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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Cruising and Sailing with Children > My son's first 'car'...
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Cruising and Sailing with Children All things sailing and kids related, from safety to life aboard.


Thread: My son's first 'car'... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-06-2013 10:42 AM
remetau
Re: My son's first 'car'...

We had a couple here that have 5 kids. When coming into the marina, they would send out the oldest kids (I think the oldest was 10) in the dink to the marina to get the lines ready.

Kids raised on boats know the safety issues involved and I find that they are much more confident and usually intelligent than most of their land based counterparts.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, and congrats to him. How fun!
I but he can find a way to connect a large grill to the tube.
03-06-2013 10:26 AM
Cruisingdad
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I dont want nessessarily take this into a serious discussion but I strongly disagree. I dont like that blanket statement. I understand you feelings in the PN and the water temp, but sending kids out in a dinghy without wet suits would be just as serious. Having their motor conk out in a curent filled channel could be s serious situation

A motor is not a necessarily a safety item. I can encourage a false sense of security also. Many times I have seen kids with motors stray far away from there home areas in inflatables or small skiffs...why...because they can,,,the motor will take them there. They will tend to travel out further because they have the motor and we all know motors stop working. Most kids especially of today dont have a clue how to fix a motor.

Also consider that gasoline is dangerous and explosive. Propellers can cut limps and fingers off.

I know that a sail only is not necessarily safe in all situations either, but I do not beleive a motor inherently makes things safer. Especially with younger kids. Liken a little to a bike. Which is safer, and foot driven bike or a motorcycle.

I know you are a thoughfull attentive boater and would never put your kids in harms way and it may not apply to them. I am sure you have gone over a myriad of safety situations with them from fire, handling gasoline, and what to do when they motor dies or doesnt start. I am sure they have pfds, and a portable VHF. Do the have PRB if they travel a long way? I would assume they have with them everything you would have if you were taking a long dinghy ride.

BTW I did put my daughter on a sailboat ( Hobie 16) without a motor. I lived on the beach in a shore community and she went as far as 3 miles out into the ocean whenh she sailed. She had a ditch bag of sorts with a communication device. She needed to go out if I wasnt there with other boats around her also vs doing it alone.

Here in the Chesapeake and we see in NE when we go north you see many sailing schools teaching kids and kids sailing without motors

I agree with Smacky about helicoptering and I certainly think you can overprotect them so as to smother them and you want them to learn their independence so I am not talking about that.,
Dave,

I am not sure if you read the whole thread, but the poster I was talking to was talking about liveaboard sailboat for his kids. That was my reference on the motor. And I stand behing my comment that a motor on that type of vessel makes it safer. Not safe... but safer. A sailboat is restricted in its ability to move by wind which cannot be controlled. I understand that motors also have restricting aspects (breakdowns, fuel, etc), but they provide another means of moving. It gives you options... and options are good.

The failure of the motor in your reference (kids getting a long way from shore or where they should be) was not the fault of the motor, or the boat, it was the fault of parenting and supervision. I will say that the same thing could have happened in a boat without a motor. However, with the motor they at least might get back where without it, should the wind die or a storm kick up, they might be in a lot more trouble.

I have no problem with hobies and sunfish, etc. In fact, I love them. So that you know, we ditched the tender for two kayaks with sails (and no motors). A hobie is my favorite boat to sail, incidentally. I would love my kids to hop on one (and they have, and a sunfish). No, they do not need a motor. But if they were going to live on a Hobie (which they couldn't), I would rather they had a motor with the option of being able to use it than the other way around.

Brian
02-23-2013 09:38 AM
utchuckd
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
We went around that damn circle 20 times as she locked up. I was getting dzzy when I just blurted out. Get agrgressive and pick a road. She had come of age and another " Jersey Driver" was made.
Hey, look kids, there's Big Ben! (because somebody had to)
02-05-2013 02:18 PM
chef2sail
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Chef, it is a dangerous world out there. Kids get killed in swimming pools (nice warm ones with lifeguards) at beaches on bicycles and chasing balls into the street. Not to mention, playing football, even if the concussion doesn't catch up with them.

And if you've ever heard how dangerous SCHOOLS are. School crossing guards. School zones. Seat belts and matrons on busses, where zippers and drawstrings get caught in the doors. Hell, if you want to save young lives, first you have to BAN SCHOOLS, they create all sorts of situations that get kids killed. Or addicted to drugs. Mandatory home schooling, that's the only way to keep them safe, in rubber rooms.

At least that dink will help to keep the kids away from schools, school zones, and school busses, and that's way more important than worrying about where the dink might go.
Hello,

I think you are missing what I was saying. I am all for kids having outside activiites including dinghies with engines, cars, everything you mentioned. I was not overly protective to my daughter and she is quite an outdoors person having done an few Outward Bound adventures including climbing the Andes . I was the least overprotective dad there is . I totally agree that these healthy activies are important to keeping them from swerving potentially into the wrong lane.

I also have huge respect for CD and his time he spends with his kids who he obviously loves and is a great role model to. I wasnt saying that and if it came across that way it was unintended. he is an inspiration and I love seeing his pictures and hearing his stories and watching his grow up with their dad.

Unfortunately sometimes when you are cautionary or dont agree with what some says here it becomes that you are saying the other person is doing it wrong. Thats not what I said. I also said I agreed with Smacks reference to helicoptering parents. I certainly wasnt that. I didnt agree with his statement that a motor was inherently safer than non motor. You can make both equally safe or unsafe. Knowing CD the way I do his son is a safe boater, opne because his father is (CD) and to becasue his father is a teacher and watches out for his kids welfare.

My statement is that having a motor on a boat doesnt make it inherently safer by just having it there. That was my point If you visit Annapolis harbor any day you will see humndreds of kids out there racing, practicing playing on small sailboats without motors. My first sailboat I owned was a motorless Hobie cat. I sailed it of the beach every day into the surf of the Atlantic Ocean. With that came precautions ( handheld/ compass/ ditch bag). If I sailed that in the PN other precautions would also be in place such as wet/ dry suit.
02-05-2013 12:45 PM
hellosailor
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Chef, it is a dangerous world out there. Kids get killed in swimming pools (nice warm ones with lifeguards) at beaches on bicycles and chasing balls into the street. Not to mention, playing football, even if the concussion doesn't catch up with them.

And if you've ever heard how dangerous SCHOOLS are. School crossing guards. School zones. Seat belts and matrons on busses, where zippers and drawstrings get caught in the doors. Hell, if you want to save young lives, first you have to BAN SCHOOLS, they create all sorts of situations that get kids killed. Or addicted to drugs. Mandatory home schooling, that's the only way to keep them safe, in rubber rooms.

At least that dink will help to keep the kids away from schools, school zones, and school busses, and that's way more important than worrying about where the dink might go.
02-05-2013 10:26 AM
chef2sail
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Hi Elspru,

On a completely different subject, I personally would not put my kids on a sailboat without a motor. A motor is a serious safety item. Reality is that up in the PNW (yes, we lived there for over a year and sailed the sound), the winds are incredibly light, the currents are very swift, and the water is deadly cold. I can think of a thousand reasons to have a motor, but can't come up with a single reason not to have one.
Take care,

Brian
I dont want nessessarily take this into a serious discussion but I strongly disagree. I dont like that blanket statement. I understand you feelings in the PN and the water temp, but sending kids out in a dinghy without wet suits would be just as serious. Having their motor conk out in a curent filled channel could be s serious situation

A motor is not a necessarily a safety item. I can encourage a false sense of security also. Many times I have seen kids with motors stray far away from there home areas in inflatables or small skiffs...why...because they can,,,the motor will take them there. They will tend to travel out further because they have the motor and we all know motors stop working. Most kids especially of today dont have a clue how to fix a motor.

Also consider that gasoline is dangerous and explosive. Propellers can cut limps and fingers off.

I know that a sail only is not necessarily safe in all situations either, but I do not beleive a motor inherently makes things safer. Especially with younger kids. Liken a little to a bike. Which is safer, and foot driven bike or a motorcycle.

I know you are a thoughfull attentive boater and would never put your kids in harms way and it may not apply to them. I am sure you have gone over a myriad of safety situations with them from fire, handling gasoline, and what to do when they motor dies or doesnt start. I am sure they have pfds, and a portable VHF. Do the have PRB if they travel a long way? I would assume they have with them everything you would have if you were taking a long dinghy ride.

BTW I did put my daughter on a sailboat ( Hobie 16) without a motor. I lived on the beach in a shore community and she went as far as 3 miles out into the ocean whenh she sailed. She had a ditch bag of sorts with a communication device. She needed to go out if I wasnt there with other boats around her also vs doing it alone.

Here in the Chesapeake and we see in NE when we go north you see many sailing schools teaching kids and kids sailing without motors

I agree with Smacky about helicoptering and I certainly think you can overprotect them so as to smother them and you want them to learn their independence so I am not talking about that.,
02-05-2013 09:14 AM
chef2sail
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Well, this was more fun than I thought it would be. My oldest just got his first car. Do you remember your first car? I am 41 and my first car was a 1959 Ford F150. It wasn't the classic version either, if you know what I mean! But I learned a lot and that made me able to fix problems when they came up.

Chase's first car won't be any different. In fact, it is the old family car. It's an Avon/WM 310 HPIB. I won't tell you my true feelings for it (other than it has been sitting happily in storage for some years now). I even ripped out a nice corner of it on a coral head and its patch is almost as large as the dink!!! Powering it is a wonderfully cursed 6 hp Mercury 4 stroke (called a 4 stroke because that is how many times I kick it with my foot when it craps out). But you want to know what? He didn't care. Our little project together.

Hope he learns as much about cars and engines as I was forced to... and enjoys every minute of it. THe rest of the dock did. We had many LA's coming out to shoot pics of it and cheer him on as he splashed it.

Brian

PS His reward for getting his boat was passing his boating test in the 90-100%. Kids in FL must take a boaters education course to operate any motor boat. He did it. I find him schooling me on some things now.



Hmmmm...Thats great

So your are making him a powerboater. His first boat is a powerboat. Wheres the grill? Laughing here. Congrats to him hell love it.

Its great he loves the water, but of course you model that so well. My daughter who now owns a C27, Her first was a Lightning then bought our old Hobie 16 from me.

You realize you have gotten older when you are sitting in the right hand seat having your child drive you.

When I read the title I thought real car. Ill never forget teacher her how to drive. She is 4'11 99 lbs. and needed a pillow to sit on. At the time I lived in Ocean Vity , NJ amd the exit from the island ran into a major circle. Circle in NJ are not just bengin rotaries like NE, they are often 3 major roads feeding into them. She had drivers ed so I was just sitting in the right seat giving her some practice time and decided to head to the Garden Styate Parkway to get hiway experience.

As we are heading out the old Ocean City Causeway and go over the second intercoastal bridge the circle is dead in front off us. She calls out to me.."Dad I have never been in a circle before what do I do"? I told her get in and get out but cars in the circle have the right of way. We went around that damn circle 20 times as she locked up. I was getting dzzy when I just blurted out. Get agrgressive and pick a road. She had come of age and another " Jersey Driver" was made.
02-04-2013 06:54 PM
mad_machine
Re: My son's first 'car'...

my first boat was a minifish with a sunfish rig... was a lot of fun and fast little boat for a 13 year old...

as for the statistics of drowning in an open boat.. how many of those people who drowned were found with their fly open? I understand that the majority of fishermen who drown were trying to take a pee when they fell overboard
12-13-2012 09:08 AM
Cruisingdad
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by elspru View Post
Hmmm, ya likely many of those statistics do pertain to the fast moving boats, it seems that truly speed is the main issue. In terms of the statisitics they don't include ski-boats or personal watercraft, however they may include small open fishing and recreational "racing" boats.
Unmotored inflatables are some of the safest, though I guess if the motor doesn't push it much beyond 7 knots it should be as safe as sailing.

In terms of sailing, I can't imagine how a thunderstorm could roll in without wind, so I don't really see that as a plausibile issue. Similarly to a motorboat it does require expeirence to operate, though you can't run out of fuel, so that's an added bonus. The power of the sailboat actually goes up proportionally to the wind speed, so always have enough power to get home. Also I wasn't really recommending a small sailing dinghy but a sailing yacht i.e. greater than 21 feet, even 22 is good, they can trade up later.

It's better than a college fund I think, since it's a home, a vehicle, and means of livelihood. Also much cheaper *shrugs*. I've been to university, and to be honest, it was dull, I can learn a lot more from the internet. Only good part about it was I found my spouse there.

I know my parents tried to kick me out as soon as I stopped taking university seriously, same with my spouse, so perhaps you'll find yourself in a similar situation of wanting to eject them from the nest one day. At which point getting them a sailing yacht is a great idea. I had to do a bunch of deep magic to get an apartment and stable income.

Also the sooner your kids get their own place, and livelihood,
the sooner you can have grandkids and such :-).
Though ya, of course it's up to you, and your soon to be adult children.

I'm happy to hear that they do wear their life jackets when using the inflatables :-).
18-24 is the er most tender time for statistics... :-S all the hormones and identity crisis.
It's the time I was most interested in finding out what I was seperate from parents and external influence.
Though I dono, maybe other people don't go through that phase?
hmmm, so it's an Erikson's stage os psychosocial development,
Erikson's stages of psychosocial development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

guess this is mildly OT, but I think it's related to why I think they should at least have the opportunity to have a full fledged sailboat yacht, rather than a mere dinghy.

"The problem of adolescence is one of role confusion—a reluctance to commit which may haunt a person into his mature years. Given the right conditions—and Erikson believes these are essentially having enough space and time, a psychosocial moratorium, when a person can freely experiment and explore—what may emerge is a firm sense of identity, an emotional and deep awareness of who he or she is."

Yes this is what worked for me, I was very confused, having all these demands from my parents, of what to do, and what they expected of me, it was only after quiting university, and being a hermit in the basement for a year or so, that I figured out what I wanted from life, that was seperate from what my parents or society wanted from me. Now I live a pretty happy life if I do say so myself.

My main concern I guess, is that boats don't have much room, to do a hermitage like that.
Typically this definition of identity happens between 13-19 though may be till mid to later 20's:

"Erikson does note that the time of Identity crisis for persons of genius is frequently prolonged. He further notes that in our industrial society, identity formation tends to be long, because it takes us so long to gain the skills needed for adulthood’s tasks in our technological world. So… we do not have an exact time span in which to find ourselves. It doesn't happen automatically at eighteen or at twenty-one. A very approximate rule of thumb for our society would put the end somewhere in one's twenties"

With a sailboat yacht of their own, they'll be able to discover who they are, have more peer relations, and things like that, allowing them to become more whole and complete beings. Though since the onset of these identity crisis' things does usually happen later in our industrial societies, it's probably best to consult with them when they are ready. Sure moving into the basement isn't the same as getting a new boat, but it practicall was, as I had my own bathroom, kitchen, and place to throw parties for friends. During the 13-19 years it's peers and role models which are the significant relationships.
I threw parties every few weeks, starting around 13 or 14.
It's similar for my almost 16yr brother, his friends seem much more important than either myself or my parents, he plays video games with his peer friends all the time, as he's in some gifted program where they all have too many extra-curricular activities to have person-to-person interacitons. so ya there is a bit of generation gap but *shrugs* still same stage really.
Regarding the comment about thunderstorms and wind, that is corect. You get wind... too much. It is not unusual to have nothing (dead calm) before the storm then get 50-60 kts. Half of that can knock down a 2X footer. Also, most small 2x footer sailboats are notoriously tender and are easily swamped. For example, the last boat I remember sinking was a Catalina 22, got caught in a thinderstorm, broached, knocked down, cockpit filled with water followed by the cabin, and down she went. It goes about that fast too.

Anyways, all that is a long way off for you. I wouldn't even bother thinking about it, unless you are considering getting a sailboat without engine for your family. I have to assume you are fairly young if you are just now starting your family, so let me say that your interests ad outlooks on life will change vastly over the next many years. Kids have a way of hastening that too.

For now, just look forward to having your kiddo in this world and enjoy the sleep and freedom you can get before he/she comes. Cuz let me tell ya brother, afterwards, sleep will become more precious to you and your wife than food and even the simplest of things you took for granted are now major chores. That being said, having kids is the most wonderful part of my life. Hope it is for you two also.

Brian
12-13-2012 01:07 AM
elspru
Re: My son's first 'car'...

Hmmm, ya likely many of those statistics do pertain to the fast moving boats, it seems that truly speed is the main issue. In terms of the statisitics they don't include ski-boats or personal watercraft, however they may include small open fishing and recreational "racing" boats.
Unmotored inflatables are some of the safest, though I guess if the motor doesn't push it much beyond 7 knots it should be as safe as sailing.

In terms of sailing, I can't imagine how a thunderstorm could roll in without wind, so I don't really see that as a plausibile issue. Similarly to a motorboat it does require expeirence to operate, though you can't run out of fuel, so that's an added bonus. The power of the sailboat actually goes up proportionally to the wind speed, so always have enough power to get home. Also I wasn't really recommending a small sailing dinghy but a sailing yacht i.e. greater than 21 feet, even 22 is good, they can trade up later.

It's better than a college fund I think, since it's a home, a vehicle, and means of livelihood. Also much cheaper *shrugs*. I've been to university, and to be honest, it was dull, I can learn a lot more from the internet. Only good part about it was I found my spouse there - admitedly during a brief period after quiting to find myself for a year.

I know my parents tried to kick me out as soon as I stopped taking university seriously, same with my spouse, so perhaps you'll find yourself in a similar situation of wanting to eject them from the nest one day. At which point getting them a sailing yacht is a great idea. I had to do a bunch of deep magic to get an apartment and stable income.

Also the sooner your kids get their own place, and livelihood,
the sooner you can have grandkids and such :-).
Though ya, of course it's up to you, and your soon to be adult children.

I'm happy to hear that they do wear their life jackets when using the inflatables :-).
18-24 is the er most tender time for statistics... :-S all the hormones and identity crisis.
It's the time I was most interested in finding out what I was seperate from parents and external influence.
Though I dono, maybe other people don't go through that phase?
hmmm, so it's an Erikson's stage os psychosocial development,
Erikson's stages of psychosocial development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

guess this is mildly OT, but I think it's related to why I think they should at least have the opportunity to have a full fledged sailboat yacht, rather than a mere dinghy.

"The problem of adolescence is one of role confusion—a reluctance to commit which may haunt a person into his mature years. Given the right conditions—and Erikson believes these are essentially having enough space and time, a psychosocial moratorium, when a person can freely experiment and explore—what may emerge is a firm sense of identity, an emotional and deep awareness of who he or she is."

Yes this is what worked for me, I was very confused, having all these demands from my parents, of what to do, and what they expected of me, it was only after quiting university, and being a hermit in the basement for a year or so, that I figured out what I wanted from life, that was seperate from what my parents or society wanted from me. Now I live a pretty happy life if I do say so myself.

My main concern I guess, is that boats don't have much room, to do a hermitage like that.
Typically this definition of identity happens between 13-19 though may be till mid to later 20's:

"Erikson does note that the time of Identity crisis for persons of genius is frequently prolonged. He further notes that in our industrial society, identity formation tends to be long, because it takes us so long to gain the skills needed for adulthood’s tasks in our technological world. So… we do not have an exact time span in which to find ourselves. It doesn't happen automatically at eighteen or at twenty-one. A very approximate rule of thumb for our society would put the end somewhere in one's twenties"

With a sailboat yacht of their own, they'll be able to discover who they are, have more peer relations, and things like that, allowing them to become more whole and complete beings. Though since the onset of these identity crisis' things does usually happen later in our industrial societies, it's probably best to consult with them when they are ready. Sure moving into the basement isn't the same as getting a new boat, but it practicall was, as I had my own bathroom, kitchen, and place to throw parties for friends. During the 13-19 years it's peers and role models which are the significant relationships.
I threw parties every few weeks, starting around 13 or 14.
It's similar for my almost 16yr brother, his friends seem much more important than either myself or my parents, he plays video games with his peer friends all the time, as he's in some gifted program where they all have too many extra-curricular activities to have person-to-person interacitons. so ya there is a bit of generation gap but *shrugs* still same stage really.
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