said that HAM was great for bread recipes but not for the sharing of official information like weather.

Anyway, long story short, I got a lot of valuable use on my HF radio and would certainly recommend one to any long distance sailor.

On the flipside - I also had Iridium on board and that has to be the absolutely best way to communicate at sea. Cost is an issue but when you want to talk to someone, you can. No problem.
 
#42 ·
Omatako-
"It was said earlier in this thread that a HAM is not permitted to talk on marine bands but the weather man I used (some forumites will know of Don Anderson) is clearly a HAM and we talked often and long about things weather and otherwise"
That is not correct. Forgive me if say it sounds like someone who is not a native English speaker made a translation error in telling you that, or simply chose their words badly.

A ham is not AUTHORIZED to communicate on Marine SSB bands. (Speaking for US FCC authorized hams operating in the US or elsewhere.) And, no one is authorized to communicate on Marine SSB bands unless they have a license, or they are operating under emergency conditions, where licenses are usually waived.
A ham certainly is PERMITTED to use a Marine SSB radio--if they have the appropriate Marine SSB license. Their ham license does not permit them to use the marine radio, except for certain emergency circumstances, when hams are essentially allowed (at least with a US FCC license and operating in the US) to do anything with anything in order to make essential emergency communications.

There's a big difference between being authorized, or permitted, or prohibited, by and among each licensed service.
 
#43 · (Edited)
For the life of me, I can't understand why people find it so difficult to understand that:

1. A ham license authorizes the holder to operate on the ham band segments which are permitted according to his/her class of license. Period. It does NOT authorize any other operation whatsoever. Period, again.

2. Operation of a HF marine radio aboard ship requires two things: (1) a ship station license which specifically authorizes HF operation; and (b) a radio operators license for EACH PERSON who uses that radio. There are several classes of operators license. The lowest class which allows you to operate is the Restricted Marine Radio Operator Permit.

3. No marine or aviation or any other service operators license authorizes the use of a radio on the ham bands; you need a HAM license for that.

4. In a bonafide emergency (life-threatening, not just out of gas or beer), any person can use any radio on any frequency to attract attention and get help.

I'm glad Omatako enjoyed his radio. However, it was ILLEGAL operation both on the marine bands (the 718 is a ham radio and is not type-accepted for marine band use) and on the ham bands (because he apparently doesn't have a ham license).

HelloSailor was right: the WX guy who said ham radio wasn't useful for official WX information was all wet. It's arguably more useful than marine SSB.

Does anyone care about illegal use of a radio? Sometimes. Some places. I don't think I'd routinely want to operate illegally in U.S. waters. Especially, not these days.

Bill
WA6CCA
S/V Born Free
 
#45 ·
no

If you are operating on an amateur radio band without a license, what call sign do you use ? On HAM bands you have to identify all of your transmissions, do you just not do that and start talking on the radio ?
Not if you want anyone to respond. Hams are rather sensitive to intruders and will not respond to you unless it is an obvious emergency. In answer to your question, and to state the obvious, if you don't have a license, you don't have a callsign
 
#47 ·
"If you are operating on an amateur radio band without a license, what call sign do you use ?"
Which call sign would you like to use today? One taken at random? One from the database of unassigned available calls? One from someone who has recently died?
Hams with internet access will often check out a call sign when they hear it (from a live database) and those with offline computers will often have an offline recent copy to work with. But many simply assume the call sign they are being given, is real.
So you can get away without a license for a while. The trick is, once you PO a few hams that way, they'll help the FCC track you down, and then the FCC will send you a demand letter asking for an explanation, a fine of up to $10,000 per incident, and a discussion about incarceration. Some people take the chance anyway.
 
#48 · (Edited)
I have read all this thread and my head is swimming, it would seem the Ham operators are defending their territory vehemently.

My question: I am on my boat in the south Pacific I have an SSB and sail mail. I converse with my father in Australia daily by email. My fathers neighbour is a Ham operator and has access to all the marine frequencies. What stops me from having voice contact with my dad on his equipment, or does my dad have to travel 15 miles to a friend’s boat and use his marine transceiver.

We are talking about scheduled contact for a short time each day????? Not some dweeb talking **** and being a PITA.
 
#49 ·
Simon,

Don't know for sure about the rules in OZ, but in the US your dad would have to go to a friend's boat to talk to you on the SSB. Shore station licenses for the marine frequencies are available, but quite hard to get--you have have a good reason for the station, like running a fleet of tugboats, and it takes a long time to get one.

The ham operators are quite helpful if you work within their system, but are afraid of losing their licenses and/or fequencies if people violate the rules. With the no-code licenses, its easier to get a ham license--even my non-technical wife just got her general ticket. If the Ozzie ham system is still making things hard, all you need to get a US license is a US address for them to send mail to.
 
#51 ·
CAM & DON
An Iridium phone is expensive to own and use, I intend to fit an Icom M-802 with AT140 auto tuner, using an SCS pactorIII modem also need DSC antena kit, total $4449 I will look into a Ham License.

Edit: even if the boat a get has an old SSB I will be upgradinig to the above set.
 
#52 ·
That's the gear I'm going to get after I get my Canadian licence. It's unusual that people seem to agree on gear so resoundingly, but if it's not an old Kenwood TS-50S rig, marine band sailor seem to own or to lust after the ICOM M-802 with the AT-140 tuner and a Pactor III modem. Add a GAM antenna and you have the default choice, it seems.
 
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